Jesus's Resurrection

Debating

Waiting for contender's argument

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Debate details
Publication date
Last update
Category
Religion
Time for argument
Two weeks
Voting system
Open voting
Voting period
One week
Point system
Four points
Rating mode
Rated
Characters per argument
5,000
Contender
Description
I am going to waive the first round and Speedrace would have to wave the final round.
Pro: Jesus did resurrect and I can prove it
Con: No he didn't
Burden of proof is on Speedrace. If I fail to counter his claims sufficiently then he wins. If I do counter his claims sufficiently then I win.
Kind of an extreme burden of proof since I would have to debunk all his claims to win but given there isn't a lot to discuss I don't think this is too much to ask for.
I don't really want to add rules since I know they ain't going to be enforced and think if the previous rules are going to be broken I still think I can win if I do post arguments as well.
Thanks for reading and participating in whatever way you see fit.
Hopefully this is worthwhile.
Round 1
Published:
Wwwwaive.

Good luck Speedrace
Published:
Jesus, as we know, was an essential figure in history and was very influential; not only did he start the most famous religion in history, with over 2 billion followers, but our very dates revolve around him.
 
The Bible claims that Jesus rose from the dead. First, allow me to establish the reliability of the New Testament, where this claim is made.
To do this, scholars put together the interpretations we have now to establish what the originals were like. The more copies there are, the easier it is to reconstruct the originals. Another factor is how much time exists between the writing of the originals and the copies. Many documents that we’ve reconstructed with high certainty that they are accurate only have a few copies and can span over thousands of years. An example would be The Jewish War, which only has nine surviving manuscripts dating about four centuries after the originals. As you can see, historians are able to do a good job with this.
 
In comparison, the New Testament FAR outweighs any secular document. The one with the most is Homer’s Iliad with 647 copies. The New Testament has 5,366 separate Greek manuscripts. These were all written within a few hundred years of the originals. As you can see, we can have very high confidence that the New Testament is reliable. [1]
 
Now, having established the reliability of the New Testament, I will look at the various theories used to try to falsify the resurrection of Jesus Christ. I would like to say that the existence of Jesus as well as his crucifixion are facts and are not arguable. Unless my opponent asks me to, it is a waste of time to discuss that. I am focusing on what is debated over, which is the resurrection.
 
1.    The Swoon Theory
2.    The Hallucination Theory
3.    The Conspiracy Theory
 
The Swoon Theory
 
The swoon theory states that Jesus never died on the cross, but simply passed out. Let’s first examine the facts of the situation. We know that Jesus was severely beaten, stabbed, pierced with spikes and nails, was bleeding, and he even had a spear thrust into his side. The possibility that he could have survived this is ludicrous. However, besides that, he would’ve had to wake up, roll the GIANT STONE DOOR over the tomb, not a little bit, but all the way out, and he would have had to do all of that without alerting the guards who were posted outside.
Some people say that the guards fell asleep and that the disciples came and stole the body. However, in those times, a guard could lose their life if they did that, so that is simply not true. And even if they did, they would’ve been awoken by all of the noise.
 
The Hallucination Theory
 
This theory states that the people only hallucinated Jesus appearing to them after he had died. Hallucinations are individual events and cannot spread beyond just one person. Here is a list of all of Jesus’ appearances:
 
Luke 24:39 Jesus’ Own Testimony
Revelation 1:18 Jesus’ Own Testimony
John 20:14-16 Mary Magdalene
Matthew 28:9 The Virgin Mary
Luke 24:34 Peter
Luke 24:13-16 Two Disciples On a Road
John 20:19,20,24 The Disciples (except Thomas)
John 26-28 All of the Disciples
John 21:1,2 Seven Disciples
Matthew 28:16,17 Eleven Disciples
1 Corinthians 15:6 Over 500 people
1 Corinthians 15:7 James
Acts 9:3-5 Saul
Acts 1:3 Saul
 
That is over 10 appearances to over 500 people. Quite obviously, it is impossible for 500 people to hallucinate the same thing. The hallucination theory is false.
 
The Conspiracy Theory
 
This one states that the disciples stole the body themselves and fabricated the entire story. First of all, there are absolutely no records of this ever happening. Second, the accounts of Jesus appearing to over 500 people disprove this. Third, they had Jesus appear to women. Women were not considered reliable in Jewish culture, so if they were to fabricate it, they wouldn’t have included women. Fourth, a lot of the Bible is made up of personal letters that are clearly not meant for the public eye. If this theory were true, the personal letters would indicate the exchange between the people trying to determine the logistics of the whole ordeal, but this is not the case.
 
And, what is perhaps the biggest part of this, is that 10 out of 11 of the Apostles were martyred for their beliefs. Why do that unless they were telling the truth?
 
Finally, no written record has ever been shown to have found the body of Jesus Christ. Keep in mind, it was in the Romans interest to find the body and put down the Christian uprising instantly. However, that never happened.
 
So, as shown, none of the theories about the resurrection of Jesus holds up; except, of course, the fact that he did rise from the dead and appeared to people afterward. [2]
 
Sources
 



Round 2
Published:
I thank Speedrace for accepting and publishing an argument.


Since I waived the first round I will make it clear here what my opponent must do in order to provide evidence for Jesus's resurrection.
 
Types of evidence Speedrace can use is:
 
For the purpose of simplicity, I will narrow it down to the few Sr can use to provide the proof required. This would be testimonials, or scientific evidence.
 
So basically X person saw Jesus resurrect.
Or
Science can repeat it.
 
Now if it wasn’t clear already what Sr did. I’ll make it clear. Neither of them meets the scrutiny.
 
Repeatable

Given how sacred this is to Christians I don’t think they would even consider this can be repeated so we are left with only one way of finding proof. I’ll move on specifically talking about his argument before giving speaking about testimony given the context would be helpful to my point and to readers.

Now on to Sr's arguments:

In comparison, the New Testament FAR outweighs any secular document. The one with the most is Homer’s Iliad with 647 copies. The New Testament has 5,366 separate Greek manuscripts. These were all written within a few hundred years of the originals. As you can see, we can have very high confidence that the New Testament is reliable.
So an amount of something non-sequitur to the reliability conversation is somehow enough to state the Bible is reliable?
It is a non-sequitur because amount of copies does not equal reliability. If that is the case then Mein Kampf selling 5.2 millions makes it reliable in stating some white superiority excluding the Jews. If Sr decides to post ad hoc rationalize a new condition then his argument becomes weaker because when he first wrote this Sr thought the amount of documents equals reliability bearing in mind no-one who is credible at pretty much anything does this.

I would like to say that the existence of Jesus as well as his crucifixion are facts and are not arguable.
Even if I grant you this you still have a heavy burden which is not fulfilled given you would either have to consider Mein Kampf to be a reliable book or you simply add something then like I said earlier this would mean I have rebutted the claim forward and you had to resort to a weaker argument. I don't know a weaker argument than the argument you just made but I can wait to find out.

The Swoon Theory
 
The swoon theory states that Jesus never died on the cross, but simply passed out.
Complete non-sequitur to the point of this debate. It is about Jesus' resurrection not if he did die on the cross or not.
The Hallucination Theory
 
This theory states that the people only hallucinated Jesus appearing to them after he had died. Hallucinations are individual events and cannot spread beyond just one person. Here is a list of all of Jesus’ appearances:
Hallucinations are individual events yes but more than one individual at a time can be hallucinating. If this is your argument you are pretty much saying AIDS can't happen because they are individual events which the stats show otherwise.
That is over 10 appearances to over 500 people. Quite obviously, it is impossible for 500 people to hallucinate the same thing. The hallucination theory is false.
How is this impossible? You have yet to demonstrate it unless of course the hallucination statement you made before where only person can hallucinate. Think about if every single one of the followers smoked weed. Would they all be hallucinating how about all of them being near a plant that can cause hallucinations? All these explanations are more plausible then it being impossible.  
The Conspiracy Theory 
Just to make clear Sr is proving the negative can't be true so the positive must be true. There is a problem because you don't have the character space to do so and it would be much easier to demonstrate the positive if what you accepted was true. That Jesus did resurrect instead you are making it your mission to prove my side therefore my side must be wrong? That can't be the case because I didn't give an argument nor do I need to since it is as simple Jesus did or didn't resurrect. 

Just to make clear since Sr can't admit the resurrection to be repeatable he only has testimony to be anything where this can be proven. Given this link testimony must be reliable but the Bible is not a reliable source of information unless Sr would like to admit Mein Kampf is reliable as well. 

In order for Sr to show Jesus resurrected he must demonstrate the Bible is reliable but he hasn't.

So, as shown.... appeared to people afterward.
Clear admittance that he was stating the other side to be wrong instead of stating how his side is correct. 
Not published yet
Round 3
Not published yet
Not published yet
Added:
--> @crossed
He is a Christian. Look at his profile.
Instigator
#16
Added:
--> @TheRealNihilist
I did not know he said you were mean. i just assumed he was an atheist.
#15
Added:
--> @crossed
https://www.debateart.com/participants/Speedrace
Religion: Christian
Not on this topic he agrees.
Do you mean the prior debate or are you speaking about this one when you talking about me being mean?
Instigator
#14
Added:
--> @TheRealNihilist
Why you being mean to Speadracer. from past interactions it appears he mostly agree's with you guys ? I did not expect him to do a debate like this
#13
Added:
--> @crossed
Please don't post clickbait and thank you for reminding me Speedrace is engaging in strawmans. It was obvious.
Instigator
#12
Added:
This reminds me of this video.
https://youtu.be/-JMF6hkOnmY
#11
Added:
bumping it so I see it at the top.
Instigator
#10
Added:
--> @Speedrace
Wowee
Instigator
#9
Added:
--> @Speedrace
Same to you.
Instigator
#8
Added:
--> @TheRealNihilist
Yes, except you don't have an opening argument, not really, you just have rebuttals
Contender
#7
Added:
--> @Speedrace
What do you say to mine?
Instigator
#6
Added:
--> @TheRealNihilist
Is that a yes or a no?
Contender
#5
Added:
--> @Speedrace
You don't mind if I use my previous opening argument, right?
Instigator
#4
Added:
--> @TheRealNihilist
You don't mind if I use my previous opening argument, right?
Contender
#3
Added:
--> @Speedrace
Why not?
Instigator
#2
No votes yet