Instigator / Pro

Illuminati exist

Debating

Waiting for instigator's argument

The round will be automatically forfeited in:
00:00:00:00
Debate details
Publication date
Last update
Category
Religion
Time for argument
One week
Voting system
Open voting
Voting period
One month
Point system
Four points
Rating mode
Rated
Characters per argument
10,000
Contender / Con
Description
No information
Round 1
Published:
Sorry for procrastinating
The Illuminati exist.It was founded in the 1700s. The mainstream media has made it sound like they never existed.  but this is just plain false.There symbol is on the dollar.

There is almost masonic lodge in every town in America.GO to google earth and you will probably see a masonic building in your town.



Every president except for the one has been related.Note we do not know if trump is related. This was discovered in the Obama era



Now for the meat and cheese

They put aborted babies in vaccines.Here is a fake news article by the ABC that is saying aborted babies are not a bad thing in vaccines but a good thing.I a not making this up

DO you know what a pharmaceuticals are. They are the biggest killer on the planet.100 thousand people die each years from pharmaceuticals

Did you know pharmacy was derived from the word pharmakeai and pharmaceuticals is based off the word pharmakon.
phármakon), denoting any drug, while the third sense refers to the pharmakos ritual of human sacrifice.


the word pharmakeai means

    the use or the administering of drugs
    poisoning
    sorcery, magical arts, often found in connection with idolatry and fostered by it
    metaph. the deceptions and seductions of idolatry


the word pharmakon means

from pharmakon (a drug)
Definition
a poisoner, sorcerer, magician
NASB Translation


pharmacy is derived off the word pharmakeai. This is because pharmacy's want to harm you.

etomology online dictionary says pharmacy came from pharmakeai.

911

This is by far the biggest evidence against George bush in my opinion.

With titles like while our nation was under attack our president was to busy reading children's books.

"The Pet Goat," known for the book the President was reading to the children upon being informed by Andy Card that a second plane had struck the World Trade Center




Our president bush was so kind he was helping the students sound out words minutes before 911. the words were. Kite hit steal plane must. he had them chant this ritual over and over before 911 happened. He used the excuse that he was helping them sound out words as an excuse. Very scary video


This is the most clear ritual i have ever seen. Our president had the kids chant kite hit steal plane must over and  over and over again in a weird satanic ritual minutes before the plane hit the world trade center


This is a must watch it is at 5:27. Very scary



Demolay

beside the fact that the demolay has demon in the name. Demolay is child youth group ages 9-21. After they graduate the youth group.they helps them get jobs like an airplane pilot a politician Hollywood actors ceos astronauts musicians etc and other jobs of high places. all the presidents have belonged to groups like this but this specific group raised bill Clinton Walt Disney and several notable celebrity

here some of there famous one

here are some of of them

This cult raises kids and when they grow up they help them find jobs.Meaning they put them in high places like being president or politician or actor.


Rothschild

The Rothschild family is estimated to have 500 trillion dollars and owns almost every bank in the world.They have funded every side of every war since the days of napolian 


The Rothschild family are known to have funded the losers and the winners of all wars since the Napoleonic Wars of 1803 to 1815. They fund both sides so that whichever side wins, they profit. In 1815, Napoleon Bonaparte was campaigning to take over Britain itself.
You should check the meme out on these guy's s



Symbolism.


Con said my Satan is Santa is rearranged was just an accident.But it is not it is something the occult does all the time. Do you know what an apple computer is. There logo is of an apple with a bite taken out of it.This is because the apple represent the forbid an fruit that Adam ate that led to the downfall of man.Computer will be the second downfall of man.The first apple computer was also sold for 666 dollars.People are so desentised from this stuff they do not even know what it means





Next round i will go into pizza gate fema camps chemtrails. haarp 5g doom and gloom.Etc over to con
Published:
I would like my opponent to clarify what he means by the Illuminati. In order to make my arguments make sense, I am using the definition “A secretive worldwide organization engaging in a conspiracy to either rule the world and/or direct its events.”
Is this definition acceptable, or would you like to propose a different definition?

Rebuttals

Sorry for procrastinating

Apology accepted, and I must offer my own apology for procrastinating.

The Illuminati exist.It was founded in the 1700s.

I agree that they existed in the 1700s.

The mainstream media has made it sound like they never existed.

I disagree. The Illuminati are merely an unimportant footnote in history, so there is little reason for the MSM to talk about them.

There symbol is on the dollar.

The eagle on the one-dollar bill does not represent the Illuminati.

“[Secretary of the Continental Congress] Thomson told Congress he chose a pyramid to symbolize strength and longevity, and the the eye and motto above to ‘allude to the many signal interpositions of providence in favour [sic] of the American cause.’ “
https://money.howstuffworks.com/symbols-dollar-bill.htm
Furthermore, if the Illuminati are attempting to remain secret, then they could have no possible motivation to put their symbol right where it could be seen.

There is almost masonic lodge in every town in America.

Unless you can prove a connection between the Illuminati and the Masons, this is totally irrelevant.

Every president except for the one has been related.

Once again, this is also irrelevant. What difference does it make if they’re all related through a man who died 800 years ago? This proves nothing.

They put aborted babies in vaccines.Here is a fake news article by the ABC that is saying aborted babies are not a bad thing in vaccines but a good thing.

You are grossly misrepresenting the facts. They don’t “put aborted babies in vaccines.” While the original cells were from aborted babies, the cells in the vaccines are not. “They [the cells from the aborted babies] were used to start a cell line, which is a cell multiplied over and over again to produce cells that are of a consistent genetic makeup.” “’These cell lines are now more than three generations removed from their origin, and we have not used any new tissue to produce these vaccines,’ the company added in its statement. To say that the vaccines contain a significant amount of human fetal tissue, as some objectors to the vaccines claim, is misleading, stressed Dr. Paul Offit, the director of the vaccine education center at the Children's Hospital of Philadelphia.
‘There are perhaps nanograms of DNA fragments still found in the vaccine, perhaps billionths of a gram,’ he said. ‘You would find as much if you analyzed the fruits and vegetables you eat.’”
What’s my source for this, you ask? The very same one you posted, and for which you have provided no evidence showing it's fake news.
https://abcnews.go.com/Health/aborted-fetuses-vaccines/story?id=29005539
While I lament the fact that aborted babies were used, this has nothing to do with the Illuminati. It might prove that some vaccine developers don’t think that unborn babies are people, but it does nothing to help your case.

pharmaceuticals...are the biggest killer on the planet.100 thousand people die each years from pharmaceuticals

They are not the biggest killer on the planet even if we accept your number, which I don’t, since you provide no evidence for it. The biggest cause of death in the world is coronary heart disease at 8.7 million per year.
https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/top-ten-leading-causes-of-death-in-the-world.html
Secondly, this is irrelevant to the Illuminati's existence. Also, why would they kill their own subjects?

pharmacy is derived off the word pharmakeai. This is because pharmacy's want to harm you.

This is an assertion, not proof. It is irrelevant to the existence of the Illuminati, and your own source proves it. It says that the word originated in the 14th century, hundreds of years before the short-lived Illuminati existed.
https://www.etymonline.com/word/pharmacy

Kite hit steal plane must. he had them chant this ritual over and over before 911 happened...This is the most clear ritual i have ever seen...a weird satanic ritual minutes before the plane hit the world trade center

Random coincidences prove nothing. There is no possible motivation for the Illuminati to tell Bush to do anything that might even hint at their existence. The mere fact that such a hint exists is evidence that there is no Illuminati trying to hide its existence, or else they would stop whoever it was from dropping the hint.

beside the fact that the demolay has demon in the name.

There is no ‘n’ in demolay, so it does not have demon in its name. Also, if such logic was valid, then I must be a knight because I have “Sir” in my username. The mere fact that such a hint exists is evidence that there is no Illuminati trying to hide its existence, or else they would stop whoever it was from dropping the hint.

Demolay is child youth group ages 9-21...This cult raises kids and when they grow up they help them find jobs.Meaning they put them in high places like being president or politician or actor.

This is completely irrelevant unless Pro can establish some relationship between demolay and the Illuminati. It's more reasonable to believe that the youth group is simply successful in training youth to be disciplined, hard-working members of society than it is to believe that they must be linked to the Illuminati because the youth become successful.

The Rothschild family is estimated to have 500 trillion dollars and owns almost every bank in the world.They have funded every side of every war since the days of napolian

Their net worth is $400 billion, which is not enough to own almost every bank or fund all sides of all wars.
https://www.celebritynetworth.com/richest-businessmen/rothschild-family-net-worth/
Secondly, in 2015, there was only $250 trillion dollars in the entire world.
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/rothschild-family-wealth/

Again, none of these allegations about the Rothschilds have anything to do with the Illuminati.

Con said my Satan is Santa is rearranged was just an accident.But it is not it is something the occult does all the time.

You have absolutely no evidence that the occult does this all the time. Also, what possible motivation would “the occult” have for giving themselves away by scattering random hints throughout the world?

the apple represent the forbid an fruit that Adam ate that led to the downfall of man.

Actually, the point of the bite was to make it obvious that it wasn’t another fruit like a cherry.
https://mentalfloss.com/article/64049/did-alan-turing-inspire-apple-logo

The first apple computer was also sold for 666 dollars.

Once again, this is refuted by the very same article that you link. The first computer wasn’t sold for any price because it was sold in 50 different pieces. Also, the total was $666.66, which has 5 sixes, not 3.
https://www.quora.com/Is-it-true-that-the-first-Apple-computer-sold-was-for-666-66
In any case, this is absurd. I can go to the store and engineer my purchases to cost $666. That would not make me satanic.

Opening Arguments

1. The Illuminati would require so many members that it would be impossible to keep it secret. It would require millions, or hundreds of millions, of members in order to function.The Illuminati would have to maintain an incredibly vast secret police force to keep everyone quiet. But even with this secret police, it would still be impossible to maintain the secret. There are many people in the world who cannot lie for moral reasons. Such people would expose the Illuminati even under the threat of death or with the offer of a bribe. Since the Illuminati would have to have millions of members, whistleblowers making claims and then getting killed should be a regular event. According to https://www.history.com/topics/1970s/watergate , seven highly motivated aides could not keep Watergate hidden. In light of this, it is utterly nonsensical to claim that millions of people could keep the Illuminati hidden.

2. It would be impossible for the Illuminati to survive financially. Accounting records of governments and large corporations are so available to the public that it would be impossible for the Illuminati to siphon money from them to pay its members and get away with it. It would have to pay millions of people inordinate amounts of bribe money to keep them quiet, and the accounting records.

3. There is no purpose for the Illuminati remaining hidden. If it is so powerful that it controls the world, then it doesn’t have any motive to stay hidden.

4. The theory of the Illuminati does not explain anything that can’t be better explained without the Illuminati. My opponent has not presented anything that can only be explained by the Illuminati. It is far more reasonable to believe that the world is as it appears than to postulate a worldwide conspiracy that doesn’t explain anything.

5. If the Illuminati existed, it would not allow the coincidences that Pro brings up to happen. It cannot simultaneously be so brilliant and well organized that it runs the world and yet also be so unbelievably incompetent as to put its symbol in plain sight.

6. If the Illuminati can keep itself secret, it must have a secret police to silence those who try to expose it. The only way to silence someone with certainty is to kill them. Therefore, I have a simple question for Pro. You are trying to expose the Illuminati. So if the Illuminati is real, then why are you still alive?

Conclusion

Pro has presented a random series of arguments ranging from made-up facts to minor coincidences to irrelevant organizations like the Masons. He has not even attempted to prove any connection between any of his arguments and the existence of the Illuminati. Consequently, everything he said in round 1 has no bearing on the argument.

In contrast, I have provided six different reasons to reject the theory of the Illuminati, and all of them ave a clear connection to the Illuminati’s existence.

I wish to thank Pro for this interesting debate. The floor is yours.








Round 2
Published:
I am not going to do a block rebuttal. Because i feel it is lazy. Anyway the Illuminati exist con agree with this.But he feels that they no longer exist.I mean why would they no longer exist.Why would a group like that just disband.Secondly con gave the reason the creator gave for making the apple computer with an apple with a bite taken out of it.The reason why he did that he says is because so it does not look like a cherry.Con needs to realize that this is a lie.In quora page i originally listed about how the first computer was sold for 666.66 dollars.He says that he did this because he Quote on quote liked repeating numbers.This is complete ######firstly the apple symbol looks nothing like a cherry.Why would they mistake it for a cherry.It is called an apple computer.Why would he be afraid that it would be called a cherry.THe name of his F##### company is called Apple.The Freemasons Illuminati  Demolay Rainbowgirls Skull and bones Golden lily  etc. There all branches of the same tree.Once you have completed one secret society let say the freemasons.You are sent to another secret society.Firstly con was concerned about how they can keep millions of people quite.Con seems to know what the Freemasons are so i will start there.Freemasons have millions of member across the world.Freemasons Recruit people into there secret society and these people waste there entire lives in it.These people are told to die for there secrets.So if this society can do it why can not the Illuminati.Plus like i said before once you complete a secret society like the Freemasons you get moved up into another one like skull and bones or something.


While this question is difficult to answer on a world-wide basis, the Masonic Service Association indicates that there were 1,404,059 living Freemasons in the United States in the year 2009.

Con goes into the aborted babies in vaccines.He admits that it was derived from an aborted baby.The article is a little outdated.I just like using it because it is so absurd..Anyway the information is outdated.One of these ###### under oath admitted that they use the entire baby in vaccines.They let nothing go to waste they use tongue arms heart legs eyes everything.


Con does not believe me that pharmakeia. Is the largest killers.But he list the top killers 9 out of 10  of them are medical deaths.9 out of ten of them are diseases.Like i said once you complete a society you move up into another one.So yes pharmakeai were created by these people.Plus con says i have no proof that they put symbols in everything.Even though i listed quite a few examples like pharmakeai.Let still he denies it. He still thinks the Santa being Satan rearranged is a coincidence.The world health symbol is of a snake and a staff.Hermes the snake god.Could they be telling us that there stuff is snake oil




Rothschild.I personally believe there is more money then we believe.They print money out like it is nothing.The American dollar is useless.Secondly it is not uncommon for a family to have trillions of dollars.one family in Afghanistan has trillions of dollars.
And lastly the Illuminati does not rule the world yet.They are trying to bring in the new world order.After nine eleven.The world trade center was put in its place to replace the twin towers.


Published:
Thanks for the reply.

Definitions

And lastly the Illuminati does not rule the world yet.They are trying to bring in the new world order.
I must ask that you define what you mean when you refer to the Illuminati. How much influence do they have? How many countries, if any, do they control? Please be specific. It will help both our cases to understand what you mean when you say "Illuminati."

Rebuttals

Why would a group like that just disband.
They disbanded because they never had more than 2000 members and were banned by the Bavarian government.
The reason why he did that he says is because so it does not look like a cherry.Con needs to realize that this is a lie
It is pointless to say that is a lie without providing any reason to believe it is a lie. I have provided a source that gives a logical explanation for the bite out of the apple. Where is your source proving that isn't a logical explanation?
In quora page i originally listed about how the first computer was sold for 666.66 dollars.He says that he did this because he Quote on quote liked repeating numbers.This is complete ######
Firstly, please spend a little more time editing your arguments so they are easier to read. Your use of the pronoun "he" is ambiguous and could refer to either myself or the person answer the Quora question.
Secondly, it proves nothing to say that some is false without providing any reason to believe it is false.
firstly the apple symbol looks nothing like a cherry.Why would they mistake it for a cherry.It is called an apple computer.Why would he be afraid that it would be called a cherry.
It would more like a cherry without the bite, and it would lead to jokes about a company named Apple that had a cherry for a logo. It's all about marketing and public perception.
The Freemasons Illuminati  Demolay Rainbowgirls Skull and bones Golden lily  etc. There all branches of the same tree.
Once you have completed one secret society let say the freemasons.You are sent to another secret society.
You have not provided any evidence to support either of these assertions. Please do so. Bare assertions prove nothing.
These people are told to die for there secrets.So if this society can do it why can not the Illuminati.
Because the Freemasons aren't hiding any crimes. The promise to die for their secrets (presuming this exists. I would prefer it if you provided a source for this claim.) is an empty formality since they aren't hiding anything criminal. The Illuminati, on the other hand, would be hiding assassinations, bribery, provocations and support for needless war, and all manner of other crimes. My example of Watergate demonstrating why it is impossible for the Illuminati to keep their secrets still stands unaddressed.
One of these ###### under oath admitted that they use the entire baby in vaccines.They let nothing go to waste they use tongue arms heart legs eyes everything.
I am unfamiliar with what body parts they use to acquire the stem cells, but it is irrelevant. This still stands unrefuted:
“They [the cells from the aborted babies] were used to start a cell line, which is a cell multiplied over and over again to produce cells that are of a consistent genetic makeup.” “’These cell lines are now more than three generations removed from their origin, and we have not used any new tissue to produce these vaccines,’ the company added in its statement. To say that the vaccines contain a significant amount of human fetal tissue, as some objectors to the vaccines claim, is misleading, stressed Dr. Paul Offit, the director of the vaccine education center at the Children's Hospital of Philadelphia.
‘There are perhaps nanograms of DNA fragments still found in the vaccine, perhaps billionths of a gram,’ he said. ‘You would find as much if you analyzed the fruits and vegetables you eat.’”
While I lament the fact that aborted babies were used, this has nothing to do with the Illuminati. It might prove that some vaccine developers don’t think that unborn babies are people, but it does nothing to help your case.
The use of aborted babies in vaccines has nothing to do with the Illuminati, unless you can prove otherwise, which you have not even attempted.
But he list the top killers 9 out of 10  of them are medical deaths.9 out of ten of them are diseases.
Yes, but people who die from diseases die from diseases, not pharmaceuticals. Your argument is akin to saying that bug spray kills people because people die from diseases spread by mosquitoes. People dying from the problem =/= people dying from the cure.
Like i said once you complete a society you move up into another one.So yes pharmakeai were created by these people.
This is a non sequitur. The second sentence has absolutely nothing to do with the first. It is also begging the question. You are attempting to use the idea that the Illuminati creates pharmaceuticals to prove that pharmaceuticals are evidence of the Illuminati.
Plus con says i have no proof that they put symbols in everything.Even though i listed quite a few examples like pharmakeai.Let still he denies it.
There are all kinds of problems with this statement.
1. Existence of symbols =/= The Illuminati put the symbols there.
2. As I proved in the previous round, the word pharmacy existed before the Illuminati, so it is impossible for that to be a symbol planted by the Illuminati.
3. The Illuminati would have no motivation to put symbols in everything. In fact, they would be motivated to hide their symbols in order to better hide their existence. Consequently, the existence of such symbols is evidence (weak evidence, but evidence nonetheless) against the Illuminati's existence, because they would have attempted to remove those symbols from the public view if they really existed.
I would like my opponent to answer this question: What possible motivation could the Illuminati have for putting their symbols in public view?
He still thinks the Santa being Satan rearranged is a coincidence.
Your username rearranged is "O, Dr. Secs." Clearly, you are a sex doctor. If you disagree, then why are you insisting that it's just a coincidence? The logic that Santa is like Satan because their names are spelled with the same letters is a complete non sequitur. The letters of God rearranged are dog. Does that mean God is a dog?
The world health symbol is of a snake and a staff.Hermes the snake god.Could they be telling us that there stuff is snake oil
No, they couldn't. If the Illuminati is real and is trying to stay secret, telling us information like that would be one of the last things they would want to do.
Rothschild.I personally believe there is more money then we believe.
Unless you have proof, this is irrelevant.
They print money out like it is nothing.The American dollar is useless.
This is irrelevant for at least three reasons. Firstly, inflation does not increase the amount of wealth in the world. It is the same as trying to increase distance by making a foot only 4 inches long. It doesn't increase the total. It just makes the unit smaller. Secondly, you need to prove that the Rothschilds actually have as much money as you claim. Thirdly, you would need to demonstrate that there is a connection between the Rothschilds and the Illuminati, which you have not done.
Secondly it is not uncommon for a family to have trillions of dollars.one family in Afghanistan has trillions of dollars.
Firstly, I think you have a typo. The family isn't Afghanistani. It's the Saudi royal family (which has 15,000 members, so it doesn't really count as a family). Secondly, it is not certain that they have trillions of dollars, and if they do, they are the only family to have that much. Estimates for their net worth range from $100 billion to $1 trillion.
After nine eleven.The world trade center was put in its place to replace the twin towers.
This has nothing to do with the Illuminati.

Arguments

My opponent has not provided any evidence to cast doubt on my opening arguments, so they still stand.

My opponent has a contradiction is his perception of the Illuminati. They cannot simultaneously be trying to hide and planting symbols giving themselves away. Either they are not secretive, or they are not planting symbols. You cannot have it both ways.

My opponent has yet to produce a single piece of evidence that has any connection to the Illuminati that would support the idea of their existence. Instead, he has presented a random series of irrelevant arguments and has not even attempted to demonstrate how they support the Illuminati theory.

I wish to present a challenge to my opponent. There must be some evidence with a clear link to the Illuminati that convinced him that they exist. What evidence convinced you?

As it stands, I have presented several reasons to believe they don't exist, and my opponent has failed to provide any reason to believe that they do exist.

Once again, I thank you for your response. The floor is yours.
Round 3
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Round 4
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Round 5
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Added:
--> @crossed
I found out when I tried to change the limit on my other debate. Too late now.
Contender
#11
Added:
--> @SirAnonymous
I am sorry to hear that.I do not have the power to change the character limit.
Instigator
#10
Added:
I really should avoid posting debate arguments after midnight. Now that I reread it, it have a few typos and editing errors. My initial argument was 3,300 characters over the limit, so I had to do some serious editing.
Contender
#9
Added:
--> @crossed
Can you increase the character limit? It takes a lot of space to do rebuttals.
Contender
#8
Added:
--> @PoliceSheep
I noticed, but thanks for reminding me.
Contender
#7
Added:
--> @crossed, @SirAnonymous
Quora and some of Pro's other sources are really unreliable.
#6
Added:
https://demolay.org/hall-of-fame/
Instigator
#5
Added:
--> @crossed
No problem. I'll probably post my rebuttal tomorrow or Thursday.
Contender
#4
Added:
--> @SirAnonymous
sorry for procrastinating
Instigator
#3
Added:
--> @crossed
Bump
Contender
#2
Added:
--> @crossed
Don't forget.
Contender
#1
No votes yet