Points: 2

The struggle of transgender people is severely comparable to the struggle that people who have a very peculiar accent and ethnicity, when compared with their physical race, go through in life.

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Debate details
Publication date
Last update
Category
Society
Time for argument
Three days
Voting system
Open voting
Voting period
One month
Point system
Four points
Rating mode
Rated
Characters per argument
30,000
Contender
Points: 13
Description
I'm gonna go full right wing conservative on this shit but in a trans-friendly way. You're going to see me go so ham you don't even know which way to turn to win the debate.
This is about someone like Collie Buddz but a more extreme example. They exist, and yes I'll show remote examples but most are too shy of a camera etc to truly admit how they feel. I am talking about a white guy, straight up white physically but grew up in India has the whole accent, head-nod everything. Try seeing him take a flight to another nation and walk into an Indian neighbourhood there and do those moves or that accent... Think he can even get a job? They think he's racist and mocking them no matter what right? So, he goes to a plastic surgeon and says 'why must i fight all that feels natural to me? I don't want to change my accent, my way of shaking my head like a brown Indian when I talk or any of it... Please can you change my race?!" And the surgeon rings up his Politically Correct Media friends and say 'OMG! Fascist mocks the struggle of Transgenders!"..
Actually, you just mocked his struggle as a transethnic. That's what I'm gonna prove here. Race, age, it's as set in stone as gender meaning not that we need to ban transgenders but that we should start to grasp the ignorance and prejudice of terms like 'cultural appropriation' and start aiming for the one world globalist regime once and for all!
Round 1
Published:
I can't put this Round in time, the struggle is the same because society pressures one to be the type of something that they're not due to physical features associated with that type. I'll see what Con brings and fully build a case in R2 that both attacks and defends.
Published:
I would like to thank my opponent for this debate.

As pro effectively forfeited the opening round without providing an argument, I will be treating the definition of this debate as pros opening argument.

0.) Resolution

This debate is whether the struggle of the Transgender is “severely comparable” to that of the Trans Ethnic (TE)

For it to be “severely comparable”, Pro must show that the natureseverity and extent of their suffering and hardship experienced as they go through their lives - the struggle - must be broadly similar. 

Simply having similar problems on its own does not make the struggles “severely comparable” - the degree of suffering needs to be similar : One cannot say the struggles of being short is “severely comparable” to being handicapped. Similar issues - different extents.

1.) Baseless Assertion.

Pros argument hinges around a baseless assertion: that TE exists as described and that there is a substantial struggle for such individuals related to their accent being different from their race.

Given pros only concrete example is of a successful musician - it is unclear of pros example demographic is mistreated in the way he claims or even exists to any meaningful degree.

2.) Transgender suffer more.

Assuming pros hypothetical example exists, it’s clear that the transgender are subject to more substantial suffering within society in the following ways:

Legislation: There is legislation in multiple countries that prohibit the free expression of Gender that explicitly target the transgender[1]. This includes several states in the US[2]. There are also various laws that limit the ability or rights of the transgender, for example the federal government relating to service in the military.[3]

Violence: The transgender population are significantly more at risk of being victims of sexual assault [4], violent crime and murder[5][6] - with nearly 50%[4] chance of being victims of sexual assault in their lifetime.

Rates of Suicide: The Transgender are subject to far, far higher rates of suicide, self harm and mental illness than the normal population, or the rest of the LGBTQ community.[7]

Hostility and Social opposition: In the west, there is mounting social opposition to transgender rights - often being declared as “unnatural”[8]; this has included anti-transgender rallies[9], and an actively hostile president.[10]

I have found no sources or evidence of any kind that any of these issues are present in any demographics pro is referencing: and there is no reason to presume that such issues would present themselves to even close to this degree. 

There are no anti-TE laws, no examples of severe mental illness, self harm, suicide, violence, or objectively measurable hostility from society.

I would encourage pro to provide evidence of such comparable examples in his demographic.

3.) Suffering of TE individuals is limited.

It is reasonable to presume that most people would accept the explanation “I was educated and spent all my life in india” as an explanation of an Indian accent - without evidence it cannot be considered that there is a likely substantial detriment to individuals.

While it’s possible that some individuals may be mocked, or accused of being racist - this clearly falls way short of anything presented above.

4.) Differences in Management

We are more attached to our physical appearance as part of our identity than to our accent given the ubiquity of accent coaches and lessons.[11]

Resolving TE is easiest to resolve simply by accent modification that involves a small time and monetary investment - and can even be done online - after which there are no residual problems.[11]

Issues with being Transgender take multiple years, irreversible invasive surgery and a lifetime of hormone treatment to resolve - and stillend up being subject to all the issues listed above.[12]

5.) The internal issues are clearly not comparable.

The major issue of being Transgender is the psychological issues related to being inability to accept ones own body and sex.[13]

The issue of TE is not an issue of being unable to accept oneself (as we are generally unaware of our own accent), but  either being concerned with how others will view you; or issues with how others treat you.

The latter is a common struggle applicable to almost everything in life. Too short, too small, big teeth, etc. The former is quite uncommon, and much more psychologically profound internalized lack of acceptance.

As a result, the two things are fundamentally different and thus incomparable.

Conclusion

The conclusion here is simple. The data clearly shows that there is a substantial struggle in being transgender, violence death, suicide and society being fundamentally hostile to your existence and is incredibly hard to resolve to the point one is comfortable with themselves; even though such solutions will not prevent the other issues. There is no evidence that there is any wide reaching issues for TE at all - leave alone to as significant degree as described.


Sources:






Round 2
Forfeited
Published:
In the absence of my opponent providing an argument that either attacks or defends, I will extend my arguments to the next round.
Round 3
Published:
The law point is irrefutable. I have lost the debate.
Published:
I graciously accept my opponents concession.

Vote for Con!
Round 4
Published:
                                                                                                                                                               
Published:
Vote con.
Added:
--> @bmdrocks21
The complete unilateral capitulation surprised me too.
There’s a ton of stuff he could have pulled out, even on that one point. For example, he could have gone your route, and argued there’s no white or black only toilets, or restrictions - and limitations on transgender in this way is different.
He could have argued applying for ethnic based grants or scholarships when you're not of that race could be considered fraud: so could well already be illegal; etc.
Shrug. It’s just a bit disappointing - I was looking forward to some strategic argumentation genius.
Contender
#11
Added:
--> @RationalMadman
Why did you concede? You could downplay that one point instead of conceding the whole debate. Also, you said the struggles were "severely comparable", not the same. It could be argued that it was one of the very few ways in which they differed.
#10
Added:
--> @Ramshutu
Oh, I just saw that and thought it seemed out of place lol. Seemed pretty standard. Religious freedom and all that
#9
Added:
--> @bmdrocks21
Buzz feed news to report something someone said - not as an opinion peice.
Do you think what it said didn’t happen?
Contender
#8
Added:
Buzzfeed news... lol
#7
Added:
I visit the site while doing other things.
Instigator
#6
Added:
you were on all day RM..wtf
#5
Added:
--> @Speedrace
sure thing ;) the main angle I already know Ramshutu is going to hammer home is that Transgender struggle is anti-family whereas Transethnic is family-made struggle. The way I am going to counter it is by analysing all other elements of them and how similar the struggle is, despite coming from near-opposite polarities of how one ends up there.
Similarly, Ramshutu will argue that one literally wants to change their gender, not just is a feminine man or masculine woman but I am going to try my best to prove that it is because society pressures them to pick a gender that they end up siding with the opposite one and identifying as that instead of a middleground.
Instigator
#4
Added:
--> @RationalMadman
I'll vote on this since I'm way more active nowadays, remind me though
#3
Added:
--> @Pinkfreud08
LOL That's so true for me though tooooooooooooooooooooooo
#2
Added:
Face it, you can never quit this site.
#1
#2
Criterion Pro Tie Con Points
Better arguments 3 points
Better sources 2 points
Better spelling and grammar 1 point
Better conduct 1 point
Reason:
C
#1
Criterion Pro Tie Con Points
Better arguments 3 points
Better sources 2 points
Better spelling and grammar 1 point
Better conduct 1 point
Reason:
Concession.