Instigator / Pro
7
1711
rating
33
debates
84.85%
won
Topic
#1431

Humans Should not Boil Lobsters Alive

Status
Finished

The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.

Winner & statistics
Better arguments
3
0
Better sources
2
0
Better legibility
1
0
Better conduct
1
1

After 1 vote and with 6 points ahead, the winner is...

Trent0405
Parameters
Publication date
Last updated date
Type
Standard
Number of rounds
3
Time for argument
One week
Max argument characters
4,000
Voting period
One week
Point system
Multiple criterions
Voting system
Open
Contender / Con
1
1294
rating
75
debates
18.0%
won
Description

You must argue it is better to boil lobsters alive, not necessarily that it is moral to boil them alive.

BOP shared.

Also, no religious arguments.
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Example---The Flying spaghetti Monster said it was okay to boil lobsters alive.

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@bmdrocks21
@Trent0405

On the legality angle, it would make a lot of sense to debate the topic on moral reasons a couple times, and then maybe debate on legal grounds with the well defended morals as the assumed basis.

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@Trent0405

Ok. I knew you weren't going to argue for legality. I just wasn't sure if your stance meant you wouldn't legislate it irl.

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@bmdrocks21

It is cruel to assume a lobster can't feel pain, and then boiling it alive when the science is far from being able to determine if they can or can't feel pain, pigs in slaughter houses are killed quickly and humanely, lobsters should be as well. Also, it wouldn't even be an inconvenience to restaurants seeing that you could just use cold water or a knife as a substitute which is free.

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@bmdrocks21

I don't think it should be legal.

I do think it's animal cruelty, I'm just not interested in that argument so I opted to exclude it from the debate via the resolution.

BTW I disagree with the Swiss and New Zealand restrictions that force the use of an electric stunning machines(2900 euros) when there are moral free/cheap ways to kill lobsters like stabbing in certain area's, or purchasing cheap fish anesthetics.

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@Trent0405

I guess a better question would be: Why shouldn't this be considered animal cruelty in your eyes?

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@bmdrocks21

Because I'm not interested in going down that road, arguing if it should be legal or not is very stale to me.

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@Trent0405

If you think we are making animals suffer, why wouldn't you want it to go into law?

Votes?

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@billbatard

Lol

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@Trent0405

is so!

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@billbatard

This isn't about socialism

what does socialsim have to do with boiling a lobster alive?

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@bmdrocks21

Socialism in its pure form is anti economics itself. It doesn't support the concept of anyone having more than anyone else for any reason other than their need for it.

Capitalism in its pure form is about taking away as much as you can from those who either want and/or need something and selling it back to them for as great a drawback of other things they want and/or need as your competition won't sell lower/less/cheaper than in such a convenient manner.

Both backfire and deny a major element of human nature and society. Socialism ignores that we have selfish motives and want independence to get what we want, not just need, based on how hard and smart we work and handle our wealth. Capitalism ignores that society will break apart and be totally enslaved to a monopoly that owns all industries, politics and is a permanent dictatorship because as each industry has the dominator eat away at others, eventually all the leaders will form a cross-industry cartel and that will be the 'Illuminati Elite' that rule over all. The end result of Socialism is an Elite brutally making things unpleasant and unfair on everyone. The end result on Capitalism is exactly the same.

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@RationalMadman

But isn't capitalism a right-wing economic structure while socialism is left-wing?

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@bmdrocks21

you can find any excuse you want. The entire Africa is either extreme left wing but still really capitalist (zimbabwe and such) or extreme right-wing. SA is maybe an 'exception' but it's still very, very right-wing.

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@RationalMadman

Based on government size, property rights, regulatory efficiency, open markets, etc India is ranked rather poorly.

India: #129
Kenya: #130
Uganda: #95
Somalia: N/A

https://www.heritage.org/index/ranking

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@bmdrocks21

They support capitalism in a very unadultered form, are ruled by the rich, for the rich and do not inhibit competition beyond what is necessary to appease the masses from revolting too much. They are minimalist in size and beaureacracy, aim to leave the market as free as possible and only truly care about power and profit, in terms of policy.

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@RationalMadman

How are those countries right-wing?

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@bmdrocks21

I see. So you are for the right-wing approach yes? That of India, Kenya, Uganda, Somalia and such. Is this correct or incorrect? Do they not embody right-wing ethos?

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@RationalMadman

Nope, before and after. Hence being against communist and socialist genocides.

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@bmdrocks21

Care so much for the life until it's out of the womb, eh? Then it can rot in a slum amirite?

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@RationalMadman

And atheistic ideologies such as communism/socialism are responsible for the deaths of over 100 million people. Left-wing people are less often religious and they are fine with millions of unborn babies being aborted. Christians are against both of those. :)

It's like Halal Meat where they refuse to kill the brain of the animal with a stun gun before.

Anyone who refuses to stab the brain of the animal before doing the killing procedure is a sadist who deserves great pain brought upon them,

Whether you use electric collars for your dog's barks or declaw your cat, which leaves it feeling and experiencing what life would be like without your fingers, breasts/cock and eyelashes etc (their entire feeling of sexiness and self esteem comes from how well-kept their claws and fur are, more so their claws)... You deserve great pain brought upon you.

Any religion that says animals have no souls is a vile religion. Notice that Christianity and Islam are both responsible for such great atrocities in treating both humans and animals? They both say animals have no souls.

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@Nemiroff

Idk lol. That is why I was asking. I am not prepared for a culinary debate.

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@bmdrocks21

Is there a difference in taste between living boil and getting stabbed through the head just before being dropped? Assuming that kills them.

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@oromagi

Seal whacking is where it is at, bro.

I think I could argue that a lobster’s death is less cruel than most chickens or pigs or even crabs. Man, I have whacked a lot of lobsters in my life.

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@bmdrocks21

Correct, my main point is it is immoral to boil lobsters alive.

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@Trent0405

I'm guessing your argument is a moral one and not about how tasty it is if you prepare it differently, right? lol

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@Trent0405

I've never really thought too much about this argument to be honest. I would have to do a decent amount of research before beginning.

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@bmdrocks21

This is actually a topic I care a lot about, I haven't heard a convincing argument on the opposing side so I'm gonna stick my neck out on this site.

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@Trent0405

This is a really interesting topic! I shall think about joining.