Instigator / Pro
35
1565
rating
6
debates
83.33%
won
Topic
#1072

Richard Nixon was the Best President of the United States

Status
Finished

The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.

Winner & statistics
Better arguments
15
12
Better sources
10
10
Better legibility
5
5
Better conduct
5
0

After 5 votes and with 8 points ahead, the winner is...

bmdrocks21
Parameters
Publication date
Last updated date
Type
Standard
Number of rounds
4
Time for argument
One week
Max argument characters
10,000
Voting period
One month
Point system
Multiple criterions
Voting system
Open
Contender / Con
27
1485
rating
91
debates
46.15%
won
Description

I will argue that Nixon was the best president of the US. My opponent must pick a president that they believe was better for this debate. Events leading to their presidency(ie. previous political career, humanitarian work, etc.) may be used as points and are encouraged if context is needed. Attacks against character are allowed, but should be kept to just 2-3 points. This is mainly based on policy.
Round 1: Opponent and I state our president and the main 3-5 points we will emphasize in the debate.
Round 2: We will argue the aforementioned main strengths of our president.
Round 3: We will discuss the negative points of our opponent's president.
Round 4: We rebut the negative points and iterate the main strengths of the president.

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@Patmos

I'm trying to start the Nixon gang. Coolidge and Teddy are good, too, though

Where's the Calvin Coolidge gang? Massive economic growth, 1/3 reduction in national debt. Restored the integrity of the presidency after the scandal-ridden Harding administration, zero scandals of his own (indicative of high moral character)

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@Barney

I appreciate you taking the time to sift through my debate!

---RFD (1 of 4)---
Interpreting the resolution:
Nixon > Roosevelt

Gist:
Two great men, but unfortunately the comparison stopped with the negatives of Roosevelt uncontested, and all positives of Nixon unchallenged by any negatives.

1. Civil Rights (1) vs Morals (1)

N. Nixon helped minorities enough to get MLK as a character witness.

R. Roosevelt going to law school and being disabled just doesn’t compare (don’t get me wrong, he was still a badass)

Anti-R. Did not listen to his expert advisers. Engaged in propaganda (didn’t they all?). Racist who sent 122k people to concentration camps, of whom 70k were full citizens; further they were directly robbed by the government and not economically reimbursed.

2. Saved His Political Party (2)
This should have been called unified the nation. The continued presence of any one political organization seems unimportant as people would almost certainly just organize similarly under another banner...

N. In short: He was “a pragmatist who would refuse to let ideology get in the way of progress.”
During the election, he won all but two states, which is quite the appeal to popularity. Even Obama could not unify us that well.

3. Environment (3) vs Environment (4)

N. Creating the EPA is quite the accomplishment. As is the Clean Air Act.

R. Ending the dust bowl seems like a divine intervention.

---RFD (2 of 4)---
4. Economics (4) vs Economics (2)

N. “reduced the deficit by over 70%” is amazing. Getting us off the gold standard is a ballsy move I cannot imagine modern presidents pulling off were it still in place.

R. Getting our money back into banks where it can enjoy the multiplier effect of spending (something not spelled out in the debate, but still worth mentioning for refinement of future arguments), is beyond words. Ending child labor and having a minimum wage, are also amazing (I believe N. raised the minimum wage, so neat to see how one followed in the footsteps of the other).

Anti-R. Child labor was already low (mostly rural, where they were often working family farms...), stuff about blacks (it’s dropped so pro gets it, but I feel the need to point out this not being a good interpretation o the data, even if utilized well as an argument). Ended up causing more unemployment worsening the great depression.

---RFD (3 of 4)---
5. Foreign Policy (5) vs Foreign Policy (2) and Superpower (5)
The superpower sounds good, but it is foreign policy worded for impact.

N. Ended one of our worst wars, got trade with the second world resumed, etc.

R. Got us into a necessary war, and presumably shaped the founding of the U.N. as a tool for the USA.

Anti-R. Speaking of WWII on the moral point, it came up that he rejected 1k Jewish refugees fleeing the holocaust, sending them back where many died. Plus empowered Russia with covering up some of their warcrimes, making them an increased threat to the USA. ... Pro continued by linking him to causing Pearl Harbor (on NPR I’ve listened to some stuff about them trying to declare war just before the attack, but us intentionally delaying their declaration to play victim... Not excusing their actions, just pointing out a funny historical detail about our role). And on the superpower note (I hoped this was coming), the simple fact that we did not have fighting on our soil causing our comparative economic strength, to which whomever happens to be president at the time does not get credit.

---RFD (4 of 4)---

---

Arguments: pro
See above review of key points. Honestly, I felt that just on the strengths Nixon would win this, but his negatives are within living memory so may have cost him worse in R3 (I can’t imagine what would compare to the concentration camps, but something could have been argued as worse).

Sources: tied
I really dislike when things are posted outside the debate. I strongly suggest highlighting the intent to do that within the debate description... Actually I really suggest just increasing the character limit to hold them (and probably using a few less to get the gist across...).

S&G: tied
Both were fine.

Conduct: pro
Two rounds forfeited, vs the source issue... Had con raised the character limit violation, I would leave this tied, as is I’ll discount one of the forfeits, but that leaves a forfeit standing.

In case anyone is curious, here's a snapshot of my RFD draft at the end of R2...

1 Civil Rights (1) vs Morals (1)
N. Nixon helped minorities enough to get MLK as a character witness.
R. Roosevelt going to law school and being disabled just doesn’t compare (don’t get me wrong, he was still a badass)

2 Saved His Political Party (2) vs
This should have been called unified the nation. The continued presence of any one political organization seems pretty unimportant as people would just organize similarly under another banner...
N. In short: He was “a pragmatist who would refuse to let ideology get in the way of progress.”
During the election, he won all but two states, which is quite the appeal to popularity. Even Obama could not unify us that well.
R.

3 Environment (3) vs Environment (4)
N. Creating the EPA is quite the accomplishment. As is the Clean Air Act.
R. Ending the dust bowl seems like a divine intervention.

4 Economics (4) vs Economics (2)
N. “reduced the deficit by over 70%” is amazing. Getting us off the gold standard is a ballsy move I cannot imagine modern presidents pulling off were it still in place.
R. Getting our money back into banks where it can enjoy the multiplier effect of spending (something not spelled out in the debate, but still worth mentioning for refinement of future arguments), is beyond words. Ending child labor and having a minimum wage, are also amazing (I believe N. raised the minimum wage, so neat to see how one followed in the footsteps of the other).

5 Foreign Policy (5) vs Foreign Policy (2) and Superpower (5)
The superpower sounds good, but it is foreign policy worded for impact.
N. Ended one of our worst wars, got trade with the second world resumed, etc.
R. Got us into a necessary war, and presumably shaped the founding of the U.N. as a tool for the USA.

My opponent proved my point: Nixon did nothing wrong!

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@David

One day left, heads up.

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@Wylted

I had a debate on Israel with whiteflame, if you ever want to read a novel. Only one person (blamonkey) allocated points, and I lost :/

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@bmdrocks21

The Jews like us supporting their foreign policy by having out men die for things that are of no benefit to the United States. As long as they are enemies with those countries, our leaders under the influence of their campaign contributions and control of popular media, we will be forced to have enemies that would mean us no harm otherwise.

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@Wylted

Yeah, I don't really see any benefit to being enemies with these nations. The only option to change anything at that point is to go to war. If we treat them with respect and open negotiations, you can achieve good results without spending trillions and sending thousands of soldiers to die.

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@bmdrocks21

Obama caufht shit from Hillary for saying he would have a dialogue with dictators as well. They say it showed his inexperience. It is completely retarded for any head of state to be opposed to dialogue with another head of state. Kim Jung UN was visibly frightened sitting across from Trump. Putin seems to be putting on a front in front of Trump. No Democrat could get this type of respect. They don't understand that his reckless demeanor gives him an advantage over every head of state he sits across from. Reagan used the same tactic. Pretending he had dementia, intentionally spreading rumors of it so they would think they were dealing with an unpredictable dangerous entity. Democrats are scared Putin has black mail material on Trump. They are too stupid to know Trump is the real teflon don and there could be footage of him killing a 5 year old and fucking its severed head and he would still come put looking like roses.

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@Wylted

Did you know about what they did about his Supreme Court pick? They had signs against each of his picks premade. They found a stockpile. They oppose him just to oppose him..... Not to mention the "meeting with dictators" narrative. They praised Obama for going to Cuba...

The Democrats already had a memo sent out to each other that said to oppose him on every front, even on policies they agree with, so pretty clear they are pieces of shit

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@Wylted

Yeah, Trump is up there. Everything good like the economy (2 years later) they try to take credit, but the child separation and the little camps set up under Obama are Trump's fault. A little consistency would be nice

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@bmdrocks21

I think Andrew Jackson was better. Richard Nixon was pretty good though. Almost as Good as Trump

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@Wylted

Do you agree that my main man Nixon is the best?

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@Alec

I will join you in the top ten. I am done fucking around.

This debate needs to regain its hype.

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@bmdrocks21

I'm rooting for you because I want more conservatives in the top 10. I'm currently the only one.

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@Alec

Thanks, my dude. Even though I'm rooting for "Mr. Watergate"?

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@bmdrocks21

Good luck. I'm rooting for you.

This debate could use some comments :P