Instigator / Pro
Points: 2

The Reason Canada has less violent crime than the USA , is that it has stricter gun laws

Finished

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After 1 vote the winner is ...
Trent0405
Debate details
Publication date
Last update
Category
Philosophy
Time for argument
One week
Voting system
Open voting
Voting period
One week
Point system
Four points
Rating mode
Rated
Characters per argument
10,000
Required rating
1
Contender / Con
Points: 7
Description
Strict guns laws in Canada are Part of the Reason Canada is much safer place than USA , they are not the only reason but they contribute to a safer culture https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/Canada/United-States/Crime https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/Canada/United-States/Crime
Round 1
Published:
Resolved, a significant factor in Canadas safe environment is that its attempts to strictly regulate guns have paid off
Homicide rates and violent crime rates in urban and rural areas are lower mostly because stricter gun laws reduce the availability of deadly weapons to the wrong sort
Published:
Sources

My opponent’s source doesn’t adjust for population on certain figures, and seeing that America has a population which is much larger than that of the Canadian population, this is crucial.


Population Density

Well, America does have more murder and rapes. This is because of population density, which is the biggest cause of crime and a cause of violent crime. Well America has a population density of 35.97 people per square KM, while Canada only has 4.114 people per square KM. Even Canada’s most populous city(Toronto) has a very low population density compared to other big cities.


Guns

This debate title implies that guns are causing more violent crime, well 2 US states hold gun laws in the same class of gun control as Canada, Illinois and California. So the 2 US states that are the strictest on guns, and that are the most similar to Canada for gun laws should have low crime rates right? Well, these 2 states hold the 13th and 21st highest violent crime rates statewide. Note how states with loose gun laws don’t have high violent crime rates. Of the top 9 states that have the loosest gun laws, 5 rank below average for violent crime rates(Wyoming, Vermont, Mississippi, Utah, Kentucky). 


Poverty

If you look at the “biggest causes for crime source”, poverty is second to population density, and yes my “violent crime causes” source also states poverty’s impact on violent crime. Well the US has a poverty rate that is 200% of the Canadian Poverty rate. If we look at the 2 other poverty standards in my source, Canada trounces America by 240%, and 300%.


Culture

America has a more violent past and culture, Frank Porporina even stated “We are more disapproving of violence in Canada.'' Note that Frank Proprina is apart of the attorney general's research division, so certainly a worthy source. 


Drugs

My violent crime causes source points out the impact drugs have on violent crime. Well America has some incredibly high drug use rates when compared to America.

Round 2
Published:
I would like to focus on one important issue population density okay fine, lots of space in Canada but then explain this and this goes to drugs and violent culture everything because big cities are basically the same multcultural Canadian cities are full of cultures from all over the world all sorts of races and creeds  https://theculturetrip.com/north-america/usa/california/articles/the-10-most-multicultural-cities-in-the-world/   https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2018/sep/04/canadian-cities-where-minorities-are-the-majority-markham-brampton   So how does Toronto compare to the top 10 largest cities in the United States? While our violent crime rate may be higher than some, our homicide rate is still well below all cities of comparable population.
Murder rates by city population:
 

City 
Population
(2010)
 Violent crime
rate (per 100,000)
 Homicide/Murder
rate (per 100,000)
 New York, NY
8,336,002
581.7 
6.4
Toronto, ON 
5,697,027* 
907 
1.4 
 Los Angeles,  CA
3,841,707
559.2 
7.6
Chicago, IL 
2,833,649
NA
15.2
Houston, TX 
2,280,859
986.1 
11.8
Philadelphia, PA 
1,558,378
1,189.4 
19.6
Phoenix, AZ 
1,544,427
518.1 
7.6
Las Vegas, NV 
1,416,401
893.0 
7.6
San Antonio, TX 
1,392,198
605.8 
5.7
San Diego, CA 
1,313,433
427.6 
2.2
Dallas, TX 
1,306,775
701.0 
11.3  Violent crime is defined by StatsCan as: homicide, violations causing death, attempted murder, sexual assault, sexual violations against children, assault, pointing or discharge of firearms, robbery, forcible confinement or kidnapping, abduction, extortion, criminal harassment, uttering threats, harassing phone calls, violent violations. the defintion of violent crime is very different in canada crimes we consider or dont count as violent canada adds to its statistics



https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/Canada/United-States/Crime violet crime when adjusted by defintion and reporting methods is actually 3 times higher in the usa MY POINT IS canadian cities are just as dense and just as mulitcultural and as a rule much safer  Cnadas most dagerous cities are actually safer than our safest cities https://www.immigroup.com/news/top-16-worst-major-cities-canada-crime-rate-2019

Published:
BoP

My opponent is making a positive, therefore he has the BoP.


Cities you Pointed to

Chicago


L.A

Los Angeles has strict gun laws.

Houston

Has some fairly lenient gun laws.

Philadelphia 

Philadelphia has strict gun laws

Phoenix


Las Vegas


San Antonio

Once again becoming difficult.

San Diego


Dallas


Your argument merely proves my point, a city with strict gun laws like Chicago can have much higher homicide rates than another city with strict gun laws like Toronto.

Extend the rest of my arguments as they remain largely untouched.

Round 3
Published:
i wish to make a very important point NO CITY IN AMERICAN HAS STRICT  gun laws none.. we need to define a term

what does it mean to have strict gun laws
 you use this term i n a relative fashion 
actually i will conceed one point it is easier to get a ggun in toronto than it is in new york city

new york city actually does have strict gun laws ,and consequently very low crime ratees, not saying its the ony reason guilianni was a law and order guy but even conservative guilianna supported strict gun laws bacause he knew they workedhttps://www.ontheissues.org/Celeb/Rudy_Giuliani_Gun_Control.htm  As mayor, suggested federal gun licensing  https://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Justice/2018/0103/Why-New-York-crime-has-plunged-to-record-lows
https://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Justice/2018/0103/Why-New-York-crime-has-plunged-to-record-lowsIt’s tougher to buy a gun here than in most places, but if you follow the rules you can probably get one. Here is how it works.
Who can buy a gun in New York City?
Anyone who is 21 years old or above and has American citizenship can buy a gun in New York City. Apart from American citizens, those who have an Alien Registration Card are eligible to purchase a gun, too. If someone has lived less than seven years in the country, then he or she would have to submit a good conduct certificate from their country of origin and two letter of references to certify their good character.

gun laws in canada are uniform they are the same all over the nation, in the usa they vary from city to city so one can just drive to another city and buy a gun easily that is why us gun laws can not be said to be strict at all

Published:
BoP Clarification

My opponent is making a positive, therefore he has the BoP.
I meant making a positive claim, not making "a positive." Also my opponent has dropped this, therefore I'd implore voters to believe the BoP is on Pro.

Rebuttals

i wish to make a very important point NO CITY IN AMERICAN HAS STRICT  gun laws none.. we need to define a term

what does it mean to have strict gun laws
 you use this term i n a relative fashion 
actually i will conceed one point it is easier to get a ggun in toronto than it is in new york city
My opponent fails to source his claim that New York has more gun control than Toronto. I've established certain states that are in the same class of gun control as Canada and stated how they're unsafe. So, yes there are cities in America with comparable gun laws to cities in Canada. If you mean this in the terms of guns being bought in a loose gun control area and being moved to a strict gun control area, there are restrictions on this, and my opponent has failed to prove that this is a big problem. Also, wouldn't you still expect cities with stricter gun laws to have lower violent crime rates seeing guns being bought inside the state would still be limited and only a small percentage would come across another state.

gun laws in canada are uniform they are the same all over the nation,
Well, this is good, now we can look at the number 1 gun possessing political subdivision per 100,00(Yukon) and know it's not because of shipping across provincial/territorial borders.

Yukon only has only 1 high outlier for crime, and 1 low outlier for crime. So, the number gun possessing political subdivision per capita  doesn't have abnormally high crime as you would expect.

Other

NO CITY IN AMERICAN HAS STRICT  gun laws none

new york city actually does have strict gun laws
Clear contradiction, maybe Pro is statin NYC is the only place to have strict gun laws, or it has the strictest, but this again is contradicted by the text below.

It’s tougher to buy a gun here than in most places, but if you follow the rules you can probably get one. Here is how it works.
Note how it says most, meaning NYC doesn't have the strictest gun laws.
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#1
Criterion Pro Tie Con Points
Better arguments 3 points
Better sources 2 points
Better spelling and grammar 1 point
Better conduct 1 point
Reason:
Correlation =/= Causation
Anyway, con uses a ton of sources to show a more likely cause of population density, and when pro listed cities, he listed their gun laws to highlight the low level of confidence connecting that as the primary influence to the problem in question. Flipping a point so brutally gets extra credit.
Plus, pro accidently conceded things in his first run on sentence: "mostly because stricter gun laws" ... If it were because of ten reasons, but mostly one, it would still not be because of that one alone which the resolution implies. ... Still, credit for some rapid improvement.