Instigator / Pro
8
1697
rating
556
debates
68.17%
won
Topic
#1226

The struggle of transgender people is severely comparable to the struggle that people who have a very peculiar accent and ethnicity, when compared with their physical race, go through in life.

Status
Finished

The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.

Winner & statistics
Better arguments
0
33
Better sources
2
22
Better legibility
2
11
Better conduct
4
9

After 11 votes and with 67 points ahead, the winner is...

Ramshutu
Parameters
Publication date
Last updated date
Type
Standard
Number of rounds
4
Time for argument
Three days
Max argument characters
30,000
Voting period
One month
Point system
Multiple criterions
Voting system
Open
Contender / Con
75
1764
rating
43
debates
94.19%
won
Description

I'm gonna go full right wing conservative on this shit but in a trans-friendly way. You're going to see me go so ham you don't even know which way to turn to win the debate.

This is about someone like Collie Buddz but a more extreme example. They exist, and yes I'll show remote examples but most are too shy of a camera etc to truly admit how they feel. I am talking about a white guy, straight up white physically but grew up in India has the whole accent, head-nod everything. Try seeing him take a flight to another nation and walk into an Indian neighbourhood there and do those moves or that accent... Think he can even get a job? They think he's racist and mocking them no matter what right? So, he goes to a plastic surgeon and says 'why must i fight all that feels natural to me? I don't want to change my accent, my way of shaking my head like a brown Indian when I talk or any of it... Please can you change my race?!" And the surgeon rings up his Politically Correct Media friends and say 'OMG! Fascist mocks the struggle of Transgenders!"..

Actually, you just mocked his struggle as a transethnic. That's what I'm gonna prove here. Race, age, it's as set in stone as gender meaning not that we need to ban transgenders but that we should start to grasp the ignorance and prejudice of terms like 'cultural appropriation' and start aiming for the one world globalist regime once and for all!

Criterion Pro Tie Con Points
Better arguments ✗ ✗ ✔ 3 points
Better sources ✗ ✗ ✔ 2 points
Better spelling and grammar ✗ ✗ ✔ 1 point
Better conduct ✔ ✗ ✗ 1 point
Reason: PRO concedes. Conduct to PRO, all other points to CON

-->
@Dynasty

Doesn't mean they are the same.

If that is your argument then life and death are related.

Are they the same?

-->
@TheRealNihilist

Gender and sex are related.

-->
@Dynasty

Gender is environment.
Sex is biological.

We wouldn't have two words that pretty much mean the same thing if that was the case.

>>Do you know that transgenderism is a mental disorder?

Do you know that this isn't true?
Gender dysphoria is the problem.
Transgender is just a label like man and woman.
The ism depends on which thing you follow. I don't really know the ism with it comes to transgender so it can open to who defines it. Care to tell me what transgenderism is?

-->
@TheRealNihilist

Gender is not a social construct, it's biological. Also, I have a question. Do you know that transgenderism is a mental disorder?

-->
@Dynasty

No you don't and your lack of clarification does imply you can't actually explain yourself.

-->
@TheRealNihilist

I know what I'm talking about.

-->
@Alec

>>Men on average have more muscle, they tend to run faster and punch harder. This is due to a testosterone advantage that men have over women 42 fold.

Biology is sex.
Gender is social.

Testosterone differences would only matter if all men have higher testosterone but they don't. Women can have more than men which means the biological aspect of sex doesn't neuter what people do with their lives.

Saying x on average has more than y isn't an argument that there are entire class differences. You are just simply stating on average x has more than y. This can't be extrapolated to meaning the entire x is different to the entirety y because that would mean it wouldn't be based on average, it would be based on x having more than y not on average.

Do you have clear data which states all men have something women don't that isn't biological? If you don't then gender is based on what people do with their lives. This can be how they socially behave and other environmental things.

-->
@TheRealNihilist

>>Men equal facial hair and women equal long hair. These are based on the society which is why it is a social construct. Both the label and gender is a social construct.

There are other differences between men and women other than their hair styles. Men on average have more muscle, they tend to run faster and punch harder. This is due to a testosterone advantage that men have over women 42 fold.

-->
@Alec

>>Not accurate.

How?

>>Language is a social construct, but gender isin´t. All labels and all words are social constructs, but the concept of gender, rather than the actual word is not a social construct.

You have agreed the label is a social construct. I will move on to gender. Gender is a social construct because it si based on what is socially agreed upon what is a man and a woman. Men equal facial hair and women equal long hair. These are based on the society which is why it is a social construct. Both the label and gender is a social construct.

-->
@TheRealNihilist

>>Man and woman are social construct because gender is a social construct.

Not accurate.

>> It is labels we ascribe to things like chairs. tables etc.

Language is a social construct, but gender isin´t. All labels and all words are social constructs, but the concept of gender, rather than the actual word is not a social construct.

-->
@Alec

>>Gender is not a social construct

Social construct: an idea that has been created and accepted by the people in a society Class distinctions are a social construct.

Man and woman are social construct because gender is a social construct. It is labels we ascribe to things like chairs. tables etc. Those differences don't state otherwise. I am specifically talking about the labels.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/social%20construct

>>It´s like saying that working out will make you better at sports. Is it hard? Yes.

You don't have evidence and resort to a random answered question. I'll ask again do you have evidence?

-->
@TheRealNihilist

Gender is not a social construct, so dynasty was right about that. The NIH confirms various differences between men and women. If gender were a social construct, then why would transgenders be commiting suicide over something that they believe is a nominal difference; gender/sex?

>>Do you have evidence for this solution?

It´s like saying that working out will make you better at sports. Is it hard? Yes. Do most people not want to do it? Yes. If you want to change from LGBT to straight and cis, just as if an out of shape person could become in shape, is it possible with effort? Yes. I don´t want to make conversion therapy required under law, but it definitely should be an option for adults that consent for religious reasons or any other reason.

-->
@Dynasty

Welcome another person who doesn't know what they are talking about.

Genders is not a social construct. And, transgenderism is a mental disorder.

-->
@Alec

>>My solution is getting the transgenders mental help with their condition so they are less likely to commit suicide.

Do you have evidence for this solution?

>>It's the condition of being transgender that has caused so many to commit or attempt suicide, not how society treats them.

It is a bit of both. Nature v Nurture thing here.

>>The West treats them pretty good if all they have to worry about is misgendering on the basis of belief. The notion that some states would punish people for misgendering on the basis of belief is truly fascist.

Not anything about your solution.

-->
@TheRealNihilist

>>You are too busy ragging on something instead of spending some time to actually find a solution

My solution is getting the transgenders mental help with their condition so they are less likely to commit suicide. It's the condition of being transgender that has caused so many to commit or attempt suicide, not how society treats them. The West treats them pretty good if all they have to worry about is misgendering on the basis of belief. The notion that some states would punish people for misgendering on the basis of belief is truly fascist.

-->
@Alec

>>I think the suicide rate would fall more if transgenders were encouraged to get rehabilitation rather than just acceptance.

Here we go again. You are so sure there is a problem but are not so sure the solution you have is good. That is the problem. You are too busy ragging on something instead of spending some time to actually find a solution (No your whatever bad ideas are in the forums don't count because they don't work and I have demonstrated to you it doesn't work). My side is that I know this helps and you agree with it so I don't need to provide a solution.

>>What is the difference between transgenderism and gender dysphoria?

Transgender is a label of a person and the ism is whatever the group leader or person elected to be the group leader says it is. If there isn't one then they can make the ism whatever they want it to be. Gender dysphoria is a medical diagnosis.

-->
@TheRealNihilist

I think the suicide rate would fall more if transgenders were encouraged to get rehabilitation rather than just acceptance. What is the difference between transgenderism and gender dysphoria? Men and women shouldn’t be changed because it is not scientifically accurate and gender is not a social construct.

MOD NOTE: This debate is unmoderated as this is a conceded debate.

-->
@Alec

Barely falls is better not falling whatsoever. Do you not see that?

Transgenderism is cured by finding a cure to gender dysphoria. Transgenderism is not a problem. Gender dysphoria is unless of course man and women shouldn't be changed because God said so.

The reason why the transgender suicide rate is so high is because transgenderism is a disorder that transgenders should try to treat. Similar disorders are bipolar disorder, which claims a comparable percentage of it´s victims. In societies where transgenderism is accepted, the suicide rate barely falls compared to where it´s not accepted.

-->
@bmdrocks21

The complete unilateral capitulation surprised me too.

There’s a ton of stuff he could have pulled out, even on that one point. For example, he could have gone your route, and argued there’s no white or black only toilets, or restrictions - and limitations on transgender in this way is different.

He could have argued applying for ethnic based grants or scholarships when you're not of that race could be considered fraud: so could well already be illegal; etc.

Shrug. It’s just a bit disappointing - I was looking forward to some strategic argumentation genius.

-->
@RationalMadman

Why did you concede? You could downplay that one point instead of conceding the whole debate. Also, you said the struggles were "severely comparable", not the same. It could be argued that it was one of the very few ways in which they differed.

-->
@Ramshutu

Oh, I just saw that and thought it seemed out of place lol. Seemed pretty standard. Religious freedom and all that

-->
@bmdrocks21

Buzz feed news to report something someone said - not as an opinion peice.

Do you think what it said didn’t happen?

Buzzfeed news... lol

I visit the site while doing other things.

you were on all day RM..wtf

-->
@Speedrace

sure thing ;) the main angle I already know Ramshutu is going to hammer home is that Transgender struggle is anti-family whereas Transethnic is family-made struggle. The way I am going to counter it is by analysing all other elements of them and how similar the struggle is, despite coming from near-opposite polarities of how one ends up there.

Similarly, Ramshutu will argue that one literally wants to change their gender, not just is a feminine man or masculine woman but I am going to try my best to prove that it is because society pressures them to pick a gender that they end up siding with the opposite one and identifying as that instead of a middleground.

-->
@RationalMadman

I'll vote on this since I'm way more active nowadays, remind me though

-->
@Pinkfreud08

LOL That's so true for me though tooooooooooooooooooooooo

Face it, you can never quit this site.