Instigator

Explosions can only destroy

Debating

Waiting for instigator's argument

The round will be automatically forfeited in:
00:00:00:00
Debate details
Publication date
Last update
Category
Science
Time for argument
One week
Voting system
Open voting
Voting period
Two weeks
Point system
Four points
Rating mode
Rated
Characters per argument
10,000
Contender
Description
Scientist say that an explosion from nothing created life. Explosions can only destroy. the nuclear bomb can not create life. When America nuked japan we killed people. Nuking something can not cause life to start.
Con has to prove how an explosion can create life. I waive first round.
Fire can only burn
Explosions can only destroy.
This is like saying fire created water
if scientist say explosions can create life. Surely they have evidence for it. I mean why would our government promote propaganda like this.
If you go off topic you forfeit the debate. I don't want to hear how you believe other animals turned into other animals .I want to hear how an explosion can create life.
Round 1
Published:
Waive. This was made out of frustration. I hope you can tell me how an explosion can create life. Ramshutu Good luck
Published:
0.) Resolution, terms and Burden

The following should be noted before we begin.

0.1.) “Scientist say that an explosion from nothing created life”

This is simply not true. No scientist say this at all. This statement is an over-simplistic and incredibly misleading misrepresentation on our scientific understanding of the 13.6bn years of cosmic existence.

The Big Bang is the origins of our universe, and life came indirectly from it due to natural processes within that universe.

0.2.) Interpretation of the Burden.

Working under the assumption that pros over simplistic description covered in 0.1 is not intended to be deliberately deceptive; what pro is demanding for this resolution is an explanation of how life can arise abiotically from the Big Bang.

This appears to be the intent of the debate, despite pros use of overly simplistic and loaded colloquial terms.

0.3.) Burden

My burden here is to provide a reasonable explanation of how life could originate naturally from the Big Bang. Due to the character count of 10,000 and the nature of modern knowledge, it’s not possible for me to prove the laws of cosmology, abiogenesis and evolution.

1.) How life came to exist - according to science

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MabLtuTpDw8

1.1.) The “Explosion”

The Big Bang refers to the initial expansion of the universe; during this time the universe was incredibly dense with all the energy that is in the universe in a single, imperceptibly small region of space where all 4 of the fundamental forces appear as manifestations of the same single force.[1]

The “explosion” refers to the expansion of this high energy, high density universe. It is not a chemical or nuclear explosion, as pro implies. The energy and matter in the universe were not propelled in every direction: but the space itself expanded.[2]

Measurements of the universe today indicate that the universe is expanding - meaning in the past it was much closer together.[3]

The evidence shows there was an “explosion” - we can even measure it.

1.2.) Matter, gravity and energy.

The high density and energy within universe produced matter and anti matter, - as through quantum fluctuations energy can be converted to matter -which due to a process called “Charge Parity Violation”, was created in very slightly different amounts, causing the early universe to be full of quarks, which then combined to form protons and electrons.[4][5]

As the initial universe was dense, and hot there was an initial period of cosmic fusion, where most of the observed helium and hydrogen, and some lithium was created. The observed quantities of primordial elements match the predictions of the Big Bang theory.[6]

As the expansion continued; the universe cooled from a hot dense plasma to the point where visible light could pass through without scattering and being absorbed. At this point, the hydrogen was emitting energy based upon its temperature - which we can still observe as the Cosmic Microwave Background radiation.[7]

The “explosion” leads to the existence of Matter.

1.3.) Coalescence of matter.

Due to minor quantum perturbations, the universe is not completely smooth, and clumps of hydrogen begin unbalancing the gravity in the massive universal cloud of gas: which starts attracting to form the first stars and galaxies.[8]

Through a process of fusion, these massive stars converted helium and hydrogen into elements up to iron - including vast quantities of carbon and oxygen.[9] 

Matter lead to formation of stars.

1.4.) supernovae and heavy elements

Once fusion fuel in the star starts to burn out; many large stars go through a process of going supernovae. Here the star begins to collapse as the energy from fusion no longer counter acts as a balance to the gravity trying to crush the star. The star collapses, but the collapse crushes the matter, producing heat and energy which blows away the top layers of the star, with a massive neutron flux from the core that is capable of breeding elements up to uranium from existing material. The explosion blows the material into space.[10]

The first Stars lead to the creation of heavy elements

1.5.) Clouds form solar systems 

Elemental rich nebulae and clouds formed by super novae begin coalescing due to gravity: in hydrogen rich locations these create new stats, with elemental rich planetary discs of elemental gas.

This gas - through gravity begins coalescing into small specs, then tiny asteroids, then planets of chemically rich make up.[11]

(We’ve observed these forming! [12]) 

Elemental clouds lead to planets.

1.6.) Planets form life

If a planet forms with a make up containing lots of carbon, hydrogen, nitrogen, oxygen, and many other common elements - and is at a distance from the sun that allows water to exist in liquid form: the energy from the sun can produce basic organic components, such as amino acids[13], nucleic bases[16], and lipids [14]

In conditions with high energy, such as deep sea vents of tidal pools, chemical conditions can produce lipids and produce lipid bilayers, [14] and self assemble chains of RNA [15]

The chemical behaviour of basic phospholipids, single nucleic bases can enter, but chains cannot leave: if a protocol encapsulated RNA, the RNA can grow, which through osmotic pressure will case the lipid bilayer to split in two: causing a primative type of division.[17]
 
As RNA can catalyze it’s own replication in the right structure[18]: if a phospholipid encapsulates a first self replicating RNA. Chain; it will replicate, expand, divide, replicate, expand, divide: producing the first form of proto life.[19]

At this point, the proto-organism becomes subject to selection pressure: the faster it replicates, the faster it can build its lipid structure - the more it can replicate and the more resources it can take: leading to a positive feedback loop of evolution that continues until this day, where these natural process can produce people who claim they owe their existence to magic.[20]

Planetary chemistry leads to life.

Conclusion:

TL;DR: There was a Bang... the energy in the Bang produced matter... matter and gravity produced galaxies and stars... Stars produce heavy elements during explosions... dust clouds with heavy elements produce planets... planets produce life.

Bonus refutations!
 
Fire can only burn”
Fire can be used in redox reactions to produce things like iron and steel.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LM4VOW6xZ5Y

Explosions can only destroy.
Nuclear bombs can produce new elements; both by fission and fusion.
https://theconversation.com/the-search-for-new-elements-on-the-periodic-table-started-with-a-blast-52862

This is like saying fire created water
Fire - literally - produces water. When you burn gas you produce co2 and water.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire


Sources:
[1] http://ircamera.as.arizona.edu/NatSci102/NatSci/lectures/eraplanck.htm
[2]https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/according-to-the-big-bang-1999-10-21/
[3] http://curious.astro.cornell.edu/about-us/104-the-universe/cosmology-and-the-big-bang/expansion-of-the-universe/626-how-is-it-proved-that-the-universe-is-expanding-intermediate
[4] http://curious.astro.cornell.edu/ask-a-question/101-the-universe/cosmology-and-the-big-bang/general-questions/570-where-did-the-matter-in-the-universe-come-from-intermediate
[5] https://www.britannica.com/science/CP-violation
[6] http://w.astro.berkeley.edu/~mwhite/darkmatter/bbn.html
[7] https://ned.ipac.caltech.edu/level5/March03/Lineweaver/Lineweaver7_2.html
[8] http://abyss.uoregon.edu/~js/ast123/lectures/lec25.html
[9] https://www.astro.princeton.edu/~gk/A403/nucsyn.pdf
[10] http://curious.astro.cornell.edu/ask-a-question/84-the-universe/stars-and-star-clusters/nuclear-burning/402-how-are-light-and-heavy-elements-formed-advanced
[11] http://astronomy.swin.edu.au/sao/downloads/HET620-M09A01.pdf
[12] https://astrobiology.nasa.gov/news/planets-still-forming-detected-in-a-protoplanetary-disk/
[13] https://astrobiology.nasa.gov/news/miller-urey-revisited/
[14] https://m.phys.org/news/2018-07-century-old-life-significant-substantiation.html
[15] https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/9ffd/315d2aacd2d2d50c6d44993d146c09039635.pdf
[16] https://www.wired.com/2009/05/ribonucleotides/
[17] https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/1/1/e1400067
[18] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK26876/
[19] http://exploringorigins.org/protocells.html
[20] https://answersingenesis.org

Round 2
Published:
Thanks ramshutu. I agree with the burden. I appreciate you trying but this makes no sense unless there is god. I don't want to argue how life was formed naturally over time. Which a lot of you points deal in that.



1.1.) The “Explosion”

The only point in this debate that says something is that they can measure that the universe is expanding and claims it can be measured. This and maybe the point below it is the only points that deal with the explosion itself the other is things forming naturally. If this did happen it is God who did it. he created life from nothing. But it make's sense because there is a cause. But Why would space expanded  itself create an explosion that creates chemicals. that create life.



The high density and energy within universe produced matter and anti matter,
Where did the high density and energy come from we are still  at the nothing stage and how did it create matter and anti matter.
You need to explain how an explosion can create something

The Big Bang refers to the initial expansion of the universe; during this time the universe was incredibly dense with all the energy that is in the universe in a single, imperceptibly small region of space where all 4 of the fundamental forces appear as manifestations of the same single force
If a bunch of energy existed. Then you are starting with something and not from nothing.




- as through quantum fluctuations energy can be converted to matter -which due to a process called “Charge Parity Violation”, was created in very slightly different amounts, causing the early universe to be full of quarks, which then combined to form protons and electrons.[4][5]
Who converted it. Who created the processes of charge parity violation. if The laws of the universe states that everything must be perfect stuff must always be proportionate or the same depending on what would logically make sense. clearly the one who wrote the laws is god because nothing can not wright laws. especially laws of physicists that state everything must be perfect.


Charge-Parity violations refer to a problem with something called symmetry in the universe. The term is used in reference to certain types of properties; if these are properties are changed to their opposite and the universe remains the same as it is now, they are said to be symmetric.
You remember what symmetry is with my god measured stuff debates.

As an example, a spatial transformation would mean moving the universe some distance in a certain direction. As the laws of physics are the same everywhere, moving the whole universe 3 miles to the left, for example, would not change anything about the universe – in fact there would be no way to tell anything had changed! We would say the universe is symmetric in terms of space




The Laws of Fundamental Forces in Physics have an EXTREMELY NARROW range of parameters that will result in a Universe that is Life-Sustaining
It is like some SUPERINTELLECT has monkeyed with the Laws of Physics, (as well as with chemistry and biology) so that the Universe WILL sustain Life....

    • will detail some interesting "coincidences" below.... there are just TOO MANY to list all of them

  • PRELUDE

    • But first, let me give you some preliminary information that help you understand/appreciate these findings

    • The four fundamental forces where discovered and measured EMPIRICALLY and INDEPENDENTLY

    • That means that:

      • There is NO OBVIOUS RELATIONSHIP between these four forces.

    • With the advent of powerful computers, Physicists studied the effect when the STRENGTH of some force is changed
    • The findings are nothing more than amazing....


  • Changing the Strength of the Gravitational force

    • The gravitational force pulls all matters together.

    • hydrogen atoms are compressed together under the tremendous gravitational pull and the outer electrons are stripped by the tremendous heath. The remaining protons are converted to alpha particals (He-4) in the proton-proton cycle: click here

    • The gravitational force is 1039 times weaker that electro-magnetic force.


    • Making gravitational force stronger:



  • Measuring the universe expanding


    Astronomers observed that light from distant objects in the universe is redshifted (shift in the frequency of light towards red color), which tells us that the objects are all receding away from us. This is true in whatever direction you look at: all the distant galaxies are going away from us. This can only be due to the fact that the Universe is expanding.
     The universe  expanding does not mean the big bang happened. Why did space decide to start expanding in the first place. What caused space to start expanding. why would space expanding cause life to start. plus all there really measuring  is objects are moving. And we conclude that must mean space is expanding.

    Conclusion

    the big bang happens and all he chemicals form because the laws of physics states everything must be perfect and constant. ????
    If this did happen it would be god. I might concede because it is god who did this.Mind you i don't think the natural process happened. i don't think it happened over millions of years.




    The stuff after the explosion created the chemicals is irrelevant to the topic. This debate is strictly how an explosion created stuff.

    These points irrelevant to debate


    1.3.) Coalescence of matter.


    supernovae and heavy elements


    ) Clouds form solar systems 


    Planets form life




    Explosions can only destroy.
    Nuclear bombs can produce new elements; both by fission and fusion.
    This is not what i meant but con meets the burden of proof explosion do not just destroy. What i was trying to get answered has not been answered.You have not proved the big bang is real but you proved that an nuke bomb had material for chemicals and the material turned into chemicals. Which meets the burden of proof that i have explosions can only destroy. note the bomb already had the material for the chemicals inside the bomb. It is not something coming from nothing.But it still counts


    plus the big bang would start expanding back on itself. If it happened like scientist say.


  • Density of WATER

    • The ONLY substance whose density is LOWER in the SOLID state than in the LIQUID state is WATER
      Consequently: Ice FLOATS on water

    • This very nature of water is vital to LIFE and is Unique among ALL molecules:

      If ice did not float on water, the oceans would freeze from the bottom up because ice - when frozen - will SINK to the bottom and CANNOT be MELTED by sun's rays !
      The earth would now be covered with solid ice.
      ---- Barrow and Tipler, The Anthropic Cosmological Principle. Oxford: OUP, 1988, pp143-144, 524-541.
      --- Also Cf. D. Wilkinson, Our Universes (New York: Columbia University Press, 1991), pp171-172.


    • Why is water unique in this respect ?
      The "scientific explanation" goes into the crystal structure of ice and so on.
      But what should the crystal structure of ice have this special property and all other crystal structures do not ???
      It is as if someone foresaw that without this property, there won't be life and DESIGNED this property into the Universe so that life CAN exist....

  • I can name a bunch of these coincidences. No relevance



    Published:
    0.) Burden

    Pro accepts my burden, and dropsall other points. Pro agrees I do not have prove each intricate detail of modern cosmology. As pro does not challenge my interpretation of the resolution - this should stand.

    1.) How did...
    “You need to explain how an explosion can create something”
    “why would space expanding cause life to start”

    Pro asks this several times - I refer him back to points 1.1 -1.6 where this is covered in broad detail.

    Pro does not challenge the explanation by offering evidence that some aspect of my explanation impossible; instead Pro offers the three following types of argument:

    2.) Goddidit....
    “If this did happen it is God who did it. he created life from nothing. But it make's sense because there is a cause.”
    “You remember what symmetry is with my god measured stuff debates.”
    “If this did happen it would be god. I might concede because it is god who did this.Mind you i don't think the natural process happened.”

    In the last round, I provided six explained stages, combined with confirmatory evidence. Vehemently claiming that Goddidit, with no explanation, and no evidence can be dismissed as bare assertions.

    Whether or not God did it or not, is irrelevant to the resolution: that it is possible for the Big Bang “explosion” to create things.

    3.) But why did..
    “Why would space expanded itself create an explosion that creates chemicals. that create life.”
    “Where did the high density and energy come from we are still  at the nothing stage and how did it create matter and anti matter.”
    “Who converted it. Who created the processes of charge parity violation”

    As pro agrees at the start, I do not have the burden to prove the entire laws of physics; just to provide a reasonable explanation of how the big bang could lead to life. 

    What pro is doing here is moving the goal posts by demanding that I explain not just how the Big Bang could produce life, but also to explain why the laws of physics are the way they are. This should obviously be rejected as unrelated to the resolution.

    4.) Something from nothing.

    Pro seems incredulous at how something could come from nothing.

    This is again moving the goal posts and mostly irrelevant to the resolution. The “Explosion” was not “nothing”, it was the expansion of space and time, with vast quantities of energy. The resolution does not require me to explain where the explosion came from.

    Pros argument here is like demanding that I explain how a piece of metal could destroy a city; then when I explain the details of nuclear fission weaponry; then going on to demand that I explain where the metal came from.

    5.) The universe would have collapsed.

    Pro asserts that the universe would have collapsed by now if it the Big Bang happened.

    Pros source states : 
    IF the density of the matter is equal to 447,225,917,218,507,401,284,017 mg/cc, the Universe would have collapsed by now.
    It then goes on to explain the density of the universe is less than this: thus pros own source conflicts with his claim.

    Summary:

    • Pro agreed to the burden of proof, I provided my burden of proof.
    • Instead of responding pro instead tries to move the goal posts.
    • Pro offers no specific counter claims.
    • Pro simply asserts Goddidit

    Round 3
    Not published yet
    Not published yet
    Added:
    --> @Ramshutu
    But you know, the big bang might've never happened...
    #24
    Added:
    --> @crossed
    What explosion, the big bang or the explosion caused by craters to create water and "SPACE INGREDIANTS" for life
    #23
    Added:
    https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL8dPuuaLjXtMczXZUmjb3mZSU1Roxnrey
    Actually this crash course might be more useful to you. Its calles big history and its essentially a fusion of science and history to chronologically connect the big bang to today.
    #22
    Added:
    --> @crossed
    Explosions create heat. Heat is necessary for chemical and nuclear reactions to happen.
    We are all born simple men (and women). It is up to us to improve ourselves. If your going to try to use science in a debate, it helps to understand science. Everything is explaoned in the crash course, from the big bang, to suoernova fusion. The videos are only 10 minutes.
    #21
    Added:
    I am a simple man. Just want to know how an explosion can create something.
    Instigator
    #20
    Added:
    --> @Nemiroff
    https://youtu.be/ogSttUF9mbo?t=55
    Instigator
    #19
    Added:
    --> @crossed
    A supernova is an explosion.
    The big bang was not an explosion.
    Nobody knows what was before the big bang.
    https://www.space.com/25126-big-bang-theory.html
    Your site was a kids site. The big brand theory speaks about our universe, not anything beyond or before.
    You seem to lack fundamental understanding about science. If you wish to use science in an argument, i would recommend learning the fundamentals before driving into specific articles. Please try crash course on YouTube. They host many simplified college freshman level courses on many science, history, and other subjects
    https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL2vrmieg9tO1lr_VYDP1anWdp4jmlt9RX
    This is a link to their astronomy series. This will help put your articles into perspective.
    #18
    Added:
    --> @Nemiroff
    it seems There is no right answer. A lot of scientist believe it was an explosion. Some believe it was a supernova. Right now i am arguing against the people who think it was an explosion. not the supernova
    Big bang came from nothing According to most articles i find. Now they may say it could be something else but there is just as many scientist who say it came from nothing as well as something. if it did not come from nothing then it was not the beginning of the universe
    Instigator
    #17
    Added:
    --> @crossed
    Supernovaes are not from nothing.
    Big bang was not an actual explosion, and we dont know whether it came from nothing, from a singularity, or from something else.
    #16
    Added:
    --> @Nemiroff
    ok how can explosions or supernova create anything from nothing
    Instigator
    #15
    Added:
    --> @crossed
    Actually explosions can create. Not life but its ingredients.
    Big bang, as i explained, was not an explosion. But Supernovas are. And they are what formed all the heavier elements that are required by life.
    #14
    Added:
    The debate is explosions can only destroy. I can easily prove this
    Instigator
    #13
    Added:
    --> @Nemiroff
    OK your still saying an explosion created life.
    explosion created your chemicals. Then the chemicals turned into life
    Instigator
    #12
    Added:
    "We believed that universe started with an explosion. This explosion is called Big Bang. According to the Big Bang theory, at the very beginning, there was nothing but a point. In this point was matter densely packed in a very hot state. It exploded and the universe sprang to life and it is now expanding, thanks to that explosion!"
    https://factslegend.org/big-bounce-not-big-bang-created-universe/
    Instigator
    #11
    Added:
    --> @crossed
    We dont know what was before the big bang, so it either created or released all the energy, time, and space that is our universe. Life came much much later, right after the big bang, it was too hot for even fundamental particles to exist, forget about complex organic molecules. Most of yohe elements involved in life wont form until the first generation of stars fuses them.
    #10
    No votes yet