Instigator / Con
Points: 6

Antarctica aliens

Finished

The voting period has ended

After 3 votes the winner is ...
oromagi
Debate details
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Category
Religion
Time for argument
Two weeks
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Open voting
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One month
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Four points
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Contender / Pro
Points: 21
Description
Your profile says you live in Antarctica and you have an alien profile pic. With the alien in Antarctica being pushed by mainstream media this is very weird .
The new York post wrote this.
https://nypost.com/2017/12/11/discovery-in-antarctica-changes-everything-we-know-about-aliens/
similar Antarctica aliens article
https://www.express.co.uk/news/science/618769/Antarctic-UFO-mystery-deepens-after-researchers-find-tanks-guarding-alien-crash-site
Why are so any mainstream outlets saying there could be aliens in Antarctica. What is going on.
In ancient books like the book of Enoch that are not cannon.
It says god chained a bunch of demons in a frozen desert. and they would be released in the last day.
https://youtu.be/Bez4DKZI7yU
Round 1
Published:
Thanks for taking this.


Many celebrity's spent the 2016 elections the day president trump won in Antarctica.

For example john Kerry our secretary of state went to Antarctica.



On Election Day, the Secretary of State was headed out of town
Now we did not need to know that our politicians are ruled by demons. Even though they have fooled people. Many conspiracy theorist believe that our politicians are lizard People. The real answer is not aliens but demons. I believe the demon just casted an illusion of a lizard to trick the person into thinking he was an alien. So he would say Hillary Clinton is a lizard person and discredit himself. So no one catches on that most of our politicians are possessed by demons.

Weird books like the book of Enoch. Not cannon has some weird stuff that can not be true. But i believe there is truth in legends. The book says some demons were imprisoned in Antarctica.


Now i can hear you asking There aliens. If they are aliens why would they stay in Antarctica. All of these paranormal activity's happen in Antarctica. If they are aliens. They would be able to leave. But these being can not leave Antarctica. They are trapped in Antarctica. Because these entity are trapped. If they were aliens they would not be trapped. These demons have been sealed there by god.


Even the Nazis went to Antarctica during WW2

Hitler went to Antarctica looking for ancient relics with magic powers.
Remember Hitler Got his idea's about ruling Germany is because he went to a hypnotist

Did a hypnotist who treated Adolf Hitler for shell shock in 1918 by using his 'desire to be like a God' help spark the Second World War?
Why does Hitler hate god's chosen people so much. Could it be because he visited  a hypnotist and  demons gave him the idea.

Hitler see's a hypnotist. After hypnotist he believe he will rule Germany.Could Hitler have gotten visions of glory from demon's.

This is proof it was not aliens but demons. Because demons give hypnotist powers. Plus demons could have given Hitler vision of glory.


Conclusion

Celebrity's went to Antarctica. Hitler went to Antarctica. people think he did because of aliens. This is proven false because direct evidence of demon activity is found. When Hitler gets his vision of ruling Germany after seeing a hypnotist. Hypnotist is proof that it is demon encounters and not aliens.


Here is some footage of the Antarctica base.



The rest of my argument will be taken from this video

.After John Kerry went to Antarctica on election day. He goes to new Zealand and there was an earthquake. Perhaps Gods judgement at work. A religious leader went to Antarctica


It is believe the ark of Gabriel was taken from Antarctica. Killing 2000 people. The Russian main stream media presented this ark of Gabriel information as fact.The mainstream media in Russia said it was a fact that Russia had a special mission and they took something called the ark of Gabriel.




Published:
Thanks, crossed, for instigation

Let's note that PRO argument is so scattered that laying down a single arguable proposition is difficult.  CON best effort amounts to:

RESOLUTION:  JOHN KERRY and ADOLPH HITLER ARE LIZARD PEOPLE WHO ARE ACTUALLY ALIENS WHO ARE ACTUALLY DEMONS TRAPPED in ANTARTICA.

DEFINITIONS

JOHN FORBES KERRY is "an American politician who served as the 68th United States Secretary of State from 2013 to 2017. A member of the Democratic Party, he previously served as a United States Senator from Massachusetts from 1985 until 2013. He was the Democratic nominee in the 2004 presidential election, losing to Republican incumbent George W. Bush." [1]

ADOLF HITLER was "a German politician and leader of the Nazi Party.  He rose to power as Chancellor of Germany in 1933, and as Führer in 1934.  During his dictatorship from 1933 to 1945, he initiated World War II in Europe by invading Poland on 1 September 1939. He was closely involved in military operations throughout the war and was central to the perpetration of the Holocaust." [2]

REPTILIANS (also called reptoids, lizard people, reptiloids, saurians, Draconians) are "purported reptilian humanoids that play a prominent role in fantasy, science fiction, ufology, and conspiracy theories.  The idea of reptilians was popularised by David Icke, a conspiracy theorist who claims shape-shifting reptilian aliens control Earth by taking on human form and gaining political power to manipulate human societies. Icke has stated on multiple occasions that many world leaders are, or are possessed by, so-called reptilians." [3]

ALIENS [plural noun] are "any life form of extraterrestrial origin." [4]

DEMONS [plural noun] are "supernatural and often malevolent beings prevalent historically in religion, occultism, literature, fiction, mythology, and folklore; as well as in media such as comics, videogames, movies and television series." [5]

ANTARCTICA is "Earth's southernmost continent." [6]

BURDEN of PROOF

Wikipedia advises:

"When two parties are in a discussion and one makes a claim that the other disputes, the one who makes the claim typically has a burden of proof to justify or substantiate that claim especially when it challenges a perceived status quo.  This is also stated in Hitchens's razor. Carl Sagan proposed a related criterion, the Sagan standard, "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." [7]

There can be little doubt that PRO's stacked claims are extraordinary or that the burden of extraordinarily convincing evidence is entirely on PRO to produce. PRO must provide indisputable evidence that John Kerry and Adolph Hitler are/were malevolent beings of supernatural origin. 

CON argues that no argument or evidence provided PRO so far comes near to approaching the requisite standard.

I.  PRO asks:

Why are so any mainstream outlets saying there could be aliens in Antarctica[?]  What is going on[?]
CON denies PRO's premise as false.  Neither of the sources PRO submits as evidence say that there could be aliens in Anatartica.

A.  New York Post

  • PRO failed to read the NY Post article submitted.  The article only states that new micro-organisms discovered in harsh environments expand biologists' assumptions about the extremes in which life is yet possible.  No alien life of any kind is asserted.
B.  Daily Express

  • PRO failed to read the Daily Express article submitted.  The article debunks a 2015 claim that Google Earth images captured a newly discovered spaceship crash site in Antarctica guarded by tanks.  The Express reports that the Google Earth image is a 2011 picture near Williams Field, the air strip for McMurdo Research Station, covered in winter snow.  The "tanks" are Caterpillar tractors used for grooming the runway.
C.  PRO has failed to offer any reliable evidence of mainstream news outlets reporting on Antarctic aliens.

II.  PRO answers:

"the book of Enoch...says god chained a bunch of demons in a frozen desert. and they would be released in the last day."
A.  The BOOK of ENOCH is "an ancient Hebrew apocalyptic religious text, ascribed by tradition to Enoch, the great-grandfather of Noah.  Enoch contains unique material on the origins of demons and giants, why some angels fell from heaven, an explanation of why the Great Flood was morally necessary, and prophetic exposition of the thousand-year reign of the Messiah." [8]

  • CON's best interpretation is that PRO refers to two parts of Chapter X:
"4. And again the Lord said to Raphael: 'Bind Azâzêl hand and foot, and cast him into the darkness: and make an opening in the desert, which is in Dûdâêl, and cast him therein. 5. And place upon him rough and jagged rocks, and cover him with darkness, and let him abide there for ever, and cover his face that he may not see light."
and

"11. And the Lord said unto Michael: 'Go, bind Semjâzâ and his associates who have united themselves with women so as to have defiled themselves with them in all their uncleanness." [9]
  • Nothing about these passages specify Antartica, or frozen deserts.  If PRO is referring to some other passage in Enoch where demons are imprisoned, CON requires specific citation. 
  • Dûdâêl is given as the specific location.  Dûdâêl is "implied to be the prison of all the fallen angels, especially the evil Watchers, the entrance of which is located to the east of Jerusalem.  The way this place is described, Dudael is sometimes considered as a region of the underworld, comparable to Tartarus or Gehenna. [10]
    • By any reckoning, Antarctica is not east of Jerusalem.
  • PRO's YouTube video source calls the idea of Antarctica as Enoch's demonic prison, "conjecture, something to think about."
OBJECTIONPRO submitted 4 sources in the description of this debate.  PRO failed to accurately characterize the content of all 4 sources, none of which had a particular reputation for reliable reporting before PRO's unwarranted misrepresentations.  It seems very likely that PRO did not review sources for content before submission.

III. JOHN KERRY

A. PRO asserts:

"Many celebrity's spent the 2016 elections the day president trump won in Antarctica."
  • CON finds no evidence that any particularly famous person except for John Kerry visited Antarctica in Novemeber 2016.  PRO has shown no evidence of "many celebrities."

B. PRO asserts:

"I believe the demon [Kerry] just casted an illusion of a lizard to trick the person into thinking he was an alien. So he would say Hillary Clinton is a lizard person and discredit himself. So no one catches on that most of our politicians are possessed by demons."
  • Belief is not proof.  PRO has failed to find any evidence.

C.  PRO asserts:

"If they are aliens. They would be able to leave. But these being can not leave Antarctica. They are trapped in Antarctica. Because these entity are trapped. If they were aliens they would not be trapped. These demons have been sealed there by god."
  • PRO disproves PRO's theory that John Kerry is a demon. Since PRO insists that demons are sealed under Antarctica until the end of the world. 
    • John Kerry could not have served as a Captain in the Vietnam war, earning many distinguished honors including 3 Purple Hearts while sealed beneath Antarctica.
    • Likewise, John Kerry could not have served as US Senator, presidential candidate, and Secretary of State while sealed beneath Antarctica.
D. Therefore, John Kerry is not a demon by PRO's own evidence.

IV.  Adolph Hitler

A. PRO asserts:

"Hitler went to Antarctica looking for ancient relics with magic powers."
  • Hitler never went to Antarctica.  The first German expedition to Antarctica was in 1938-39, after Germany's invasion of Czechoslovakia.  Hitler's whereabouts are well documented from 1938 until his death in 1945.
B.  PRO asserts:

"Hitler Got his idea's about ruling Germany is because he went to a hypnotist...demons give hypnotist powers."
  • "There are no documents to prove that Forster and Hitler, who were still completely unknown at the time, really met each other in Pasewalk.  In 1933 - after the National Socialist government - Forster was accused of favoring Jewish doctors. On August 31, 1933 he was suspended for alleged statements against National Socialism from the service and committed suicide a few days later." [11]
  • So, whether or not the Edmund Forster (the hypnotist)'s story was true, his politics were entirely out of line with Hitler's.
  • PRO offers no evidence that hypnotism can instill autocratic sentiments into people.
  • PRO offers no evidence that demons have magic powers or that one of those powers is to give humans the power of hypnotism.
  • If demons were sealed in Antarctica before the rise of mankind, as PRO asserts, they would not be able to visit German hypnotists in the 20th century.
  • PRO disproves PRO's theory that Adolph Hitler is a demon. Since PRO insists that demons are sealed under Antarctica until the end of the world. 
    • Adolph Hitler could not have served as a Corporal in WWI, earning several distinguished honors including the Iron Cross while sealed beneath Antarctica.
    • Likewise, Adolph Hitler could not have  served as German Chancellor, Furher, and perpetrator of the Holocaust while sealed beneath Antarctica.
C.   Therefore, Adolph Hitler is not a demon by PRO's own evidence.

CON looks forward to PRO's R2 reply

Round 2
Published:
Thank you con.



purpose of debate.
You had an alien profile pic and your profile page said you lived in Antarctica.I assumed you were in on the alien bandwagon that the mainstream media has been pushing. So i challenged you to a debate on it. I should have been more clear.you were suppose to be on the alien side and i was to say they are demons.That is why my article i sourced were anti alien.but pro demons If you want to disprove both. that is fine. I only want to do the there  demons not aliens.Sorry if you do not want to do it. I will happily forfeit if you want me to. only if you do not want to continue. Since i assume you are very concerned over your leader-board.This is only if you do not want to continue.I should have been more clear




CON denies PRO's premise as false.  Neither of the sources PRO submits as evidence say that there could be aliens in Anatartica.
I should have made your role more. You on alien side i am on demon side.If you want to dismiss both and hoaxes and i argue that these are demon encounter then we will go ahead with the debate.



  • CON's best interpretation is that PRO refers to two parts of Chapter X:
i am sorry i was going off memory.Which has been getting unreliable for me.Anyway According to the book of Enoch which is not cannon in scripture god.enoch describes a certain place.THis place seems to exist as he describes a region in Antarctica accurately.He mention one of the mountains in antartica.plus talks about how day and night were burning.meaning it was day 24/7.Which the only places in the world that have 24 hour daylight are frozen deserts.

Antarctica during the Southern Hemisphere summer season when there is 24 hour sunlight.
  • Dûdâêl is given as the specific location.  Dûdâêl is "implied to be the prison of all the fallen angels, especially the evil Watchers, the entrance of which is located to the east of Jerusalem.  The way this place is described, Dudael is sometimes considered as a region of the underworld, comparable to Tartarus or Gehenna. [10]
    • By any reckoning, Antarctica is not east of Jerusalem
    This is wrong.The book of Enoch takes place with Noah great great great great great great great  grandfather enoch.Which is the son of Cain. which is the son of adam and eve. SO humanity is not that old.Enoch is only the third generation.Adam and eve were probably  alive when Enoch was probably born.This is a very very long time before the founding of Jerusalem and gods promise with Abraham .This is years before Jerusalem was a thing.This is the first generation



    Hypnotist


    Given that the hypnotist committed suicide.It is probably true.

    Given that all the documentation was covered up and destroyed it is likely to be true.if it was false why would the evidence be destroyed.

    Whatever was done to Hitler under Dr. Forster's care will never be 100% certain due to the fact that in 1933 the Gestapo seized all psychiatric records related to Hitler's treatment and destroyed them. Forster 'committed suicide' the same year - the official cause was listed as suicide anyway.


    I extend my point about the demon stuff about how it is likely to be demons over aliens.That con dismissed because they were anti alien.



    old points


    .After John Kerry went to Antarctica on election day. He goes to new Zealand and there was an earthquake. Perhaps Gods judgement at work. A religious leader went to Antarctica
    note john Kerry probably believes he met with aliens. Along with there other strange visitor.



    It is believe the ark of Gabriel was taken from Antarctica. Killing 2000 people. The Russian main stream media presented this ark of Gabriel information as fact.The mainstream media in Russia said it was a fact that Russia had a special mission and they took something called the ark of Gabriel.


    I will add more in the last round if con want to continue.He thought he signed up for something different. I want to continue.


    yes the mainstream media is pushing aliens.There are a bunch of tv show on aliens on the history channle.Ancient aliens project blue book. history channel. Trump talked about aliens And the are quote on quote researching ufo.


    Earlier this week, the New York Times'Amy Chozickreported on Democratic presidential frontrunner Hillary Clinton's belief that alien life may be out there
    it is being pushed as an agenda

    Published:
    Thanks, crossed, for clarifying the purpose of this debate.  Be advised that my profile pic seldom presages my editorial position in future debates.

    So long as CON (crossed) is still advocating the position that John Kerry and Adolph Hitler are demons disguised as lizard men trapped in Antarctica until the end of the world and PRO (oromagi) is not required to defend the position that John Kerry and Adolph Hitler are actually extraterrestrials I think we can proceed with sufficient grounds for contest.

    At the top of R1, PRO noted that CON's argument was imparsable to a degree sufficient to defy cohesive summation or coherent rebuttal (or indeed recalling who was PRO and who CON).  PRO has revised thesis in R2 in an effort to update CON's clarified intent:


    RESOLUTION:  JOHN KERRY and ADOLPH HITLER ARE DEMONS TRAPPED in ANTARTICA,  DISGUISED as LIZARD MEN.

    I.  NO ALIENS

    A.  Since neither side now advocates for Antarctica Aliens, CON's NY Post and Daily Express articles and arguments regarding aliens in Antarctica should be set aside. [ That is, R1- PRO:I.A,B, & C]

    II.  CON clarifies Apocryphal evidence

    A.  CON updates the Book of Enoch claims, now specifying Chapter XVIII: lines 5-8.

    5. I saw the winds on the earth carrying the clouds: I saw the paths of the angels.

    6.  I saw at the end of the earth the firmament of the heaven above.   And I proceeded and saw a place which burns day and night, where there are seven mountains of magnificent stones, three towards the east, and three towards the south.

    7. And as for those towards the east, one was of coloured stone, and one of pearl, and one of jacinth, and those towards the south of red stone.

    8. But the middle one reached to heaven like the throne of God, of alabaster, and the summit of the throne was of sapphire. [1]
    • We should note that the Book of the Watchers (including Chapter 18) is estimated to have been written about 300-200 BCE. [2]
    • However, we have no evidence that humans ever visited Antarctica before the 19th century. [3]
    B.  CON argues that "a place that burns day and night " must indicate the unsetting sun of antarctic summer.
    • Why wouldn't Enoch simply describe an icy land where the sun does not set?  Does "burning day and night" really seem like an apt metaphor for the midnight sun effect?
    • A likelier interpretation seems to a description of the underworld through which Enoch must pass to visit Sheol.  In many mythologies, a burning underworld indicates old-world references of to magma.
    C.  The same passages indicate mountains of precious gems, which modern geology refutes. 
    • For example, we now know that pearls are formed by biological processes, not geological.  No entirely pearl geological formation could possibly form under any circumstances.
    • If there really was any good evidence that an entire throne of sapphire topped one of the mountains of Antarctica, many expeditions and resources would be dispatched to claim the object.  PRO is not aware of any such efforts.
    II.  JOHN KERRY

    A.  Let's recall that in R1, PRO argued that John Kerry could not have had maintained his long career of public service while also being trapped in Antarctica until the end of time.

    • CON's own evidence showing that Kerry visited Antarctica in 2016 proves that Kerry is not trapped there and indeed, doesn't even live there.
    • CON argues that Kerry "probably" believes he met with aliens.
      • PRO and CON have agreed there are no aliens in Antarctica
      • CON's link offers no evidence supporting CON's claim.
      • PRO finds no evidence that Kerry has ever met with aliens.
    CON's claim remains disproved by simple common sense and CON's own evidence.  If Kerry was trapped in Antarctica, he could not have fought in Vietnam or run for president, etc.

    III.  Adolph Hitler

    A.  Let's recall that in R1, PRO argued that Adolph Hitler could not have had maintained his very public career as German dictator and perpetrator of World War II while simultaneously being trapped in Antarctica.

    • CON's argument is that
    P1: Demons give hypnotists powers
    P2: Hitler once visited a hypnotist
    C1: Therefore, Hitler is a demon

    • CON offers no evidence that demons give hypnotist powers. In truth, hypnotism is a 19th century concept and CON's testimony is that demons have been trapped in Antarctica since the beginning of humankind, preventing demons from inventing, promulgating the notion of hypnotism to 19th century psychologists.
    • CON argues that because Hitler and  his hypnotist died by suicide and no  evidence or documentation of their interaction remains, Hitler is probably a demon.
      • PRO call that a significant non-sequitur.  Lack of evidence is not necessarily proof of demons.
    IV.  Hillary Clinton

    A.  CON notes that Hillary Clinton believes that extraterrestrial life is possible.

    • Since aliens are not contended by PRO or CON, this information should be disregarded as irrelevant.
    V.  The History Channel

    A.  CON notes that the History Channel does some shows about aliens.
      • Since aliens are not contended by PRO or CON, this information should be disregarded as irrelevant.
      PRO still fails to discern any  compelling evidence that John Kerry and Adolph Hitler are demons trapped in Antarctica.

      CON looks forward to PRO's R3 reply.


      Round 3
      Published:
      Book of enoch

      • We should note that the Book of the Watchers (including Chapter 18) is estimated to have been written about 300-200 BCE. [2]
      • However, we have no evidence that humans ever visited Antarctica before the 19th century. [3]
      The book is non cannon.it is suppose to take place before the flood so there would be no evidence.

      They have discovered pyramids in Antarctica.So people must have been there before 19 century



      ON argues that "a place that burns day and night " must indicate the unsetting sun of antarctic summer.
      • Why wouldn't Enoch simply describe an icy land where the sun does not set?  Does "burning day and night" really seem like an apt metaphor for the midnight sun effect?
      • A likelier interpretation seems to a description of the underworld through which Enoch must pass to visit Sheol.  In many mythologies, a burning underworld indicates old-world references of to magma
      no in the book he is teleported all over the place.I believe some parts of the book is true.This book has nothing to do with Sheol.I listened to it on audio book



      Astronomers confirm the accuracy of some of the space knowledge in the book of Enoch
      ave discovered something very interesting in the Book of Enoch. In the 18th chapter, he is describing a journey with the angels, where they are flying in an angelic "spaceship" southwards on the earth, and coming to a place where there are pillars of heavenly fire.
      To me, this sounds like they were flying over Africa (from the Middle East), and coming to the South Pole, and watching the Southern Lights.
      Enoch describes how he is passing several mountains, which quite well fits in with the mountains in east and south Africa 1. He passes over where the "waters collect", which obviously is where the oceans gather south of Africa 2. Then when they come to the place further south, he sees a deep rift, or abyss 3, which would suggest that Antarctica at that time was free from ice. And we know that there are ancient maps that seem to depict Antarctica as an ice-free landmass 4.
      Now, over this abyss, where the heavenly fire goes up and down like immense pillars, there are seven stars 5. This is of course not stars here on earth, but stars hovering over the South Pole horizon. A well known formation of seven stars is the Pleiades. Were the stars Enoch saw the Pleiades? Several things seems to confirm this. Firstly, the angels tells him that certain fallen angels were to be bound to those stars, because of their mingling with women on earth


      There is proof that the book of enoch was written 700 years before the flood.When Enoch lived.Pleiades can not be seen in the southpole.Where Enoch said he saw it.But when they checked the alignment of the stars when he lived 3000BC it turns out you could see Pleiades in the southpole

      When he checked the position of the stars today you could not see Pleiades where enoch claimed to see it in southpole.

      When they checked the position of the stars in the time of Jesus you could not see pleiades stars where enoch claimed to see it in southpole

      When they checked the position of of the stars flood era. to see if you could see Pleiades when the flood was suppose to happen.You could not see them.

      But when they checked the position of the stars 3000 bc.When enoch was suppose to live in the book 700 years before flood.You could see Pleiades where enoch claimed to have seen him at the same time he lived.This prove the book was written 3000 bc and it was possible for enoch to see pleiades in the south pole.It is only possible 3000 bc. which is when it is speculated he lived.Plus this prove that it is possible for him to see pleiades




      So, with my last hope, and with a great feeling of exitement, I put the date to 3000 BC, and started to rotate the scene. And there they were! The Pleiades could be seen at that time, just above the horizon, at the South Pole! Wow! and Hallelujah!

      note only in 3000 Bc could you see Pleiades in the south pole.Which is 700 years before the flood.Which puts the book at the time of Enoch.So it is possible for Enoch to see Pleiades in the south pole.But only in 3000 BC.If he had looked today it would be impossible to see Pleiades in the south pole.In the day of Jesus it would be impossible to see peliadias at the south-pole.

      Or was this journey real, and written down by someone who really lived five thousand years ago? And who obviously must have known, or seen, Africa and the Southern Ocean from above, and then the South Pole, with its pillars of light? How could anyone just guess all that, or put it together in a story, when all of it is perfectly accurate - geographically, astronomically, and an exactly the right timeframe?

      How could Enoch describe all the astronomy accurately if it did not happen.




      this is a stunning evidence that the Book of Enoch really is written before the Great Flood, and that he really did travel with the angels of God in some sort of a flying vehicle, around the world.

      The same passages indicate mountains of precious gems, which modern geology refutes. 
      • For example, we now know that pearls are formed by biological processes, not geological.  No entirely pearl geological formation could possibly form under any circumstances.
      • If there really was any good evidence that an entire throne of sapphire topped one of the mountains of Antarctica, many expeditions and resources would be dispatched to claim the object.  PRO is not aware of any such efforts.
      This is suppose to take at the beginning of time.Biological process change.I am pretty you are talking about somewhere else he had traveled. The guy was taken all over the place.He was taken to space and shown the stars.He was taken to heaven.It has been a while since audio book.I am pretty sure he was visiting heaven at that point do not quote me


      John kerry

      I am arguing that john Kerry was having demonic encounter.


    • CON argues that Kerry "probably" believes he met with aliens.
    • no i am saying he met with demons.


      Recap of story. on election day. John Kerry goes to Antarctica.It is believe he met with demons but unlikely.most likely demons for many ancient text say demons were imprisoned there.When he leaves Antarctica where his plane lands returning home an earthquake happens most likely judgment from god.The earthquake makes this encounter an demon encounter not an alien encounter.It was gods judgment


      Hypnotist


      During ww2 Hitler visits Antarctica.This is strange since it is believed demons were trapped there.He is said to have visited a hypnotist.This would prove that Hitler had a demonic encounter.But the documents on Hitler being hypnotized was covered up.Plus the hypnotist committed suicide saying he created the most evil man in history.The hypnotist ties Hitler to being demon possessed and or under a spell.Which puts the Antarctica visits to being demon encounters not aliens

      if the hypnotist story was not true why did they destroy all of the documents.The hypnotist story turns this into an demon encounter instead of an alien one.



      There was evidence.It was destroyed.This is false. If not true why hide it.

      call that a significant non-sequitur.  Lack of evidence is not necessarily proof of demons.
      there are still the statements from the hypnotist.Why would the goverment destroy the documents if what he said was not true.



      Hillary clinton


      Hillary Clinton believes demons are aliens.They are probably demons.Hillary Clinton lackey was invited to Satanic ritual.Spirit cooking


      This ties Hillary to demonic activity

      new WikiLeaks release of stolen emails belonging to Hillary Clinton’s campaign chairman John Podesta reveal an invitation by his brother to a “Spirit Cooking dinner” at the home of artist Marina Abramovic
      Hillary Clinton used to attend a "witch's church" in Los Angeles during Bill's presidency.

      proof of demon activity instead of aliens


      more proof.FBI gave hillary clinton trouble over satanic pedophile stuff


      this points to demonic activity not alien activity.

      Jeffery Epstein plane fly's to Antarctica while he is in prison

      This just makes it stranger.A plane with Jeffery Epstein tail number ended up in Antarctica while he was in prison.The odds of a plane having the same number is like lottery odds so it probably no accident.But the plane seemed to have teleported as the plane on sonar was in the middle of Antarctica then teleported to middle of America.

      It is speculated that

      JIM STONE speculates whether Epstein's plane that was identified by flight tracker was modified to make the trip to Antarctica

      What is going on.This case does not seem to fit demons specifically.But what is going on


      Conclusion.


      Book of enoch has evidence THat it dates back to 3000bc.700 years before great flood.Because pleadiias as only viewable during that time in the south pole.This is proof that he saw these stars in the southpole.Note it is impossible to see these stars in the south pole today or in the time of Jesus and only possible preflood era.Which proves this book was written by noah 7 times great grandfather.Hitler was hypnotized by demons.He went to Antarctica.John Kerry went to Antarctica on election day.But when he got back an earthquake shook the town he was in.I believe this is a warning from god.Which means he was probably talking to demons.THen epsteins plane tail number detected on sonar in Antarctica while he was suppose to be in prison.WTF. There is enough evidence to conclude.There is demon stuff going on in antartica


      Published:
      Thanks, crossed, for the provocation.

      RESOLUTION:  JOHN KERRY and ADOLPH HITLER ARE DEMONS TRAPPED in ANTARCTICA,  DISGUISED as LIZARD MEN.

      I.  NO ALIENS

      A.  Since neither side now advocates for Antarctica Aliens, CON's NY Post and Daily Express articles and arguments regarding aliens in Antarctica should be set aside. [ That is, R1- PRO:I.A,B, & C]

      II.  CON clarifies Apocryphal evidence

      A.  CON agrees with PRO that no evidence exists for Antarctic visitation before the 19th century.

      "The book [of Enoch] is non cannon.it is suppose to take place before the flood so there would be no evidence."
      B.  CON argues that Enoch, a literary stone age figure, teleported  to Antarctica.


      in fiction : instantaneous travel between two locations without crossing the intervening space.  [1]

      • CON argues that astronomers have confirmed that Enoch had sufficient "space knowledge" to identify the location as Antarctica.
        • CON's source contradicts CON's teleportation claim and instead claims that Enoch flew to Antarctica (by means undescribed).
        • CON characterizes the "bibeltemplet.net" website as "astronomers" but no scientific credentials (or even specifics of authorship)  are offered by the site.
      C.  CON conjectures (without evidence) that biological processes were quite different 5000 years ago but does not explain how oysters created a mountain of pearl at the South Pole.

      D.  Let's note that CON leans heavily on the Book of Enoch but never cites the specific passages that are supposed to support CON's claim.  TWICE, PRO has offered relevant passages from that source and used those passages to show that Antarctica is not indicated.  CON's response has been to claim that his evidence must be some other part of Enoch, without ever bothering to to do the legwork of telling us which passages support his claim.

      • PRO asks VOTERS to disregard the entire Book of Enoch discussion, since no specific passage or quote supporting CON's claim was ever offered.
      II.  JOHN KERRY

      A.  CON now clarifies that John Kerry is not actually a demon himself but met with demons.

      • This refutes CON's original thesis:
      "Many conspiracy theorist believe that our politicians are lizard People. The real answer is not aliens but demons."
      • CON argues that an (undocumented) earthquake upon Kerry's return home (location unspecified) serves as proof that Kerry met with demons in Antarctica.
        • P1: Kerry visited Antarctica.
        • P2: An earthquake took place on Kerry's return.
        • C1: Therefore Kerry met with demons.
      • Even if CON provided details regarding the earthquake (he does not), it does not follow that earthquakes are solid evidence of demonic visitation.
        • Earthquakes are commonplace.  Many, many people have experienced earthquakes.  PRO asserts as obvious that a very, very small percentage of people who have experienced earthquakes also report meetings with demons. (PRO admits that no statistics exist on this point).
        • Billions of people have experienced earthquakes but fewer than 1 million people have ever visited Antartica (where the claimed demons are supposedly trapped until the end of time).  Even if everybody who ever visited Antarctica secretly met with demons, there would still be less than an 1:1000 correlation between earthquakes and demon meetings (assuming, of course, that demons were real).
      • PRO asks VOTERS to note that CON disregarded multiple attempts to clarify this point in R1 and R2 and has only stated the argument with any clarity in the final round of the debate supported by a single, flimsy non-sequitur. 
        • PRO asks VOTERS to disregard CON's argument as mere unsubstantiated speculation.
      III.  Adolph Hitler

      A.  In R3, it is now unclear whether CON is arguing that Hitler is a demon or (like the Kerry claim) only visited demons in Antarctica.

      • VOTERS should note that PRO offered no evidence that Hitler visited Antarctica.  In fact, there was a popular conspiracy theory in the 1950's speculating that Hitler was hiding out in Antarctica but this was debunked by Russian documentation regarding the discovery and disposal of Hitler's corpse, details which were made public after Perestroika.  [2]
      • CON's reasserts that:
      P1: Demons give hypnotists powers
      P2: Hitler once visited a hypnotist
      C1: Therefore, Hitler is a demon

      • Since PRO did not address CON's R2 rebuttals of this argument, CON extends R2: a lack of evidence is not proof of demons.
      IV.  Hillary Clinton

      A.  In R3, it now unclear whether CON is arguing that Hillary is a demon (or like Hitler and Kerry) only visited demons in Antarctica.

      • CON does not suggest that Hillary Clinton has been to Antarctica, which was the primary evidence for demonic connection in the first two cases.
        • PRO finds no biographical evidence that Hillary Clinton has ever visited Antartica.
        • Instead, PRO submits this email as evidence of Clinton's demonism or demonic attachment:
      From: Marina Abramovic <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>

      Date: June 28, 2015 at 2:35:08 AM GMT+2To: Tony Podesta <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>

      Subject: Dinner

      Dear Tony,

      I am so looking forward to the Spirit Cooking dinner at my place. Do you think you will be able to let me know if your brother is joining?

      All my love, Marina [3]
      • Marina Abramovic is an award winning performance artist.  She occasionally invites a group of friends and patrons to her apartment where they make a meal together in a sort of New Age pretentious touchy-feely kind of way.  Essentially, these are parties where artists hit up rich people for money and rich people get to meet interesting people.
      • Tony Podesta is a long-time liberal lobbyist & DC insider.
      • John Podesta, the brother mentioned by Marina, is a long-time Democratic party fixture who served as Bill Clinton's Chief of Staff and Hillary Clinton's 2016 Campaign Chairman.
      • Neither brother attended the July 9 art party.
      • This email was hacked from John Podesta's personal (non-official) email gmail account and published on Wikileaks on Oct 7, 2016 as a counter-response to the release of the Access Hollywood tape where President Donald Trump boasts about raping women. [4]
        On December 9, 2016, the CIA told U.S. legislators the U.S. Intelligence Community concluded the Russian government was behind the hack and gave WikiLeaks hacked emails from John Podesta
        • So while the email does strongly suggest collusion between the current president and Russian spies, it does not follow that an art party that was not attended by the brother of Hillary Clinton's campaign chairman should serve as evidence of demons keeping company with Clinton.
        B. Bill Clinton belonged to a satanic cult.

        • DeMolay International is "an international fraternal organization for young men ages 12 to 21." [5]
          • Basically DeMolay is just a youth group attached to some local Masonic body.
          • PRO seems to be taking for granted that Masons are Satanic, which implicates huge portions of the American leadership.  If Bill Clinton is satanic for joining a junior Masons organization, then Ben Franklin, George Washington, Paul Revere indeed many famous US Presidents and patriots are all satanists for membership in the senior version of the same organization.  PRO may well suggest that Benjamin Franklin worshiped Satan but CON argues for some actual evidence in the name of historical accuracy and patriotic pride.
        C. CON claims that Hillary Clinton as First Lady attended an LA "Witches Church" on a monthly basis.

        • I guess the Press Corp just waited in Air Force One at LAX every month, never wondering where the First Lady was?
        • OBJECTION: PRO's source only source for this claim may not be used as credible evidence in any circumstance.
        Overall, InfoWars/Alex Jones is a crackpot, tin foil hat level conspiracy website that also strongly promotes pseudoscience. The amount of fake news and debunked conspiracy claims, as well as extreme right wing bias, renders InfoWars a non-credible source on any level. [6]
        "Judging Jones by his Infowars performances would be like judging Jack Nicholson by his depiction of the Joker on “Batman" [7]
        VOTERS should consider whether presenting this site as credible ought not cost CON points for SOURCES.

        D. CON has offered zero evidence that either Clinton is either demonic or associated with demons.  This argument may be safely ignored.

        V.  The History Channel

        A.  Extend R2.

        VI.  Jeffrey Epstein's plane teleported from Antarctica to America

        A.  The website's claim seems to depend on two snapshots on some kind flight tracker software.  The snapshots are not included but only link back to a single suspended Twitter account.  Note that the claim is not that Epstein's plane flew over Antarctica but that software reported an object with the same tail number as a helicopter once flown by Epstein's pilot in 2002. How any of this links to thesis is not explained.  VOTERS should ignore this argument as non-sequitur.

        VII.  CONCLUSION

        PRO hopes VOTERS will find that CON never offered a coherent resolution in good faith or presented a single credible argument that demons might be trapped in Antarctica in some unspecified connection to some well know people.  CON failed to address the burden of proof and merely presented  a hodge-podge of incredible BS.  

        Thanks to VOTERS for their kind consideration.

        Please vote PRO.

        Added:
        Right. Don't you know that the U.S. government discovered an Ancient chair that fires space torpedoes out of Antarctica?
        shout out to anyone who gets the reference.
        #5
        Added:
        I tried to nail it down a couple of times but never really did. I started out working against CON's claim: ""Many conspiracy theorist believe that our politicians are lizard People. The real answer is not aliens but demons." It is not until R3 that CON makes it clear that he claims that Kerry consorts with demons, but is not himself a demon. The title is about aliens but CON had no actual claims regarding aliens. Mostly it just feels like PRO wanted to keep tossing out new outrageous and unsupportable claims and only lightly engaged or countered any rebuttal.
        Contender
        #4
        Added:
        --> @oromagi, @crossed
        Before I try to read this, would one (or both) of you clarify the resolution? Like is pro arguing they exist and con that they don't, or is pro arguing morally in favor of said demons and con arguing morally against them...
        #3
        Added:
        this debate!
        #2
        Added:
        You both keep referring to con as pro and vice versa...
        #1
        #3
        Criterion Con Tie Pro Points
        Better arguments 3 points
        Better sources 2 points
        Better spelling and grammar 1 point
        Better conduct 1 point
        Reason:
        Weird one... Generally the title itself or the description should clarify if the debate is about said aliens don't exist, or if they are morally bad?
        NOTE: I have flipped pro and con in this RFD, realizing the needless reversal, I don't feel like editing my RFD to match)
        Getting into the debate... Pro, I highly suggest using the formatting suggested here, so that people can easily track when a new contention begins: tiny.cc/DebateArt
        Once you've concluded politicians are secretly demons as a fact for your case (without any proof), I want to skim ahead to the next point.
        Con, thank you so much for narrowing down what this debate might be about, and for using clear formatting so it could be easily followed (seeing the bold names of things, I can skip each in turn, already knowing basic history and such).
        The debate is half way over before a clear position for each is made, and con showed very good conduct by agreeing. So the debate is that Hitler, Kerry, etc., are more likely demons than aliens. Shared BoP.
        Oro soundly refutes Crosseds case, even using syllogism to show that earthquakes do not prove anyone is secretly a demon. It seems he did the tactic of outright disproving claims of demons, which leaves the not disproven case of aliens more likely (even if unsupported).
        #2
        Criterion Con Tie Pro Points
        Better arguments 3 points
        Better sources 2 points
        Better spelling and grammar 1 point
        Better conduct 1 point
        Reason:
        Pro consistently clashed with con while con's arguments were largely aimless.
        Examples:
        1. Pro clashed with con on the book of enoch.
        2. Pro proved that no person of any particular fame visited Antarctica apart from John Kerry. Con did not refute this.
        3. Con concedes that his memory is unreliable as it relates to the book of enoch rather than challenging pro's assertions.
        S&G: much of con's writing was lacking in proper syntax and general coherence. for example
        "I should have made your role more. You on alien side i am on demon side.If you want to dismiss both and hoaxes and i argue that these are demon encounter then we will go ahead with the debate."
        Sources: Con's sources added little substance to the debate while pro's sources added many facts to the debate.
        #1
        Criterion Con Tie Pro Points
        Better arguments 3 points
        Better sources 2 points
        Better spelling and grammar 1 point
        Better conduct 1 point
        Reason:
        This was an ... interesting ... debate.
        Let's review the rounds.
        ROUND ONE
        Con - Con provides a few scattered arguments, all of which can't be supported by actual fact. In addition, COn's sources did not add any factual value to the debate.
        Pro - Pro spends his entire text clashing with Pro, and provides no new information. That is acceptable since Con didn't define a BoF. Pro also reworded the resolution in favour for Pro.
        ROUND TWO
        Con - Con poorly clashes with Pro, and replaces valuable text space with links instead. Links are for reference and context only, and are not suitable to substitute for an entire argument. Con's links Con doesn't properly challenge Pro's refraining of the topic.
        Pro - Again, uses his entire text to clash with Con. Sufficiently does so.
        ROUND THREE
        Followed literally the exact same format as the last two rounds.
        OVERVIEW
        Arguments - Pro ; Pro used more factual and sensical arguments. Con used biased and wet concrete arguments
        Sources - Pro ; Both sides had sources, but Pro's sources were reliable, and added value tot he debate. Con's did not.
        S&G - Pro ; No explanation needed
        Conduct - Tie ; No explanation needed