Instigator

God created Morality

Debating

Waiting for contender's argument

The round will be automatically forfeited in:
00:00:00:00
Debate details
Publication date
Last update
Category
Religion
Time for argument
One week
Voting system
Open voting
Voting period
One month
Point system
Four points
Rating mode
Rated
Characters per argument
10,000
Description
stuff like this can happen.
"Honor your father and your mother, so that you may live long in the land the LORD your God is giving you."
https://www.biblestudytools.com/gnta/passage/?q=deuteronomy+28;+deuteronomy+29;+deuteronomy+30;+deuteronomy+31;+deuteronomy+32
Round 1
Published:
Thank you for taking this Semperfortis


I will be making the claim that our actions and feelings can effect how long we live. and make the claim that this disproves natural selections and proves gods morale system effects us biologically.


I am going to list instances of Gods morale law effecting humans biologically.


A bunch of motherless babies are orphaned because of a disaster. These babies were well taken care of. all there necessary biological needs were met.they were fed and watered they diapers were changed. physically they were fine. but because they were not loved they all started to die off.They died from lack of love.


Most of these deaths were not due to starvation or disease, but to severe emotional and sensorial deprivation – in other words, a lack of love. These babies were fed and medically treated, but they were absolutely deprived of important stimulation, especially touch and affection.




An old man looses his wife. The man  dies not to long later from sadness.


Losing a loved one really can cause someone to die from a broken heart, scientists claim.

stress can kill you

Absolutely…Acute stress is the leading cause of sudden death, especially in young healthy people with no evidence of coronary disease. But it can fell people at any age. My grandmother is an example.

Holding On to Grudges can make you age faster. This confirms god word that wicked peoples life's are shortened by god himself


Life is too short and precious to hold on to old grudges. Learning how to let go and forgive may add years to your life and make the years you have left a lot more productive. (You might even notice fewer wrinkles from frowning.) Studies show that forgiveness leads to better physical, psychological, and spiritual well-being. Benefits include lower blood pressure, less depression, less stress, and less anxiety.


Natural selections makes the claim that the strong dominate the weak. But this assumes that Morales are just stuff taught to us by our parents. When in fact it actually  written in our hearts by god.  At first i mistook these instances as magic. Because of similar instances Like a dog being able to sense if you are a bad person or not. A dog being able to sense if your about to pass out or if you have cancer. or animals knowing that an earthquake is about to hit. these things  appear to be magical instances. Which is why i believe cats were used for magical ritual by the Egyptians perhaps they had similar ability's to the dogs. Anyway  the instances above are very similar to instances found in the bible.



you live longer if you obey your parents

"Honor your father and your mother, so that you may live long in the land the LORD your God is giving you."

a person who loves lives longer. i proved that lack of love can cut life short
Who is the man who desires life And loves length of days that he may see good?
if you obey god you days are lengthened
"If you walk in My ways, keeping My statutes and commandments, as your father David walked, then I will prolong your days."




life being prolonged by god
so that you and your son and your grandson might fear the LORD your God, to keep all His statutes and His commandments which I command you, all the days of your life, and that your days may be prolonged.


fearing god prolongs life. wicked life's are shortened
The fear of the LORD prolongs life, But the years of the wicked will be shortened.

Published:
Preface
Thanks to Crossed for instigating.
 
Burden of Proof
Since Pro is making the positive claim he assumes the full burden of proof.
 
== Rebuttals ==

Inadequate Evidence
Pro asserts that “God” created “morality”.  This is presupposed on the ontological commitment of both “God” and “morality”.  Both claims haven’t been demonstrated. Pro talks a lot about emotion (orphans, maternal-paternal relationships etc.) none of which evince the aforementioned ontological claims. Furthermore, Pro's references to "obeying God" have no relevence, provided that from Pro's opening case it is unclear whether or not "God" even exists. 

Pro unwarrantedly conflates "outward emotion" with "morality".  When we talk of “morality”, we are specifically referring to the “permissibility” of an action based on the notions of “right” and “wrong”.   Whilst it is true that displaying affection is an action, there is no moral context to constitute its relevance.

Until Pro can substantiate the existence of both “God” and “morality” the resolution is inadequately affirmed.
 
Over to Pro.
 


Round 2
Published:
Moral law
Give Freely


What this is based on.
God said to give freely


God said those who obey his laws live longer

if you obey the law of giving freely you live longer.


That is still true: Depending on one's age at the time of the annuity, annuitants on the average live 2-5 years longer than the general population





Morale law

We should love our neighbors


What this is based on
God said so



How do we know this to be true
God has made it so love can biologically effect us. a broken heart can literally kill you. babies who are physically fine died from lack of love



Moral law
People who do not follow gods rules are wicked.


What this is based on
Wicked people are not good according to god. He says the wicked lives are shortened



How do we know this is true
Wicked peoples life's are shortened. if i hold a grudge i age faster. the stress of lies can kill you. being angry can kill you

So, how do they link anger and mortality? “Prior work has linked anger with a variety of negative physiological processes, including atherosclerosis and endothelial dysfunction,” the researchers say, both serious diseases which can impair health and result in a heart attack.

Moral law
love others


What this is based on
god said to love others. he said those who obey my laws live longer


how we know this is true
loving others can make you live longer
Other health benefits that are correlated with loving and caring relationships include a stronger immune system, faster healing, better cardiovascular health, and less depression and substance abuse. But it's still not clear if the loving relationship causes these beneficial outcomes or if people with all these characteristics are more likely to be in a satisfactory relationship.



This puts a big fat wedge in the theory of survival of the fittest. Because Morales are not just stuff taught to us by our parents.
Published:
== Rebuttals ==
 
Misc
Pro defines morality to be the “loving of thigh neighbour” and asserts people are deemed “wicked” if they do not adhere to “God’s rules”.  He justifies this by stating that “wicked people’s lives are shortened”, be it from the stress of their lies or the grudges they hold.  What Pro fails to do is link God, morality, lies/grudges etc. together.  Prima facie, even if Pro’s affirmations were true, it does not follow that God created moral law and that those who do not adhere to it are reprehensible. 
Regarding stress, Pro has failed to link this directly to the violation of moral law and not some other psychological factor.



God
Pro still hasn’t provided evidence that God exists.  It is apparent his argument is circular; he uses God to show that moral law is true and uses moral law to show that God is true.
 


Self-refuting Sources

Pro asserts that loving others prolongs one’s lifespan, yet his own source states:

“But it's still not clear if the loving relationship causes these beneficial outcomes or if people with all these characteristics are more likely to be in a satisfactory relationship.”

Pro’s own source is uncertain of the conclusion, so how can Pro be?

Moreover, Pro’s sources regarding anger and lying do not articulate that the action itself is deadly, but rather the psychological effects that come with the stress of both of the actions.  It is akin to me stating that “exams can kill”, because they cause one to be stressed, which can lead to further problems, but it would be dishonest for me to state that it were the exam itself that was the cause.

Round 3
Published:
have you ever heard of when someone gives to someone in need. The person feels Good and happy afterwards. Have you ever heard the term it is better to give then receive. They say this because Giving gives you more joy then receiving something does. This is because Gods Morales effect us biologically. In this case the morale law is  pls give. Proof that this morale law exist is that it effects you biologically. if you give you are happy then if you have received something. because God rewards you for obeying his commandments.The opposite is true. Have you ever heard of the saying of how mean rich people are not as happy then when they were nice person and poor. The reason why they were happy when they were a nice person but poor is because when they got rich by stomping on other people and being an ###. Gods morale system effected them and made them unhappy.

Giving makes us happy. This is because Gods morale system effects us biologically

Giving to others adds 5 years to your life.  Giving is good for your health and helps out with diseases like aids.
If i have any chronic illnesses like Aids. giving will help me out with the disease. God made it so obeying his commandments Will have positive biological effect on a human. While disobeying his commandments will have negative effects biologically
Giving is good for our health. A wide range of research has linked different forms of generosity to better health, even among the sick and elderly. In his book Why Good Things Happen to Good People, Stephen Post, a professor of preventative medicine at Stony Brook University, reports that giving to others has been shown to increase health benefits in people with chronic illness, including HIV and multiple sclerosis.

Stephanie Brown of the University of Michigan saw similar results in a 2003 study on elderly couples. She and her colleagues found that those individuals who provided practical help to friends, relatives, or neighbors, or gave emotional support to their spouses, had a lower risk of dying over a five-year period than those who didn’t.

Those who helped friends and family life spans were all increased by 5 years compared to those who did not help.
There is that precise number 5 again.5 is a precise number. My hands have 5 finger my foot has 5 toes. 

So conclusion

If you give to someone in need you yourself become happy because Gods morale system effects you biologically. Same if your a mean rich person who stomps over other people but you become not happy.




Rebuttal
semperfortis stress can hurt you. It is strange that the bible has been saying for years that negative emotions effect you negatively biologically.But goo demotions effect us biologically positively.Holding a grudge. Make you live not as long. 

con said
Pro asserts that loving others prolongs one’s lifespan, yet his own source states:
“But it's still not clear if the loving relationship causes these beneficial outcomes or if people with all these characteristics are more likely to be in a satisfactory relationship.”
they do not know why this is. they do not know why loving others makes you live longer. Because evolution  believe that Morales are taught to us by our parents. the do not know why people who love live longer. this is like if i kill a bunch of children and my eyes turn red or yellow to show that i am evil. Plus this ignores how a bunch of babies died from lack of love. an old person dies right after a spouse died from sadness.

Misc
Pro defines morality to be the “loving of thigh neighbour” and asserts people are deemed “wicked” if they do not adhere to “God’s rules”

Moreover, Pro’s sources regarding anger and lying do not articulate that the action itself is deadly, but rather the psychological effects that come with the stress of both of the actions.  It is akin to me stating that “exams can kill”, because they cause one to be stressed, which can lead to further problems, but it would be dishonest for me to state that it were the exam itself that was the cause.

Stress is an emotion that can kill. why ignore all the other emotions. i'm sure stress can happen with anger and lying it may contribute to it but it is not 100 percent
Published:
== Rebuttals ==
God’s ‘moral system’ is ontologically committed to God – without empirical evidence of God’s existence Pro’s argument holds no weight.  Pro still has not demonstrated God's, nor moral law’s existence.  To repeat, Pro’s argument is circular; because God exists, moral law exists, and because moral law exists, God exists.  This is fallacious argumentation and ought to be rejected.  Pro requires empirical substantiation of his claims.  To assert moral law exists by virtue of a divine creator first requires evidence of the creator.
 
Over to Pro.
 
 

Round 4
Published:
Cons got this backwards. If gods Morales are hardwired inside of us it means god exist.Since gods Morale laws exist. It means the lawmaker exists
Not published yet
Added:
I recommend replacing “is ontologically committed to” with “assumes.” I find that easy-to-understand language is better debate strategy.
#11
Added:
anthropology shows that morality predates religion thats not to disprove the existence of god, just to remind you that all religious texts were written by men based on long dead religions that came before morality in the bible predates the abrahamic religions we know that by studying ancient texts.
#10
Added:
--> @TheAtheist
Cool lets save it for the debate
Instigator
#9
Added:
--> @crossed
I have nothing against you either. We are just discussing a topic. But if you want to save this discussion for the debate, I will do that. But before our conversation ends, I would like to say just one thing:
When people say "Evolution is a theory, not a fact", it really pisses me off. A theory in science is not a random guess (that would be a hypothesis). A theory in science is higher than a fact, because a theory explains why facts are true or false. For example: the theory of gravity. It's a fact that objects with a density higher than air fall when we let go of them, and the theory of gravity explains why that happens. Similarly, it's a fact that animals have random mutations which give them a higher chance of survival, but evolution itself explains why that happens. If you say that evolution is "just a theory", are you saying that gravity is "just a theory" as well?
#8
Added:
--> @TheAtheist
I am tired of this. I have nothing against you. Evolution is a theory not a fact.That is why it is called the Evolutionary theory. I have given you my reasons on why morale are biological. Can we just save this discussion for the debate you accepted.
Instigator
#7
Added:
--> @crossed
"We are not animals."
Actually, we are. Humans are part of the Animal Kingdom.
"Survival of the fittest and natural selection are not in play."
Actually, they are. Evolution is a proven scientific fact.
"But the moral system God created is."
You have not proved that such a moral system exists, you have not proved that God exists, and you have not proved that God is responsible for that moral system. So please, continue.
#6
Added:
--> @TheAtheist
we are not animals. Survival of the fittest and natural selections are not in play. But the Morale system god created is
Instigator
#5
Added:
--> @TheAtheist
morality is a biological thing
Instigator
#4
Added:
--> @crossed
So far, your argument has been that love and good behaviour result in a longer and happier life. However, this does not prove that morality is objective and it does not prove that morality has been created by God.
#3
Added:
--> @Ragnar
this is not a troll debate
Instigator
#2
Added:
Good luck on this troll debate.
#1
No votes yet