Instigator / Pro
Points: 8

what is god...

Finished

The voting period has ended

After 2 votes the winner is ...
TheAtheist
Debate details
Publication date
Last update
Category
Philosophy
Time for argument
One week
Voting system
Open voting
Voting period
One week
Point system
Four points
Rating mode
Unrated
Characters per argument
10,000
Contender / Con
Points: 14
Description
No information
Round 1
Published:
I'm going to start out by saying that god is not the following... a system... a person... a force...

     I believe that god is not a person because people can not fully understand our own brains fully like god does... there for god as a person could not have created us meaning he is not a person.

     I believe that god is not a system because systems are made by people, people can never know how to make another human being and this includes a system designed to make a human being.

     i believe that god is not a force because a force with no mind cannot do anything except for the what it is meant to do... and we have found no proof of a force designed to make sure everything is working in a way to create humans. if god is a force then we wouldn't call him a god.



     Now that i explained my thoughts on what i believe god CAN'T be let's talk about what i believe god IS.

     God is a living force with a mind of its own... a mind like the way we describe god today... willing to help... this living force i'm talking about could possibly have the ability to create OTHER forces to do jobs for him... or to override other forces and the way they work... this explains why there are glitches in the universe and why some people think our universe is a simulation. So with all of the other possibilities shut down... this is the only other possibility i can think of.
Published:
1. Definitions:
My opponent has failed to provide a coherent definition for the word "God". In one sentence, he says that God is not a force, and in another sentence he says that God is a force. This is counter-productive to our debate. For the purposes of clarity, I offer the following commonly accepted definitions for God:

1.The creator and ruler of the universe and source of all moral authority; the supreme being.
2. A superhuman being or spirit worshipped as having power over nature or human fortunes; a deity.


2. Main Argument:
I will be arguing two main points in this debate:

I. The accepted definition of God varies from my opponent's definition.
II. You cannot re-define a term with an accepted meaning to win a debate.

I. Accepted Definition Varies:
Even though my opponent's definiton of God is self-contradicting (he can't be a force but he's a force), let's ignore those contradictions and use it anyway. If we do that, we will find that it does not match with any definition of God offered by any philosopher or theologian. My opponent may say that words are a human-made concept, and are thus irrelevant - and he would be wrong. While words are human-made, the meanings behind them aren't, and we are talking about the meanings here.

II. Re-defining to Win:
Humanity has created set definitions for the word God, and you cannot re-define them just to win an argument. Here's an analogy for what my opponent is doing:

A: Hitler was a good guy.
B: Hitler commited mass genocide and started a world war.
A: Nope, by "Hitler" I meant George Washington and not Adolf Hitler. And since you agree that Washington was a good guy, you lose!

Can't you see how anybody could re-define any term to win any argument whatsoever?


3. Rebuttals:

" I believe that god is not a system because systems are made by people"
WRONG. A system is a group of elements working together to achieve a common goal. Animals are systems, yet they were not created by people.


"and we have found no proof of a force designed to make sure everything is working in a way to create humans."
Evolution. That is the force that created humans.


"God is a living force with a mind of its own"
My opponent just said that God is not a force, and now he's saying that he is.


"willing to help"
Tell that to the millions of Jews that were sent to the gas chambers, to the millions of people that lived in shit and died from starvation, and to the millions of people that were slaves for their entire lives. Tell that to the millions people that were killed by plagues and diseases, to the people that were killled in political repressions, to the people that were killed in wars and terrorist attacks. If God is willing to help, he's not doing a great fucking job at it. Pretty bad results for a mind that can ovverride forces and is willing to help, don't you think?


"this explains why there are glitches in the universe and why some people think our universe is a simulation"
There are no glitches in our universe. Glitches only occur in systems that are designed to work towards the same goal. The universe is not designed and it does not work towards the same goal, so it by definition can have no glitches in it. Prove that it's a simulation first and then we'll talk.

============

Maybe I sounded a bit too harsh, but it's late, I'm tired, and I have school tommorow. In your next argument, please offer a coherent definition of God and explain what we are arguing about in this debate. Thanks.













Round 2
Forfeited
Forfeited
Round 3
Forfeited
Forfeited
Round 4
Forfeited
Forfeited
Round 5
Forfeited
Forfeited
Added:
--> @Nicko75442
You should explain your position more in the next round. In the future, make sure to explain your position in the debate description.
Contender
#7
Added:
--> @TheAtheist
sorry if you misinterpreted what i was trying to say... i'm not very good at explaining things... which is why i made the debate have 5 rounds.
my friend looked at my argument and said nothing was wrong with it... she said that nothing was wrong with it... that's because she understands what i'm trying to say. if you wanna understand and continue the argument then try thinking from a 2nd perspective and then a 3rd. then you should understand what i'm talking about fully.... most people think they know but they don't because when they explain it, they never explain what i said correctly
Instigator
#6
Added:
--> @janesix
when i say living force i mean a force with a mind kind of its own unlike gravity but a force that has developed. i know that god can't be a person cause the human mind cant understand itself fully there for god as a person could not have created us.
Instigator
#5
Added:
--> @Nicko75442
Can you be more specific
#4
Added:
--> @Nicko75442
ok
#3
Added:
--> @Dr.Franklin
living force
Instigator
#2
Added:
--> @Nicko75442
What is your stance
#1
#2
Criterion Pro Tie Con Points
Better arguments 3 points
Better sources 2 points
Better spelling and grammar 1 point
Better conduct 1 point
Reason:
Both forfeited every round after the first, but con made a strong counter argument (catching built in contradictions, using historical examples to add even more, etc.) which as the cut-off point for the debate, with plenty of opportunity to be defended against, takes home the argument points.
#1
Criterion Pro Tie Con Points
Better arguments 3 points
Better sources 2 points
Better spelling and grammar 1 point
Better conduct 1 point
Reason:
"i believe that god is not a force because a force with no mind cannot do anything except for the what it is meant to do... and we have found no proof of a force designed to make sure everything is working in a way to create humans. if god is a force then we wouldn't call him a god."
"God is a living force with a mind of its own"
This complete contradiction presented by Pro (which Con addressed) basically killed whatever point they had to begin with. Pro started out with three premises: that god is not a person, system, or force... and then goes on to conclude that god is a force. That and the fact that Con rebutted the points presented by Pro gives Con the win in the argument category.
Neither side used sources, the minor S&G mistakes made by Pro don't dramatically impede the ability for the audience to understand the main point presented, and Conduct is tied, since they both forfeited 4 rounds.
Wow I feel like Ragnar with the amount of stuff I put into my RFD. <--- Compliment to Ragnar ;)