The God of the Bible is the One True God
The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.
After 1 vote and with 1 point ahead, the winner is...
- Publication date
- Last updated date
- Type
- Standard
- Number of rounds
- 5
- Time for argument
- One week
- Max argument characters
- 10,000
- Voting period
- One week
- Point system
- Winner selection
- Voting system
- Open
No information
For the purposes of this debate, it is understood that pro has the burden of proof to show that the Christian God exists, and is broadly accurate as depicted by the bible, with no other Gods or religious texts being “true”. The burden here is due to Pro making the positive claim.
1.) Religions are invented by humans.
For Pros position to be correct, humans must have invented the monotheistic Gods of Zoroastrianism, Islam, pantheistic Gods of Hinduism, Sikhism, Roman, Egyptian, Babylonian, Greek and Norse Gods. These include the writing of multiple religious texts such as the Koran, the Iliad, the Baghvad Gita, etc.
Christianity is itself an offshoot of Judaism, which itself is partially derived and influenced from Zoroastrianism - which is the source of concepts like the devil[1] - this is an invented religion according to the above.
It is also an accepted fact that the Bible itself was written, composed, edited, collated and translated by humans in some cases decades to hundreds of years after the events depicted.[2]
Given human propensity for making up religions: the fact we know humans wrote the book, without a compelling reason to believe otherwise - it seems the most likely explanation that Christianity is merely an invention of humans as are all the others.
2.) No direct evidence of God.
Since religion has existed, humans have invented telescopes, particle accelerators, harnessed the power of the sun and sequenced our own genetic code.
Yet, despite the advancements we have made, and despite the invention of innumerable fields of science and physics that involve probing the very nature of matter: we actually have less evidence of God than we did when humans were building pyramids.
We have no plausible or possible mechanism through God is able to act in able to manipulate the physical world, no possible location or evidence of a dimension in which he can exist, nor any direct evidence of him affecting anything.
Given our advancements, if the Christian God was real, and affected the world, we would expect to have some direct evidence of this.
Given (1), the lack of objective direct evidence for Gods existence when there should be, supports the idea of his non existence.
3.) Lack of direct evidence for the Bible
If the Bible was divinely inspired, or described supernatural events that actually occurred, one would expect there to be broad evidence to support it, and for biblical explanations to be the best one. For example:
A.) One would expect there the Bible to contain knowledge unavailable at the time. If the Bible contained maths, equations or physics beyond that which humans could have postulated at the time - this would be more compelling. There is no such knowledge in the Bible.
B.) One would expect to see evidence of events in the Bible - genetic bottlenecks in ALL species of animals dating to roughly the same period, [3] consistent geographic locations of animals with the idea of a flood diaspora - or evidence of a catastrophic global floods, rather than collated evidence of local flood (which happen all the time)
C.) We would see evidence for “Kinds”, or some objective method in DNA by which we can objectively tell animals do not share an ancestor. We don’t.[4]
D.) Being the word of an all powerful being, the Bible should be so compelling and believable, there would no need for any other religion. It should be convincing enough to refute all others, and rise above all human made books. However, only 2.4bn follow the bible - with high deconversion rates in the west and is being outpaced by the growth in Islam[5], this hardly seems like the result of book directly and intentional inspired by an omnipotent superbeing.
E.) The unambiguous word of God is unlikely to be so ambiguous that it would splinter into multi major denominations and thousands of different subs factions and sub types who believe subtly different things[6]. Yet, they are.
The lack of clear divine knowledge, and lack of apparent divine validity in the Bible lends substantial credibility to the idea that Christianity is simply made up by humans - which trivially explains all the e evidence presented thus far.
4.) Rebuttals:
4.1) The universe has a cause.
Most people, including myself, agree that the universe we see has a cause.
Pro does not explain, nor provide evidence for why the most likely “cause” is that an omnipotent super being exists in an external dimension out of time and decided to create the universe.
Given that Quantum physics repeatedly violates the laws of causality - allowing particles to come from nothing[6], and allowing spontaneous events to happen without any apparent mechanical cause[7]; a cause along these lines seems much more reasonable and evidence based than does the the supernatural deity suggested by pro.
4.2) Design.
Pro asserts that because the universe is complex, it is required to be designed.
Evolution - the widely accepted, evidence based explanation of the existence of life - as pro alludes to; provides a detailed, well evidenced explanation of how complexity can arise from less complex precursors through sequential descent with modification without a designer.[8]
Pro should provide an argument as to why the only possible explanation for why complexity can only arise through intention.
4.3) Moral laws.
Morality changes depending on culture and time. Slavery was viewed as acceptable at times in history, ritual suicide, ritual sacrifice of humans, genocide, rape and pillage of innocents during war were all considered valid at one point or another.[9][10][11]
This refutes the idea of an immutable moral standard that lives within all of us.
Worse, evolutionary principles happily explain the existence of morality as observed:
Morality is a set of learned social emotions that operates to constrain and manage our behaviour within a group. Such emotions help prevent behaviour detrimental to the group, and thus provides an evolutionary imperative for such morality.[12]
4.4) Historicity
It is possible to write a book today about the second coming of Jesus - who lived with his followers and taught moral law before being killed as a result of government intervention.
This book, about David Koresh[15], would be written close to the time of the events, would depict real people, would line up with contemporary news sources and accounts. Yet - such facts would not come close to proving the incredible claims that Koresh was Jesus.
Likewise, that Jesus may well have existed and was written into the Bible does not mean he is the son of God.
It seems more likely, given the above, and the fact that the writers of the bible were human and had a reason to distort what they wrote to convince others, may have embellished and made fantastic the life of a compelling preacher of the time.
Worse for Pro - other religious texts - such as the illiad, Islam, and Judaism also have historical truths to them.[13][14]
Conclusion:
In 1,2 and 3 I provide a detailed argument as to why Christianity is likely invented, as it lacks and distinguishing features that separates it from an invented religion.
Pro offers 3 faulty syllogisms that he does not justify as to why God exists.
Worse, pro offers only one single point to justify the existence of the Christian God.
As a result, pro has not met his burden of proof, and it seems clearly more likely that God is merely the invention of humans.
Sources:
[1] http://www.bbc.com/culture/story/20170406-this-obscure-religion-shaped-the-west
[2] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Development_of_the_New_Testament_canon
[3] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_bottleneck
[4] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Created_kind
[5] https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2015/04/02/397042004/muslim-population-will-surpass-christians-this-century-pew-says
[6] https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/something-from-nothing-vacuum-can-yield-flashes-of-light/
[7] https://www.iop.org/resources/topic/archive/radioactivity/#gref
[8] https://www.britannica.com/science/evolution-scientific-theory
[9] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_sacrifice_in_Aztec_culture
[10] https://www.britannica.com/topic/seppuku
[11] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bible_and_slavery
[12] https://www.humansandnature.org/a-primatological-perspective-on-evolution-and-morality
[13]https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troy_VII
[14] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Muhammad
[15]https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Koresh
1.) Invented religions
These websites contain “statements of faith”, [1][2] that effectively state that no contradictory evidence can possibly be true.
The conclusions of a website that almost explicitly states it would never draw any other possible conclusion, regardless of what the evidence and facts may state cannot possible be accepted as valid or trustworthy and should be rejected.
Voters should reject pros contextless links; presented as his argument, and focus solely on the arguments of his own he provides in text.
1.) Invented Religions
Pro has gone from challenging religions as invented, then to claiming he agrees they are untrue. This confirms my original claim.
Pro has not offered an additional argument: merely post 3 links to articles.
1.a.) influence of Zoroastrianism:
The original link explains that heaven, hell, judgement day, Angels, demons, the conflict between good and evil with those who pick the side of God being rewarded with an afterlife are all likely derived from influences of Zoroastrianism - not just Satan as pro argues - these cover almost the entire philosophical narrative of Judaism and Christianity.
This is a false religion, created by humans - influencing and changing the core philosophy of the religion that produced Christianity - this clearly and strongly implies Christianity is false too.
1.b.) Genesis Predates Zoroastrianism.
Genesis is notionally as old as 900BC based on literary devices, but likely more likely dates to 500BCE[3]; and the oldest surviving manuscript is a few hundred years younger still.[4]
There is absolutely nothing about the debate that prevent Zoroastrianism (which as shown could be older) influencing early Judaism after the initial stories were being told orally, in a way that influenced subsequent iterations of Judaism into what it is now - as my source indicated.
3.b.) Evidence of a flood
Pro makes a number of asserted statements about evidence for a global flood. Pro does not offer evidence that these things are actually true. Pro does not explain their context. Pro does not explain how they lead to the conclusion of a single global flood rather than the product of local floods, or local conditions.
As such, there is no argument for me to refute.
A global catastrophic flood that happened 6000 years ago should have clear and unambiguous evidence attributable only to a global wipeout.
Genetic bottle necks (unchallenged by pro) is one such example; another would be modern mammals being mixed up in the sediment of dinosaurs (they all lived and died at the same time, after all); or sequencable DNA in all fossils (Which you would expect if they all died 6000 years agi)[5]
Given that a global flood should definitely have to produce the examples above, and a series of local floods could potentially produce pros examples. The presence of the latter in the absence of the former refutes a global flood.
3.c) Kinds
In the last round I provided a source that showed organisms developing reproductive isolation - thus becoming new “kinds” as per pros definition.
Pro ignores this example and simply states I haven’t provided evidence (I did), and no one has ever seen it (they have).
Pro then goes on to refute his entire position by claiming evolution is invalid due to lack of direct evidence.
Ignoring the fact no scientists has ever claimed that evolution occurred as pro claims: If pro demands that direct observation is required to consider something true - then God cannot be accepted as existing for the lack of that same direct observation.
3a/d/e.) The Bible is not convincing.
Pro largely misses the point of this argument.
If a book was written under the auspices of a hyper intelligent super being for the express purpose of explaining to humanity both the meaning of their existence, the requirements for eternal salvation, and to help convince humanity to worship him:
One would fully expect the book to attract far more than 30% of humanity, and to not be so ambiguous as to fracture followers into thousands of denominations that believe different things about the inherent nature of that very same salvation.
On the other hand, if the Bible were written by bronze age humans, was spiritually faked, with limited knowledge of reality: this is exactly what we would expect to see.
Pro has claimed that the Bible isn’t a science or history book: yet pro himself argues that the Bible is historically accurate, contains valid verifiable science, and Genesis contains an account of the creation of earth, and early events; and pro claims it provides scientific references in dinosaurs and “life is in the blood” - which given that humans knew you could bleed to death is not a compelling piece of scientific knowledge.
Given that the bible contains statements on science, and history: if this book was truly inspired by the God it depicts, one would fully expect that once he decided to reference scientific principles - he would not limit himself to choosing examples of science known to humans at the time. Nor would we expect him to make the scientific evidence refute the facts of the events he allegedly participated in.
Yet - these things would both be clearly true if the Bible was invented.
This argument clearly shows that the Bible has all the hallmarks of being written by Bronze Age humans, rather than inspired by God as a result.
Pros responses - as noted - is to simply provide a list of speculative and unsupported excuses as to why a book inspired by an omnipotent super being with access to infinite information would look likea book written by Bronze Age humans inventing a religion.
Pro then goes on to make a Gish Gallop of claims about how he knows the Bible is true; from claiming miracles and prophecies happened to asserting the Bible has no contradictions.
These are all bare assertions by pro, only half of which are supported by sources of questionable veracity.
As this debate is 10k characters, I don’t feel it reasonable to dedicate a thousand words to refute each individual claim that pro asserts but does not justify with an argument.
4.1) Cosmological argument.
Pro claims I have offered no evidence that the laws of causality have been disproven. This was provided in R1, in sources 6 and 7, then dropped by pro. Where I showed that we know particles can come from nothing, and events can occur that are not proceeded themselves caused by an event.
Pro also drops the additional case made in the last round.
I fully extend this point.
2.) Direct evidence for God.
4.2) Life is designed.
4.3.) Moral Law
4.4.) Historicity.
Pro does not offer an argument, and thus drops these points.
Note: posting a link instead of an argument is both unfair, and should be treated as poor conduct (as covered)
5.) Pro has not affirmed the resolution.
Pro drops this argument again. I extend.
6.) Plagurism.
Pro drops this argument again. I extend.
Use of sources / Conclusion
Pro appears to be frustrated at my argument, implying that I did not produce an argument and have relied on Wikipedia.
This is obviously not the case, and given that pros R2 consisted of him copy and pasting book quotes, I find the accusation rather ironic.
I’ve offered exceptionally detailed arguments as to why Christianity shares the hallmarks of being invented by humans - and used sources only to demonstrate the validity of the facts I use to justify these claims.
This is clearly an unfair and unreasonable accusation.
Sources:
[1]https://answersingenesis.org/about/faith/
[2]https://creation.com/what-we-believe
[3] https://www.britannica.com/topic/Genesis-Old-Testament
[4] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_manuscript
[5] https://www.popsci.com/science/article/2013-02/whats-half-life-dna/
Pro does not defend AiG or Creation.com, despite my presenting a clear reason why they can be discounted as reliable sources.
Pro demands I refute the information within dozens of links he provides; which is impractical given that a.) the limit is 10,000 chars and b.) Pro does not present specific facts to be challenged.
Given that I have shown that AiG is trustworthy, pros claims supported by these links must be considered suspect.
1.) invented religions
Pro concedes all other religions are invented - a major premise of my argument.
1.a.) Influence of Zoroastrianism.
Pros only argument against the claim that Zoroaster did not influence Judaism, is that one book of the bible *may* have origins as old as 900 BCE.
As noted in the last round, historians place the likely date of genesis as we know it at around 500BCE, though it may have earlier origins.
Pro appears to imply that as genesis is from 900 BCE - that there is no possibility it could have been modified or changed between the time it was written or first orally transferred, and the first recorded text of genesis dates 700 years later.
Even if pros claim is correct - it is not a refutation, as Zoroastrianism influence could have simply shaped the evolution of genesis as a book.
3.b.) The flood.
In the last round I explained that a global flood would be expected to produce bottle necks, assortments of mammals and dinosaurs, and would likely allow us to find DNA in almost all fossils we find.
Pro drops this point, and simply links an external site in lieu of an argument, so should be considered to have dropped these key points.
3.c) Kinds
Pro offers only one way of determining what a kind is - reproductive isolation- and I have provided evidence showing this can arise naturally. Pro drops this completely.
Pro again demands direct evidence in order to believe something is true - this refutes pro’s position as we haven’t seen God create anything either.
Nothing in evolution requires a lizard to give birth to a chicken; the suggestion is an inherent straw man. Evolution requires dogs to remain dogs.
If some dogs evolve into a new Clade, they will become a sub grouping of dogs - but still dogs. The same way that dogs are still carnivoraforms, and mammals and chordates, and eukaryote.
3.) A/D/E - God is not convincing.
Pro again drops the entire thesis and reiterated his assertion that science and history contained in the bible is accurate.
The science/history in the bible is not accurate. Kinds do not exist, there is major evidence missing for a global flood.
The most compelling scientific fact, is a nondescript assertion that “life is in the blood”. This does not sound a compelling, valid and accurate claim - as much as the type of information known to Bronze Age humans. This point was droppedby pro.
Pro goes to claim that:
“People also didn't know at the time that the Earth was round or that the universe was expanding. Or that not washing your hands before a surgery was deadly. Or that pigs meat carries diseases.”
People didn’t know any of those things until they were independently discovered.
Pro cannot possibly claim the Bible actually said any of these things - if no human at any point appeared to realize it said any of those things.
Pro has not given any specific passages or information for me to refute, so I have no specifics to argue against: but it seems likely that pro is simply interpreting vague passages with hindsight - such as how Nostradamus can be used to predict all sorts of current events.
4.1.) Laws of causality.
As explained - I showed how events can occur without having been caused. I provided evidence for this in source (6) and (7) in R1.
Pro again provides no rebuttal; only a link in lieu of an argument.
4.) Design / Moral law / Historicity
Pro has not offered an argument to refute or rebuttal my claims on these points.
Only links, somehow expecting me to refute an entire website in 10,000 characters, whilst he simply throws out links.
5/6.) Not affirmed the resolution / plagiarism
Pro continues to drop these points again.
Voting issues:
Conduct:
Pro Plagiarized his entire R2.
Pro resorted to posting dozens of links with no argument, and demanded that I go through and rebut the entire content of each.
Pro also resorted in two cases to Gish gallops where a half dozen claims were asserted in a single paragraph.
These are highly toxic behaviours and clearly warrant a conduct violation against pro
Sources
As explained in point 7, pro relies solely on a heavily biased and unreliable source. I have relied on a variety of scientific and contemporary sources to justify key claims made. Pro has used links instead of arguments, whereas I have linked specific sources to justify facts that form the basis of my thesis.
This clearly warrants source awards to con.
Arguments:
Con:My thesis is that the Bible, and the concept of God itself is most likely invented. Pro agrees all religions - except his - are invented.
Pro agrees Zoroastrianism is invented - and as shown, Zoroastrianism strongly influences the tenets of Christianity - pro challenged this via the timeline, but as shown above, there is no issue with Zoroastrianism having influenced early Judaism after the first versions of genesis were written - causing subsequent modifications.
I also showed that the bible is clearly a flawed book that fails to validate itself against the events it depicts, and falls short of a compelling book that appears to be written or influenced by a super being.
Pro offers no real argument against these latter points, relying both on base assertions, and Gish gallops to try and argue the Bible is compelling.
Pro offers no specifics, or passages for me to refute - and has resorted mainly to generic assertions in single line sentences that he appears to demand I look up, explain and rebut within my 10,000 character limit. Pro is clearly not arguing in good faith.
If the God of the Bible actually did exist : we would expect so much more than we see. We should expect to see direct evidence (as pro demands for evolution), unified theology and an overwhelming preponderance of believers - as the product of a divine super-being, we should expect nothing less.
Pro has dropped the overwhelming majority of points - so many that I have lost count.
Pro: Pro must show that the God of the bible exists and is real.
To this end: pro offers only two sets of arguments that support HISgod, over other gods. The historicity of the bible, and the truth claims in the bible.
The remainder of pros arguments can be ignored as even if they are accepted as true, they do not prove the resolution.
I have argued that the Historicity of the bible is largely irrelevant; as a fictional book can reference non fictional things. That it contains real history does not mean that the supernatural claims are all real.
I also pointed out that the same historical accuracy can be found in other religious books too.
Pro offers no argument against either of these positions. So must be considered refuted.
Pro also claims that the bible contains a number of truths: pro is vague, non specific and hasn’t explicitly stated what the Bible actually states, and how he can show it is true.
I showed repeated examples of where the bible falls foul of basic science, and basic claims.
Voters should note that the claims pro made about the Bible were not defended. And we’re made in two paragraphs including a half dozen claims each, no more than a few words for each claim.
Such assertions are not arguments, and cannot be countered or argued against in the confines of 10,000 characters. As such these assertions should be rejected out of hand on this basis.
From all of this, it’s clear that the only possible reasonable vote is for con.
Round 1
-Pro opens with a good framework to begin their side of the debate, which it appears will be strong circumstantial proof of a divine being or.as Pro puts it, a "Theistic God" I would have liked to hear further defining of how Pro will coalesce the evidence to prove that the theistic God is one god and that he is the God of the Bible. I did not see that, but I am giving Pro the benefit of a doubt.
-Con also opens with a good framework to try and punch holes in Pro's theory that there is even a diving being and that being is the God of the Bible. Con does this by questioning the institution of religions and the lack of evidence of a divine being. Con's rebuttal of Pro's first argument is premature since Pro has not defined the elements of their framework yet.
-Round one goes to Pro. (under the assumption that Pro will ultimately define the resolution). Merit goes to Con for their sources.
Round 2
-Pro elaborates on their opening argument points. Pro's argument lacks distinct rebuttals to Con's opening argument. Pro's sources are too vague they need pointed attribution and/or block quotes. Still no defined goal of reaching the resolution.
-Con calls Pro out on their lack of rebuttal. They also accuse Pro of Plagiarism (probably due to Pro's; lack of defined attribution to their source)
-Round 2 goes to Pro. (but just narrowly. Pro needs to define their resolution asap.)
Round 3
-Pro finally issues a rebuttal to Con's arguments but does not further their own position. Nor is there any movement on proving the resolution.
-Con clarifies their own points against Pro's rebuttals and still calls out Pro on plagiarism. Con rightly points out that pro as not affirmed the resolution.
-round 3 gore to Con. (still waiting on a Pro's defining of the resolution. That is their burden of proof)
Round 4.
-Pro is getting flustered and is, in my opinion, falling into Con's hands. Still no affirming of the resolution. Sounds like Pro is ready to give up, "There I think I am done. I love the 20th century way of debating, " Hastily throws out sources with no clarification of content.
-Con attacks the biases of Pro's sources. I personally have no problem with Pro stating sources that are biased toward their position, but they need to do more than plopping down source links with supporting statement..
-Round 4 goes to Con. (Still no defining proof of the resolution by Pro)
Round 5
-Pro offers some good arguments here. I especially liked the Flood evidence, which Pro gave sources for. Again though no defining or affirming of the debate resolution.
-Con restates their position and also highlights failings of Con's arguments as far as lack of source attribution, conduct, and plagiarism, which I agree with all except the plagiarism (was not intention, just laziness.).
-Round 5 goes to Con.
My Comment and Vote; This was a hard vote for me. I am a Christian as is Pro and I believe as they do that the God of the Bible is the one true God. So, I was rooting for Pro and gave them the benefit of a doubt in the first 2 rounds. But Pro did not define their framework as it pertains to the resolution, which was "The God of the Bible is the One True God" Nor did they prove it or affirm it. Con also did a good job of keeping Pro off their "game" and guiding the debate away from the resolution. Nicely done Con.. Therefore my vote is for Con
I'm enjoying the debate so far. Both sides have made excellent points in the first argument.
I believe the big bang could be god to. If i recall right in jobs he says his voice thunders
"ever heard of Brahma, Shiva, Vishna, Ganesha? Ever heard of Yu-Huang, San-Yuan, or Yuan-shih T'ien-tsun? What about Yama, Mahakala, or Yamanthaka"
I believe that all these gods are just demons. These demons called themselves gods because they wanted to feel powerful. similar to if a McDonald manager had all his employees refer to him as a master. If you believe that religion was created to control people. it makes no sense that all cultures would all come up with the same form of control. like Indians had no way to contact the Chinese. But they both worshiped gods. So what are the odds that there government would both come up with the same idea to enslave people with religions. I believe that demons headed to china called themselves gods. So they would get worshiped. Then went over to the Indians did the same trick. then they did it with the Afghanistan's and the Egyptians. They did this with every culture and that is why they all believe in a god. Because demons went to every culture calling themselves gods and them calling themselves god is like if a McDonald manager had all his employees refer to him as master. Thy wanted to feel powerful
Okay, the debate is ready! You can join now.
I think you mean monotheistic, not theistic. Religions that only worship one god are called monotheistic, not theistic.
I would not mind debating on the morality of homosexuality.
Well then those religions are not theistic, they are polytheistic.
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sigmaphil,
If one is a Christian, it helps to know the division of the faith that they are, Lutheran, Baptist, etc., their political stripes, their age upon the planet Earth, a short description of their other acceptances, and filling in some of the other pertinent information. A "good debater" should not be embarrassing to perform this simple act. The biography page is there for a reason, and that is to fill it out! Get it?
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Would you like to have a debate about the morality of homosexuality? You can argue that it is wrong, I will argue the opposite.
"I do believe that homosexuality is wrong and it is written in the table of our hearts. Why? Because people who commit homosexual acts have to make excuses to defend what they do. While no one has to make an excuse when they help grandma across the street."
Do you really think that homosexuals have to make excuses to defend what they do? I've never heard a single one try to justify their "homosexual acts". And using your logic, I could say religion is wrong since you are trying to justify your beliefs in this debate.
Ever heard of Brahma, Shiva, Vishna, Ganesha? Ever heard of Yu-Huang, San-Yuan, or Yuan-shih T'ien-tsun? What about Yama, Mahakala, or Yamanthaka? Those gods all come from Hinduism, Taoism, and Buddhism. For a theist, your ignorance about religion is astounding.
I believe the Big Bang happened when God said, "Let there be light." In the Hebrew this is actually talking about energy, an explosion if you will. I just don't believe it took millions of years.
I do believe that homosexuality is wrong and it is written in the table of our hearts. Why? Because people who commit homosexual acts have to make excuses to defend what they do. While no one has to make an excuse when they help grandma across the street.
Actually Hinduism, Taoism and Buddhism do not have gods.
People spout a lot nonsense. Just matters if they are willing to change their mind. Basically disprove their claims and if they don't listen move on. No point staying in staying with a person who can't comprehend what you are saying or even care.
Maybe I'll do a debate with him in the future. He's spewing so much unproven crap, no wonder he lost all of his debates.
Don't even grant him theism is truth. Make him demonstrate it. I doubt you would ever need to concede ground to a theist and if you do don't expect the same concession from them.
"Since theism is the truth, Then, That leaves with only three religions Judaism, Christianity and Islam."
Have you never heard of any other religions? Hinduism, Buddhism, Taoism, Sikhism, Zoroastrianism? These are all theisms too, you know.
"The reason why murder is just as wrong in America as it is in Pakistan is because the Moral Law is written in our hearts as the book of Romans tells us in the Bible."
Is that why sexual sin like homosexuality pedophilia the LGBT stuff is wrong. The morale law is written in our hearts ???
"The reason why murder is just as wrong in America as it is in Pakistan is because the Moral Law is written in our hearts as the book of Romans tells us in the Bible."
This is so true. when we observe people we see that those who do bad thing. Slowly loose the ability to feel bad about stuff when they do wrong. They sometimes mistake it and think there sociopaths. In reality this is because god has hardened there heart, and the thing we call guilt aka the holy spirit has left them.
But if a person try to do good we see that they have emotions and that god has not hardened there heart.
This can inherently be seen to be true.
those who do bad god hardens there heart. Those who do good god soften there heart. We cans see this to be true by just observing people.
Respectfully, I don't see why a debater's bio should be brought up in the debate? A good debater can argue for or against their own biases and do it well, so why should their bio be of any relevance?
Oops, sorry about that.
Wrong person.
Respectfully, I don't see why a debate's bio should be brought up in the debate? A good debater can argue for or against their own biases and do it well, so why should their bio be of any relevance?
Interesting. This is the first I've heard that Creationism began with the Big Bang Theory. Curious to see how this pans out in the debate.
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General Grant,
YOUR RELIGIOUS IGNORANT QUOTE: “That leaves with only three religions Judaism, Christianity and Islam. Just like a team has a roster and must make a lot of cuts, So with theism, Only one of these three religions has the truth.”
Your blatant misconception that only one of the said religions is true is historically laughable! This is because all three of said religions are based upon the Hebrew Abrahamic foundation, therefore they all have to be true, understood?! With this fact being said, therefore it is when all three of these religions blatantly contradict each other in their doctrines and precepts, will be your main problem in this debate. I am sure the astute Ramshutu will bring forth this proposition at your embarrassment and expense.
General Grant, is there some ungodly reason that you are too afraid to fill out your biography page partially, or in full? In this way, one truly gets to see your modus oprandi and where you stand upon other issues that can be referred too in debates. With your bio page remaining totally empty, speaks volumns in a negative way. As shown, your contender Ramshutu is not afraid to let it be known of his many acceptances in his biography page.
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Good, I hope it turns out all right.
it's fine, will be looking forward to this debate
Sorry, I did it twice to see how to put your name at the top. Hahahaha
Yes, I am.
Awesome!
@Dr.Franklin
Yes, I am.
Your back :)