Junk Food Tax
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After 2 votes and with 6 points ahead, the winner is...
- Publication date
- Last updated date
- Type
- Standard
- Number of rounds
- 5
- Time for argument
- Two days
- Max argument characters
- 10,000
- Voting period
- Two weeks
- Point system
- Multiple criterions
- Voting system
- Open
A nice debate about the JF Tax, if it's practical, and should we implement it into the law system of today.
Will it hurt the poor?
Both sides agree that it will hurt the poor, but pro claims it will not be by that much, con claims it would be significant.
Con substantiates how much it will hurt the poor, and states that it would constitute a 17% increase for them. I’m not convinced by the math, but the idea that the poor will be hurt by the tax is compelling.
Pro does almost nothing in justifying the primary premise and benefit of the tax - which is to change behaviour, there is no detailing of how practical it is, how the poor could change their behaviour and but healthier food to save money.
I fact pro doesn’t seem to actually offer any health benefits or intent behind the tax of any kind. This lack of clear objective benefit significantly harms pros case.
That it eliminates the income tax is likewise unwarranted. Pro doesn’t show how much it will take in, how much it would reduce income tax by, how how much it would reduce overall tax burden of everyone, and offers no real argument to support changing how people will be taxed will affect production.
Con points out that pros argument that the poor can simply work longer, is pretty outrageous and I have to agree with him, as this is clearly against basic intuition.
Cons best point however is that in situe with harming the poor: instead of allowing the poor to chose between a cheap and an expensive option - it makes them chose between two expensive options.
I didn’t really buy cons case about the junk food tax in the Netherlands - I think con needed to provide better rationale here, or simply rely on the point above.
All told; con gave me a relatively compelling harm: that the poor will be forced to spend more and this is on balance harmful. Pro gave no real compelling harm, and no real justified reason to implement the tax. Both the “only harms the poor a little”, and “it lowers income tax” were both unconvincing and unjustified: and both covered by con.
Saying this, con needs to focus more on the food security, food cost and food availability aspects of the tax for it to be compelling: imo.
As a result of the above, however, I have to give this one to con: as they showed the clear harm in the absence of a clear tangible benefit.
This argument devolved into an argument over whether a 20% tax is significant for the average poor person.
Pro starts off by saying that the tax would not hurt the poor when trying to purchase junk food, and that even if it did, it would cause healthier eating. They also state that the poor do not eat junk food more than the rich. Pro, I might have bought this point, but Con gave some evidence as to why poor people will be addicted to junk food and pay a larger price for it, hence hurting them economically. You could have given counter-evidence to delink the argument, but all you tried to do was dampen the impact. You said a 20% tax is not significant for a poor person, and that for me was not an intuitive argument. You also said they could work more, but I have a hard time buying the idea that all poor people have a job in the first place, much less are able to get more hours. The links weren't clear and so I must award this argument to Con.
Next, Pro presents an argument that the income tax would decrease as a result of this tax, which becomes his main argument in favor. This was a much more intuitive argument against Con's case, as he spends the whole time refuting the idea of the tax reducing obesity. Con, you need to make sure to directly address Pro's arguments BEFORE the final speeches! I must award this argument to Pro because you did not get to it until final speech, when new arguments are not allowed.
However, Pro: I did not see a clear link between a junk food tax and a decreased income tax. Who is to say the taxes would necessarily decrease at all? Why would it be that particular tax, and not something like the estate tax?
Thus, I must weigh two uncontested arguments: the tax hurting poor people vs. a decrease in income tax.
Neither side gives me a weighing mechanism, so therefore I must go by which argument is most intuitively convincing.
Con could provide me a numerical value of how much poor people would get hurt by the tax: $520 more per year.
Pro could not guarantee me the benefit of a decrease in income tax nor quantify how much that decrease would be.
Thus, I must award this debate to Con.
Lesssgoooooo
Good debate, I left some constructive criticism for you both. Try to take it to heart! :)
Bump.
Bump
It’s on my list :)
Just so you know; I subscribe to all debates I haven’t voted in; and vote based on how long is remaining. I’ve only missed votes when there are a lot ending at the same time; or when I’ve been super busy (as I have been the last couple of weeks).
As a debate that sucked up spare time is mostly over now, I should have more time to vote and catch up :)
I have about 14 debates in my list now :)
Vote Please
I don't wanna tie, I wanna lose or win (mostly win though)
Vote CON
Vote Pro
Vote Con
Vote Con
I would also agree that my "modest proposal" is unrealistic...as I said, I said in jest (sorta). But I would also counter that just because a tax might be easy to implement is not good enough reason to implement it.
Tax those who are obese requires much more thought, you have to look into everyone's medical record, and then find if they're obese or not. I agree it's unfair, but it's unrealistic.
I eat and enjoy my junk food, but I also exercise regularly (run at least 4 times a week, play basketball 3 times a week). As a result, I am not obese-- i'm in great shape-- i'm one of those guys that can eat whatever I want, including junk food, and still maintain a healthy weight (it's a curse, I know). I should not be penalized (i.e. taxed) simply because others can't do the same......
Allow me to borrow a pen from Jonathan Swift and submit my own "modest proposal". If the intent is to curb or stop obesity, then how about we just tax those that are obese, rather than tax everyone who partakes of said junk food? This would provide a clear incentive to those who engage in an unhealthy lifestyle. The tax could be proportionate to the individual's um,....proportions......your % tax could be tied to something like BMI, or something like that....
I say all this in jest....well....sorta....
If a deal was made that a junk food tax would be implemented in exchange for a reduction in the income tax, then it would work. Many representatives are in the GOP and they would want the income tax abolished. This tax helps get revenue for the federal gov without an income tax.
First, I've only read the first round of arguments.
Your first point (1) is not really a "reason". Or at least I had trouble understanding how the point is a reason to implement a JF Tax. It is simply stating that implementing a JF tax would not impact the poor as much-- this is not really a reason.
Your second point (2) does seem to be a reason put forth by you. However, I would counter that you're making an assumption that the JF Tax would decrease the income tax. You don't know this- it's an assumption. For all we know, Congress' voracious appetite for money would not decrease and thus the "need" for the income tax would still be there.
I am rather capitalistic, but I feel like this is a decent idea. Not a perfect idea, but decent.
lol yeah I do. It's always been fascinating to me how the government chose to confront obesity in the wrong way.
You really like this topic lol
ok.
Ok
Nice Points