Instigator

Metal Healing Properties

Debating

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Debate details
Publication date
Last update
Category
Religion
Time for argument
Two weeks
Voting system
Open voting
Voting period
One month
Point system
Four points
Rating mode
Unrated
Characters per argument
10,000
Description
"Pro has to prove it is more likely that God is the reason these positive effects exist.
Con has to prove these positive effects are more likely to be natural."
Burden of proof split 50/50
Round 1
Published:
This Debate is to explain instances like these came to be. Gold and silver biological effects on humans. I am making the claim that this is basically magic and such only God could have done this. And con is saying this could be formed naturally

For those that are skeptical, consider that researchers at the University of Southampton have proven that wearing a specific type of silver ring can help alleviate some symptoms of arthritis in the hands.
Here is the study they are referring to

Here are some health benefits of silver if you wear it.

Sliver helps the body heal faster. Helps fighting colds if you wear it.
As a metal, silver has significant health benefits that have been used across cultures for centuries. Silver has a proven track record as a powerful antimicrobial agent fighting infections and aiding in cold and flu prevention, wound healing, and more.

Silver regulates our body's hormones if worn
Silver also helps with internal heat regulation and circulation. Many have reported improvements in energy levels and balance in moods after wearing silver, as its natural properties may offset outside electrical disturbances, improve circulation and overall body temperature balance, and help maintain cleanliness and immunity.

Silver staves off infections which is why we use it to make medical equipment out of it
Silver has a long history in antibiotics and sterilization, with many women and men wearing silver jewelry to stave off infection, cold/flu symptoms, and any other virus, bacteria, etc. This health benefit is one of the reasons why so many manufacturers choose to make medical devices and tools out of silver.


As you can see these benefits are to great to have just happen out of nowhere.In order to create rocks that can heal you from sickness. The creator would have to have knowledge of the inner workings of the body. In order for silver to gain the ability to regulate hormones in the body. The creator would have to have knowledge on how the body function And then design the silver to regulate the hormones.
Lets say someone Body is producing to much melatonin or to little melatonin. Lets say to much melatonin is 100 mg and to little melatonin is 50 mg. But lets say just right is 75 mg.Lets say My Body is producing to much of this sleepy hormone at 100 mg. This is bad i am no sleeping beauty. So i put on a silver ring to precisely dial my hormone's back to 75 mg.My silver ring precisely dialed my body's hormone's to 75 the perfect amount for me. Firstly For the silver ring to be able to do this. The creator of the silver ring would have to have knowledge on What is the right amount of each hormone is. Then use That knowledge and design Silver to Precisely fine tuned the body to release the right amount of each hormone at the correct time. He used knowledge only an intelligent being can use knowledge according to the definition of intelligence. Since the creator would have to use knowledge. Only an intelligent being could create silver.


intelligence
  • The ability to acquire, understand, and use knowledge.




Silver regulates hormones in the body. So Silver precisely dials the amount of hormones that is released so only the perfect amount can come out.
It must be god who did the original precise dialing of the hormone so only the perfect amount is released and he programmed silver to precisely dial the perfect amount of hormones the body release's
So God precisely dialed  the perfect amount of hormone the body releases through silver.


Why i believe silver and gold is worth so much money.

Back in the day of Jesus. Stuff like mhrr oil and frankincense. plus other medical plants were worth a lot of money.For example turmeric was worth more then gold back in the day of Jesus.The part that was worth so much in turmeric was the curcumin. Curcumin can reverse damage done by schizophrenic medication. I believe they knew this and that is why it is worth so much because god told them. Other oils and perfumes were worth a lot of money to And they two had insane health benefits.I also believe the Indians got there Medical plant knowledge from God as well. 70 percent of drugs today come from plants so what i am saying here is true.Beware Big pharma anti information campaign against turmeric. Big pharma has been spreading false Study's against this plant so people do not use it.

Additionally, turmeric’s antioxidants have been found to reverse the effects of damage caused by pharmaceuticals, particularly in the treatment of schizophrenia. Commonly-prescribed antipsychotics often cause involuntary muscle movements and severe behavioral changes

  • Treating hay fever
  • As an antiseptic to clean and treat wounds
  • As a paste to help stop bleeding

  • The mainstream media appears to be the ally of drug companies. Exaggerated, embellished, and possibly fabricated headlines regularly make bad guys out of natural remedies that evidence suggests protect and heal us.

    70% of new drugs come from Mother Nature
    So i believe plants were worth so much because they had insane health benefits. I believe the same is true with gold silver and copper. I believe they were worth so much because of there insane health benefits.


    Jesus juice

    You'll be shown why one healing spice was worth more than gold during the time of Jesus
    It is also believed that the Gold they gave to Jesus was actually turmeric.If you mix turmeric myrrh oil and frankincense oil. The three gifts believed to be given to Baby Jesus by the three wise men. you can make a tonic that is as old as recorded history.Just  from these 3 ingredients.

    This holy tonic is as old as recorded history
    Yet known to very few…

    Believed to be Gods first recipe. This holy tonic has had its first test done in the 21st century's.

    It’s often referred to as “God’s First Recipe”

    And today, as 21st century scientists begin to study
    this tonic for the first time ever…

    This Jesus juice has so much health benefits it is practically magic.


    They’ve been shocked by just how powerful it truly is
    Swallowing just the tiniest amount can:
    • Guard your body from the ravaging flames of unchecked inflammation
    • Strengthen your memory and increase your alertness…
    • Soothe achy, swollen joints and muscles…
    • And nourish literally every fiber of your being.



    Conclusion of this statement

    Gold was worth so much because of it's health benefits.

    Plants were worth so much because of it's health benefits.



    Gold health benefits if you wear it.

    Blood Circulation
    Use gold to improve blood circulation which in turn regulates the oxygen flow to every part of our body. This helps to keep yourself fit and away from sicknesses.
    So gold Helps with Blood circulations. To relegate something you have to have knowledge what is the correct amount of something. So Gold precisely dials the amount of oxegen in the body. To where there is not to much oxegen and not to little Goldilocks zone exactly perfect.
    I believe it is God who created the metal to precisely dial our body's oxegen flow and regulates it.


    Gold precisely dials  the amount of oxegen that flows in the body. It has to be god because he is the only one who can create something that precisely dials anything.


    God precisely dials the amount of oxegen in our body through Gold.



    Regulates Body’s Temperature
    Gold is used to regulate the body’s temperature control mechanism which protects us from outside temperature variations and further it also boosts immunity.

    Think of this like cooking if i dial the oven at 500 degrees my food would burn. If i dial the oven at 100 the food will not cook. But if i precisely dial it at 325 the food would cook perfectly. Gold does the same thing. If my body is to hot at 100 degrees i am sick. If it is at 20 degrees i am dead. Gold precisely dials My body temperature to 90. I believe it is god Who Did the original precise dialing and he programmed these effects into gold.
    Published:
    Introduction

    As previously clarified the full resolution of this debate is essentially "The healing properties of metal can only exist as a result of the supernatural intervention of a god". Pro will be required to show why this statement is most likely true, I will be required to show why it is more likely to be false.

    Therefore this debate is not about pros claimed 'healing properties'. It is about pros claim that this is the result of supernatural intervention and my claim that he is not logically justified in saying so. So for the sake of simplicity I will not be challenging the truth behind the claims of any such properties that pro has described thus far. I will be uncritically accepting all the claims made in round one regarding these properties at face value regardless of the actual veracity of the claims (which the audience may look into at their leisure if they are interested in the subject) so that this debate might stay on the intended topic of the supernatural intervention claim made by pro which forms the resolution of this debate.

    To conclude my short introduction I will point out that as no formal structure has been mandated by pro either in the forum post they challenged me to this debate in, the comments section of this debate, the description of this debate, or within pros round one argument then I will be assuming that pro is okay with assuming a less formal structuring for this debate. To this end I will be using my round one to both respond to pros round one and to build the positive case required of me by the shared burden of proof.

    Review of Round One by Pro

    As stated before I will be accepting many of pros claims without question - at least the ones regarding the properties of metals - regardless of how justified they may or may not be in reality. There are some parts I take issue with, however. The following quote comes after describing some of the properties of metal which this debate is about:

    Lets say My Body is producing to much of this sleepy hormone at 100 mg. This is bad i am no sleeping beauty. So i put on a silver ring to precisely dial my hormone's back to 75 mg.My silver ring precisely dialed my body's hormone's to 75 the perfect amount for me. Firstly For the silver ring to be able to do this. The creator of the silver ring would have to have knowledge on What is the right amount of each hormone is. Then use That knowledge and design Silver to Precisely fine tuned the body to release the right amount of each hormone at the correct time. He used knowledge only an intelligent being can use knowledge according to the definition of intelligence. Since the creator would have to use knowledge. Only an intelligent being could create silver.

    The claimed property in this case is that the minute amounts of silver absorbed through the skin by a person wearing a silver ring are capable of chemically interacting with and reducing body levels of the hormone melatonin. Is this claim justified? Doesn't matter, I have already agreed to act as if it is because this debate isn't about that. So where does that leave us? Well it is obvious that "Silver does good therefore supernatural" does not actually stand up to close scrutiny. Voters will note that pro has not even tried to explain why supernatural intervention is required for silver to react with melatonin in this way. I doubt I need to point this out to anyone reading this but I will anyway.

    There is a more important thing to note here however. Pro has now firmly established here that their position on the resolution revolves specifically around certain substances (in this case silver) having certain effects because the creator has a specific goal in mind for that substance (in this case to do good for the body). This will be important later.

    The next part of pros round one essentially claims the following:

    Back in the day of Jesus. Stuff like mhrr oil and frankincense. plus other medical plants were worth a lot of money.For example turmeric was worth more then gold back in the day of Jesus.The part that was worth so much in turmeric was the curcumin. Curcumin can reverse damage done by schizophrenic medication. I believe they knew this and that is why it is worth so much because god told them. Other oils and perfumes were worth a lot of money to And they two had insane health benefits.I also believe the Indians got there Medical plant knowledge from God as well. 70 percent of drugs today come from plants so what i am saying here is true.Beware Big pharma anti information campaign against turmeric. Big pharma has been spreading false Study's against this plant so people do not use it.

    In summary:

    1) Some plants have medical uses
    2) People from ancient times knew about these medical uses
    3) The only way for them to know this is for god to tell them.

    The first and second claims here are essentially truisms but the claim that people can only know about the medical use of plants because they were informed of these uses by god is the important point here. The problem is that pro does not even try to justify this. In fact he seems to contradict this third premise himself by pointing out that many modern drugs are derived from plants. These derivations were synthesized as a result of our knowing about the various effects of these plants and - more importantly - studying and understanding the mechanisms behind these effects. If modern people are capable of discovering new uses for plants without supernatural intervention then why should ancient people who had the same brain capacity available to them be unable to do the same? The answer is that there is no reason they should not be able to do so, they were in fact perfectly capable of exactly that.

    The part of pros argument that talks about some guy selling "jesus juice" for $60 per bottle... I honestly don't understand how that part relates to the debate.

    In conclusion pros round one essentially boils down to "Step one, X substance is good. Step three, god made it so that X substance it good". Pro leaves it quite unclear as to what step two might be as no connection is drawn between something being good and some supernatural intervention being required to make it that way.

    Examination of Purpose

    Previously pro stated that their creator deity had a specific purpose in mind when deciding how silver would interact with biology. They claim that the purpose of silver is to assist biological functions and that everything was designed around facilitating this by god. I claim that this explanation is less likely to be true than it is to be false.

    The two most likely scenarios that come to mind that would actually explain what we observe are evolution and random chance. These are obviously two very different scenarios but I will talk about the simpler of these two scenarios first, that being random chance. Perhaps I will talk about the non-random natural options such as evolution in a later round. Perhaps not, who knows? For now I will ignore them.

    For now let's focus on random chance and goddidit as out two main hypothesizes. There are two very different expectations for what we would see in the world depending on which of these is actually true.

    If god specifically created the properties of silver for the purpose of assisting biological functions we would expect to see:

    1) In some cases silver has a positive effect.

    2) In no cases does silver have a negative effect.
    Alternatively...

    If there is no supernatural intelligence intervening and random chance was the primary factor we would expect to see the following:

    3) In some cases silver has a positive effect

    4) In some cases silver has a negative effect
    Number 1 and 3 are the same, so we can simplify to:

    If god specifically created the properties of silver for the purpose of assisting biological functions we would expect to see that in no cases does silver have a negative effect.

    If there is no supernatural intelligence intervening and random chance was the primary factor we would expect to see that in some cases silver has a negative effect
    So the question is, do we ever see silver having a negative effect on biology? The answer is of course yes.

    In round one pro linked a news article about a scientific study (the one about whether silver or plastic should be used as arthritis splints). Here I will link not to a news article about splints but instead to an actual scientific paper whose subject is the toxicity of silver in cells. Examining the effects of silver ions on toxicity levels and such. I cannot go into too much detail due to character limitations so I will simply link the paper below the relevant quotes for anyone wishing to read it themselves. It is rather short as scientific papers go, but the only parts relevant to the debate are the following:

    Liu and Hurt have studied the dissolution of silver nanoparticles at different pH and found an increase of the ion release at lower pH. We can therefore assume that the silver nanoparticles will undergo accelerated dissolution after endosomal uptake. However, the time in the cell culture medium is much longer than the time in the lysosome, therefore the toxic action of silver is probably due to both effects.

    Our hypothesis that the release of silver ions determines silver toxicity was confirmed by cell culture experiments. If the nanoparticles were stored under argon, they did not partially dissolve and therefore were much less toxic towards tissue-like cells than the same particles stored under air.
    Due to the fact that silver toxicity is already a well-documented phenomenon the paper was less focused on the effects of silver toxicity and more on its causes. It is still possible to extrapolate somewhat on its negative effects by comparing the positive controls with the silver-poisoned results in each sample.

    I have less than 200 characters remaining, not enough for a proper round conclusion, so I will simply leave it there and let the debate proceed to round two.
    Round 2
    Not published yet
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    Round 3
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    Round 4
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    Round 5
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    Added:
    Shiiiiiiiit I forgot to link the paper
    https://pubs.rsc.org/en/content/articlelanding/2014/tb/c3tb21569e#!divAbstract
    Contender
    #10
    Added:
    Like I said it's up to you when you want to end it bud. You really haven't done much so far other than restate the resolution though...
    Contender
    #9
    Added:
    --> @Discipulus_Didicit
    once we get to round 3 then we can decide if we want to go further. I do not want you to get the wrong idea. 5 rounds to get my idea through might be needed
    Instigator
    #8
    Added:
    I am putting together my round one now.
    Five rounds seems a bit long for this debate but I am willing if that is really what you want. If at any point you wish for the debate to be shorter I am fine with that though. For example if you decide after three rounds that we have talked enough then you can just put for round four and five "Cutting the debate short as suggested by my opponent in the comments" or something like that and I will just put "Agreed" in my round four and five, or at any other point if you wish.
    But like I said I am willing to slog through five whole rounds... just seems like that will be more than necessary.
    Contender
    #7
    Added:
    I'm working 60 hours this week so it may be a few days before my round one is complete. I will do so though, thanks in advance for your patience.
    Contender
    #6
    Added:
    --> @Discipulus_Didicit
    Good luck
    Instigator
    #5
    Added:
    Agreed. I show that it is more likely that such effects do not require a supernatural intelligence to be behind them.
    Contender
    #4
    Added:
    --> @Discipulus_Didicit
    Just so were are clear you are telling me how it formed naturally not how it works.
    For example lets say a crystal protects you from wireless signals. I say god did this.And you say no the rock sends off magnetic field that blocks WiFi signals. in this example you did not prove that it formed naturally but merely told me how the rock works.
    Instigator
    #3
    Added:
    --> @Discipulus_Didicit
    Alright
    Instigator
    #2
    Added:
    I reccomend you use part of round one to explain to the audience just what healing properties you are referring to. I know what you mean because I was on the thread that started this debate and you talked about it there but not everyone voting on this debate will have seen that thread.
    You don't have to do this but I recommend it because it will help your case by reducing confusion among the voters, thus limiting the possibility of me using some unforeseen technicality to steal a win.
    Contender
    #1
    No votes yet