Instigator / Pro

God colored animals intelligently

Debating

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Debate details
Publication date
Last update
Category
Religion
Time for argument
Two weeks
Voting system
Open voting
Voting period
Two weeks
Point system
Four points
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Rated
Characters per argument
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Contender / Con
Description
I have to prove god chose to color animals intelligently.
Here are some Painting in this google docs. To where there colors were chosen intelligently.To get the idea of what i have to prove god did with his animals.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/147_flFnmew32RKdsf65iDES77VY3NuAmyAPnBI_mEFs/edit
Cons job is to tell me why my animals colors were not picked the same way as these drawing's of dragons.
I will put my debate in a google docs. So i can use picture's feel free to do the same.
I procrastinate. Will be long debate
Round 1
Published:
Thanks for taking. I will list example's of painter's intelligently choosing the color's they use in there drawing's.Then make the claim God made the same intelligent choice as the painter's did when Coloring his animals.Your job is to tell me why my painter's drawings example's are not the same  as God's animals example's.In terms of intelligent choice's made

Example 1  
The painter of this dragon picture colored the dragon blue to match the blue background.It’s color was chosen intelligently.


Example 2 
The dragon's color was picked intelligently. The creator of this picture colored the dragon pink in order to match the pink background.The color was chosen intelligently.


Example 3
The tree’s are green and the mountains are brown. The creator of this drawing colored the dragon green and brown. So it would match the green and brown the mountains and trees have.It’s color was picked intelligently.


Burden of proof
It is con's job to tell me why my example's above are colored intelligently.But my God examples are not colored intelligently
God picked the color's of his animals intelligently.The same way the painter chose his dragon picture's color's

God Animal one
.God colored the snow lion white to match the white snow.The color was chosen intelligently

God animal two

God colored the lion yellow to match the yellow desert.The color was chosen intelligently


God animal Three

God colored the lizard green to match the green leafs.The color was chosen intelligently



Conclusion

The painter picked the color's for examples 1 2 and 3 intelligently.The same method the painter used to color the dragons intelligently.God used when designing his animals.


The painter drew the dragon blue because the background was blue.Thus the painter picked the color of the dragon intelligently.
God picked his animals color's the same way.God colored the snow lion white to match the white snow. Just like how the painter painted his dragon blue to match the blue background.Same intelligent choice was made.



Over to Ramshutu


Published:
Pro cites three examples of paintings, where a human has deliberately coloured an animal in an abstract representation. 

0.) Clarification of Burden

Pros argument is that the pigment generated by the development and biological process or living organisms was created and selected by a deity.

The basis for this incredible claim - is that painters paint paintings.

My burden here, paraphrasing pro: is to show that life and paintings are so dissimilar and disparate in nature and properties - that it is meaningless to assert that the cause of colour in one is applicable to the cause of colour in the other.

1.) Paintings are not subject to descent with modification.

Paintings are unable to replicate themselves inexactly, leading to copies of the painting that are similar but not identical. Further, each copy of the painting isn’t subject to selection pressure a whereby each paintings copy may be prevented from replicating as successfully as others.

If paintings had these properties, you would find paintings replicating with lighter or darker shades or into different patterns, and then over time a populations of paintings would get lighter, or darker or changing patterns dependent on the environmental pressure.

2.) life and a paintings are prima facia materially different.

A painting is a surface upon which pigment has been applied by some mechanism to provide an abstract visual representation of something.

Life forms are objects distinct from dead organisms and inanimate matter, due to biological functions such as metabolism, growth, reproduction, and response to stimuli or adaptation to the environment originating from within the organism.

Paintings are painted, life and organisms are brought forth through other life forms reproducing in some way through complex organic chemistry and interactions with genetic material.

In fact - life and paintings are so insurmountably different in almost every measurable way; there is literally no credible way any rational person would surmise the cause of a particular colour of one could be the cause of a particular colour in the other. 

The two things are as disparately independent and distinct as two things can possibly be. Indeed - the only two similarities the two things actually have - is that they both have a colour.

Does pros logic extend to everything that has a colour - if a painter intelligently selected the colour of a painting - does this also mean that as my poop has a colour, that God also intelligently chooses which shade of green or brown I am greeted with each morning?

While this sounds facetious - there is no perceptible reason why pros logic here applies to life but not any other randomly selected object that has a colour. 

3.) We have never observed a population of paintings changing colour over time through gradual changes and evolution - we have in life.

We have observed a change in colour of peppered moths[1], Polish Weasles[2], and English sparrows[3] due to environmental pressure.

We have changed the colours of crops, pigeons and dogs by selective breeding[4][5][6] : we did not produce the new colours - but simply selectively bread animals to accentuate random variations in colour. As it is proven animals can change colour over time if allowed to breed in a particular way, and it is proven that the natural environment can affect animals ability to breed in particular ways (see sources 1,2 and 3), this all indisputably prove that colours in animals do not require God.

4.) We know paintings require painters from unparalleled and ubiquitous experience of paintings and observations of painters.

Almost every human living today -  certainly in the developed world - has at some point, drawn or painted a picture, has seen multiple paintings of various qualities and thus has had multiple direct and indirect experience of an intelligence selecting colours.

Our knowledge that the colours in paintings are selected based on an intelligent choice - is based on our ubiquitous knowledge that this is how painters paint paintings.  The conclusion that a painting is design is not inherently based upon any specific or intrinsic properties of the painting itself.

Conclusion:

Pro is engaging in an unsupported and absurd non-sequitur based upon the premise that if various aspects of two things appear similar in nature - the cause is similar.

Pros logic is demonstrably absurd.

  • If you find a baseball near a baseball park - it is reasonable to presume it had been struck there. This extends only to baseballs, not any round object; stone or metal spheres near such a spark could not be reasonably assumed to have been struck there.
  • Humans fill buckets of water with a faucet. This does not mean that potholes - which are similar regions that contain water - are intelligently filled with water.

Sources:

[1] https://m.phys.org/news/2018-08-truth-darwin-moth.html

[2] https://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2018/05/24/white-animals-could-die-climate-change-study-suggests/

[3] https://sora.unm.edu/sites/default/files/journals/condor/v069n03/p0217-p0258.pdf

[4] https://www.tes.com/lessons/st1FeQlGOyYu0A/examples-of-evolution

[5] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fancy_pigeon#Colour_pigeons

[6] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_of_dog_breeds

Round 2
Published:
Thanks for responding i think there has been a misunderstanding.

Burden of proof

con said
The basis for this incredible claim - is that painters paint paintings.

This is false.

    
  • I have a yellow cup. So i get a yellow plate to go with it.
  • I have an orange chair to go with my orange table
  • i have a blue cup to go with my blue plate.
  • I have red pants. so i get a red shirt to go with it.
  • A race car driver wears a yellow uniform to go with his yellow car
  • I got a green table to go with my green chairs.
  • I got a red envelope to go with my red colored letter

In all these example i listed the colors were chosen intelligently.It did not matter what any of these objects were made of or how they were made.The point of the example was to show an intelligent choice was made.

For example.
  • I got green colored slippers to go with my green pagama's.
The color of these slipper was not an accident.He choose green colored slippers with a purpose.He chose them to match his green pajamas's
God used the same exact logic when he was coloring his animals

Weasels are white during the winter brown during the summer.


  • God created the weasel white to match the white snow.
  • I got a blue colored cup to match my blue colored plate.
Both of these example are exactly the same.

  • I got a blue cup to match my blue plate
  • God colored his weasel white to match the white snow.



Rebuttal

Con is confused.He keeps telling me how evolution works thinking he is disproving my points that he coloring was an intelligent choice.Telling me an animal like the peppered moth turned black during smog does not disprove that it was an ascetic choice.I came here knowing you guys believe animals turned into the colors of there environment.Though i am pretty sure it was just the smoke that turned the moths black.Not them adapting.But that is irrelevant.  weasel is brown during the summer but white during the winter and telling me what biologically changes inside the animal. does not prove god did not do it..The question we should be asking why does this animal like the weasel have the properties that turns it white during the winter.

The white coloring is an ascetic choice.

  • God colored his winter animals white to match the white snow
  • God colored his desert animals yellow to match the yellow desert
  • God created his Forrest creature green to match green tree's

God made the same exact intelligent/ascetic choice.As my example below


  • I colored my plate red to match my red cup
  • I colored my plate blue to match my blue cup
  • I colored my plate yellow to match my yellow cup

I got a green cup to match my green plate.He made the exact same intelligent choice as god made.God colored weasel white to match white snow





Block rebuttal

con said
4.) We know paintings require painters from unparalleled and ubiquitous experience of paintings and observations of painters.
But we do not need to see a painter paint.TO know he made an intelligent choice

Santa claws wears red suit to match his red sleigh.
Do we need to see Santa make his sleigh in order to know they made an intelligent choice.I will use fictional characture to avoid."The but we have seen them make it argument:

3.) We have never observed a population of paintings changing colour over time through gradual changes and evolution - we have in life.

We have observed a change in colour of peppered moths[1], Polish Weasles[2], and English sparrows[3] due to environmental pressure.

We have changed the colours of crops, pigeons and dogs by selective breeding[4][5][6] : we did not produce the new colours - but simply selectively bread animals to accentuate random variations in colour. As it is proven animals can change colour over time if allowed to breed in a particular way, and it is proven that the natural environment can affect animals ability to breed in particular ways (see sources 1,2 and 3), this all indisputably prove that colours in animals do not require God.


this all indisputably prove that colours in animals do not require God
here is the problem.No it does not just because we see something in nature doing something.It does not mean god did not do it..I am saying the fact that animals are the same colors of there environment.I am saying that was made off an intelligent choice. I have red socks to go with red shoes.But Lets say god designed the weasle to turn white every winter.I am saying he created them white to match the white snow.Just like how man created socks red to match red shoes.


) life and a paintings are prima facia materially different.
A painting is a surface upon which pigment has been applied by some mechanism to provide an abstract visual representation of something.
Life forms are objects distinct from dead organisms and inanimate matter, due to biological functions such as metabolism, growth, reproduction, and response to stimuli or adaptation to the environment originating from within the organism.

I know how it works.I want to know why it is that way.

We know how it works

due to biological functions such as metabolism, growth, reproduction, and response to stimuli or adaptation to the environment originating from within the organism.

Why is it this way.God must have made intelligent choices.


Telling me how something works does not prove god did not do it!!!

) We have never observed a population of paintings changing colour over time through gradual changes and evolution - we have in life.

The animals changing colors over time or not does not disprove god did it.We do not need to see painting change.



1.) Paintings are not subject to descent with modification.
Paintings are unable to replicate themselves inexactly, leading to copies of the painting that are similar but not identical. Further, each copy of the painting isn’t subject to selection pressure a whereby each paintings copy may be prevented from replicating as successfully as others.
If paintings had these properties, you would find paintings replicating with lighter or darker shades or into different patterns, and then over time a populations of paintings would get lighter, or darker or changing patterns dependent on the environmental pressure.
This is irrelevant.It does not matter how they are made.An intelligent choice was made.Telling me how it works does not change that



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Added:
nvm. will do
Instigator
#3
Added:
--> @Ramshutu
Would that not format it weirdly. I will see what i can do
Instigator
#2
Added:
--> @crossed
Please put the arguments in the text of the debate, and use the google document for your pictures
Contender
#1
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