Instigator / Pro
11
1711
rating
33
debates
84.85%
won
Topic
#1534

Massachusetts is a Greater State than California, as of now.

Status
Finished

The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.

Winner & statistics
Better arguments
3
6
Better sources
4
4
Better legibility
2
2
Better conduct
2
2

After 2 votes and with 3 points ahead, the winner is...

oromagi
Parameters
Publication date
Last updated date
Type
Standard
Number of rounds
3
Time for argument
One week
Max argument characters
3,500
Voting period
One week
Point system
Multiple criterions
Voting system
Open
Contender / Con
14
1922
rating
117
debates
97.44%
won
Description

BoP shared

My opponent must argue California is greater.

Greater definition that must be agreed on.

"of a more excellent or effective type or quality."

Criterion
Pro
Tie
Con
Points
Better arguments
3 point(s)
Better sources
2 point(s)
Better legibility
1 point(s)
Better conduct
1 point(s)
Reason:

Great job both of you. Ragnar beat me to this already and said like everything I was going to say, but I have a few things to add...

1. Oromagi was a little bit more organized in his delivery. Trent was listing facts, but Oromagi has sub points to those facts.

2. Oromagi argued with Trent in a general sense, but Trent argued with Oromagi directly, and I think a direct argument is better in this case.

3. None of you guys really said why those benefits matter. Sure, one state may have a better system than the other state, but why does that matter? Both of you kinda skimmed on why stuff matters, but most of the part were just listing facts with no context. I have no knowledge of this topic, and without the why part in the debate, I feel like the arguments were kind of plain, and unrealatable.

So in the end for me, I'm going to go with a tie.

Good job both of you though.

Criterion
Pro
Tie
Con
Points
Better arguments
3 point(s)
Better sources
2 point(s)
Better legibility
1 point(s)
Better conduct
1 point(s)
Reason:

First of all, both sides did really well.

I am not reading all the links but generally trusting peoples word unless there's a dispute. Innovation was a place where pro made the mistake of responding to challenge by repeating his link, without giving any analysis of why MA did more for innovation than the tech and film industries based out of CA. The source point leans toward con due to using con's own evidence to show better roadways (which relate more to the average experience which pro has argued), but I am not clicking through enough of them to consider myself justified were I to award the point.

To me this debate boils down to pro arguing the average experience of people living in a state vs con arguing for maximal contributions of each state. They of course clash, but they never come to any agreement on which standard is better. As a voter, I have to take a side, to which I am going to use an analogy... When Nux trips and Immortan Joe calls him "mediocre," it's not to say he's complete garbage, rather he would expect the average person to trip but Joe demands excellence, and when Nux fails he has to go murder Imperator Furiosa himself.

As can be guessed from my analogy, I am treating "of a more excellent or effective type or quality" to favor the maximal more than the mediocre. California giving so much more to the US economy (even if on average they have a lower disposable income), their tech sector, their national parts (which MA validly chooses not to do, but I consider their presence to imply quality), and more. A couple factors I really don't favor California on are pure size and population (which does affect the electoral votes, which is something I would consider in their favor... About like if we were comparing boxers and one had much longer arms). The racism angle fell flat to me, as a state containing some racist people isn't usually defined by the racism, and we're trying to analyze the comparative greatness; which isn't going to be ruined by a blemish (were one state being lead by the KKK it would be a lot more than a blemish, but Twitter posts which are likely skewed by a few jerks who post a lot, is just not enough).