Instigator / Pro
Points: 42

Free Wins on DDO?

Finished

The voting period has ended

After 6 votes the winner is ...
Club
Debate details
Publication date
Last update
Category
Miscellaneous
Time for argument
Two days
Voting system
Open voting
Voting period
Two weeks
Point system
Four points
Rating mode
Rated
Characters per argument
10,000
Contender / Con
Points: 3
Description
Yet another debate on DDO
Round 1
Published:
I waive, in case of trolling or forfeiting!
Published:
Plagiarism note: I am partially using my own arguments from the Comments section. I have full permission from myself to post this as my own work here.

The entire concept of voting is a soft-enforced rule. What that means is that Juggle itself and the website's official documents such as terms of use etc all leave absolutely no official voting restrictions. This entails that you can (genuinely, not just pre-vote-mod) vote for someone who had their opponent is FF'ing every single Round if their debate was bad enough. Both versions (DART and DDO) have loopholes. In DA the loopholes or is patched in a strange way. If you concede openly and your opponent FFs, the only way to vote correctly is that people should give you Conduct and not give either side the other points but most will tie it.
Anyway, since every element of DDO entails risk of a loss even in as extreme a scenario as FF (which is only ever guaranteed at the price of risking a ban for collusion and/or alt-abuse) then no free win exists.

^ This was written after the debate was accepted by me, meaning it's entirely fair even from a time-spent-thinking perspective.

I will love to use a source to introduce equity to you.

WHAT IS POKER EQUITY?

In poker, equity refers to the portion of the pot that is yours based on the likelihood (percentage) that you’ll win the hand at a certain point in time. (To put it another way, equity is the percentage of the time you should win a poker hand.)

As an example, if there is $1,000 in the pot, and you are currently an 80% favourite to win the hand, your pot equity is $800.

Subsequently, the general winning poker strategy you should follow when you have an equity advantage over your opponent is to bet for value.

This concept applies to DDO debates. Since the 'accept' button there isn't exactly the point at which the full risk is taken, let's go further. The idea behind free wins is different with and without Full Forfeits.

DDO as is, is a site where if your opponent forfeits, you no longer get the loss (check comments section and stuff for 'proof' as well as looking at DDO itself as this seems to change monthly or something). Alternatively, what happens is your opponent will forfeit Rounds if they don't make it in time but there was always an aception which Pro will likely point out:

If you forfeit the very first Round as the Contender, you don't get a loss, the debate is 'undone'. This simply means it's safer to accept but doesn't actually mean that it's free. 

Let's consider site-rep, getting banned and many other factors here. It's never ever a guaranteed win, ever. There is always a chance of someone defeating you because in DDO even a full forfeit can be lost as voters can justify it if your argument was that terrible. Aside from that, you can never truly fully know that they're being banned unless you're like a moderator there and know with extreme certainty that the user is never coming back. The issue is that banned users on DDO had their open challenges deleted. I can't prove it and it's very easy for my opponent to say I'm lying but basically the only time you were debating a banned user was if they got banned during your debate.

Even if they were banned, you only would truly know they'd never be forgiven or something if you were a moderator and honestly even then it's a gamble unless yo'ure the head admin, seriously think about it the point is that there's still the slightest chance you lose. Similarly, in poker you are only ever the 100% winner after already risking chips to even see enough cards to know that (the risk was before you knew).

Even if you used alts and arranged votebombs last minute, they can be removed post-ending (but new votes cant be added) meaning 'free wins' always had limitations at every stage of DDO debates.
Round 2
Published:
Thanks for Accepting the Debate!

Moving On

Definition:
Free Win:
A win that required minimal effort to achieve or a very easy win.

"RationalMadman got a free win from Club in a Santa Claus debate.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The entire concept of voting is a soft-enforced rule. What that means is that Juggle itself and the website's official documents such as terms of use etc all leave absolutely no official voting restrictions. This entails that you can (genuinely, not just pre-vote-mod) vote for someone who had their opponent is FF'ing every single Round if their debate was bad enough. Both versions (DART and DDO) have loopholes. In DA the loopholes or is patched in a strange way. If you concede openly and your opponent FFs, the only way to vote correctly is that people should give you Conduct and not give either side the other points but most will tie it.
Anyway, since every element of DDO entails risk of a loss even in as extreme a scenario as FF (which is only ever guaranteed at the price of risking a ban for collusion and/or alt-abuse) then no free win exists.
According to our meaning, if there are no actual voting policies, then it is very easy to get a win, for absolutely no reason at all. 


WHAT IS POKER EQUITY?

In poker, equity refers to the portion of the pot that is yours based on the likelihood (percentage) that you’ll win the hand at a certain point in time. (To put it another way, equity is the percentage of the time you should win a poker hand.)

As an example, if there is $1,000 in the pot, and you are currently an 80% favourite to win the hand, your pot equity is $800.

Subsequently, the general winning poker strategy you should follow when you have an equity advantage over your opponent is to bet for value.
This concept applies to DDO debates. Since the 'accept' button there isn't exactly the point at which the full risk is taken, let's go further. The idea behind free wins is different with and without Full Forfeits.
DDO as is, is a site where if your opponent forfeits, you no longer get the loss (check comments section and stuff for 'proof' as well as looking at DDO itself as this seems to change monthly or something). Alternatively, what happens is your opponent will forfeit Rounds if they don't make it in time but there was always an aception which Pro will likely point out:
If you forfeit the very first Round as the Contender, you don't get a loss, the debate is 'undone'. This simply means it's safer to accept but doesn't actually mean that it's free. 
Let's consider site-rep, getting banned and many other factors here. It's never ever a guaranteed win, ever. There is always a chance of someone defeating you because in DDO even a full forfeit can be lost as voters can justify it if your argument was that terrible. Aside from that, you can never truly fully know that they're being banned unless you're like a moderator there and know with extreme certainty that the user is never coming back. The issue is that banned users on DDO had their open challenges deleted. I can't prove it and it's very easy for my opponent to say I'm lying but basically the only time you were debating a banned user was if they got banned during your debate.
Even if they were banned, you only would truly know they'd never be forgiven or something if you were a moderator and honestly even then it's a gamble unless yo'ure the head admin, seriously think about it the point is that there's still the slightest chance you lose. Similarly, in poker you are only ever the 100% winner after already risking chips to even see enough cards to know that (the risk was before you knew).
Even if you used alts and arranged votebombs last minute, they can be removed post-ending (but new votes cant be added) meaning 'free wins' always had limitations at every stage of DDO debates.

Yes but we are arguing if there are free wins, not that every debate on DDO has free wins.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dsjpk5 METHOD

By debating backwardseden, you will get free wins via dsjpk5, even if you FF, dsjpk5 will vote for you..





Forfeited
Round 3
Published:
VOTE PRO
Forfeited
Round 4
Published:
VOTE PRO
Forfeited
Added:
Forfeited debates aren't moderated
#39
Added:
Criterion Pro Tie Con Points
Better arguments ✔ ✗ ✗ 3 points
Better sources ✔ ✗ ✗ 2 points
Better spelling and grammar ✔ ✗ ✗ 1 point
Better conduct ✔ ✗ ✗ 1 point
Reason: PRO FFs 75% of debate.
If repeated, I think this works better as an unrated debate topic.
#38
Added:
--> @RationalMadman
What is DA and FF
#37
Added:
--> @Club
I am here to ask everyone, who has an account in DDO? Make friends with me there! My account there is same as here
#36
Added:
yeah, but mostly
Instigator
#35
Added:
"By debating backwardseden, you will get free wins via dsjpk5, even if you FF, dsjpk5 will vote for you.."
Not as much anymore:(, and forfeit glitch
#34
Added:
--> @Club
Sure RM said it doesn't matter so make sure you have additional arguments if that fails. I only thought of that at the top of my head.
#33
Added:
--> @TheRealNihilist
I used your argument, I need permission.
Instigator
#32
Added:
It doesn't matter of he uses that. I'm going to prove that free wins don't exist on ddo.
The entire concept of voting is a soft-enforced rule. What that means is that Juggle itself and the website's official documents such as terms of use etc all leave absolutely no official voting restrictions. This entails that you can (genuinely, not just pre-vote-mod) vote for someone who had their opponent is FF'ing every single Round if their debate was bad enough.
Both versions (DART and DDO) have loopholes. In DA the loopholes or is patched in a strange way. If you concede openly and your opponent FFs, the only way to vote correctly is that people should give you Conduct and not give either side the other points but most will tie it.
Anyway, since every element of DDO entails risk of a loss even in as extreme a scenario as FF (which is only ever guaranteed at the price of risking a ban for collusion and/or alt-abuse) then no free and n exists.
I will use game theory and poker terms like 'equity' to explain why the risk is a real thing at the point of accepting the debate and not an imaginary thing that is undone by how obviously bad an opponent seems.
Contender
#31
Added:
--> @Club
If you use my example as your only example RM can say that you cheated or something since my argument came before yours.
#30
Added:
--> @Club
"Free Wins on DDO?"
#29
Added:
--> @TheRealNihilist
getting some free wins on DART .
Instigator
#28
Added:
--> @Club
Yes debate backwardseden. Wait for dsjpk5 to vote for you. Done.
#27
Added:
--> @TheRealNihilist
Ok,
ARE THERE FREE WINS ON DDO?
Me: Yes RM: No
Instigator
#26
Added:
--> @TheRealNihilist
sorry that was my reckless cousin, he's been causing trouble a lot.
Instigator
#25
#6
Criterion Pro Tie Con Points
Better arguments 3 points
Better sources 2 points
Better spelling and grammar 1 point
Better conduct 1 point
Reason:
RFD in comments
#5
Criterion Pro Tie Con Points
Better arguments 3 points
Better sources 2 points
Better spelling and grammar 1 point
Better conduct 1 point
Reason:
No forfeit
#4
Criterion Pro Tie Con Points
Better arguments 3 points
Better sources 2 points
Better spelling and grammar 1 point
Better conduct 1 point
Reason:
Full forfeiture.
#3
Criterion Pro Tie Con Points
Better arguments 3 points
Better sources 2 points
Better spelling and grammar 1 point
Better conduct 1 point
Reason:
Con FF the majority of the rounds, that's poor conduct!
#2
Criterion Pro Tie Con Points
Better arguments 3 points
Better sources 2 points
Better spelling and grammar 1 point
Better conduct 1 point
Reason:
Forfeit, I'm now 3 for 3 when I say easy win in comments, let's go!
#1
Criterion Pro Tie Con Points
Better arguments 3 points
Better sources 2 points
Better spelling and grammar 1 point
Better conduct 1 point
Reason:
FULL forfeit.