Instigator / Pro

1337

rating

debates

9.62%

won

Topic

#1574

Utah is what happens when hipsters infest a red state

Status

Finished

The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.

Winner & statistics

Winner

After 1 vote and with 1 point ahead, the winner is...

RationalMadman

Tags

Society

Parameters

Publication date: 10.30.2019 12:19AM
Last updated date: 11.11.2019 09:02AM
Type: Standard
Number of rounds: 3
Time for argument: Two days
Max argument characters: 10,000
Voting period: One week
Point system: Winner selection
Voting system: Open

Contender / Con

RationalMadman

1706

rating

563

debates

68.12%

won

Description

Salt Lake City is diverse and progressive. In the past eight years, it's been ranked as the third-most hipster city in the world, the queerest city in America, and the fourth-best city for millennials to live in. Millennials make up nearly half of the city’s mortgages, compared to the national average of 9%. Nearly 1 in 4 city residents is Hispanic. In some neighborhoods, two-thirds of school children speak Spanish at home. no red state is safe https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/the-next-red-state-to-turn-purple-utah

Round 1

PaulVerliane

10.30.2019 12:56AM

Pro

"It’s been nearly 20 years since a Democrat won statewide office in Utah, and more than 50 years since a Democratic presidential candidate won the state.
But that sea of red is beginning to recede as young professionals from other states move in to take advantage of Utah’s job market, which ranks as the best in the nation.
Utah is the country’s fastest-growing state. Some of that growth is due to the high birthrate among Mormon families. But much of it comes from young people moving in from out of state, attracted by great jobs, a relatively low cost of living, and Utah’s natural beauty."https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/the-next-red-state-to-turn-purple-utah Any conservative state with a good economy is doomed to become a liberal state eventually

RationalMadman

10.31.2019 11:00PM

Con

First, prove it's an infestation. Then, prove that Utah happened. Utah is a place, not an event.

Round 2

PaulVerliane

11.02.2019 07:01AM

Pro

Infestation is a loaded word "What are examples of loaded words?

A loaded word is chosen because the speaker or writer believes it'll be more persuasive than an alternate neutral word. Examples include: Aggravate vs. annoy.

...

Examples of Loaded Words in Sentences

She is making categorical selections based on favoritism. ...
We are making tremendous progress in our foreign relations.

More items...

Loaded Language Examples - YourDictionary"

https://examples.yourdictionary.com › loaded-language-examples

"While Utah as a whole remains predominantly Mormon, Salt Lake City, the state’s capital and largest city, is now majority non-Mormon. I recently spent several weeks in the city and met as many non-Mormons (evangelicals, Catholics, Jews, ex-Mormons, and even a few Scientologists) as I did Mormons.

00:0101:06

To appreciate how defiantly progressive Salt Lake City is, take the TRAX light rail to Temple Square, the city center and heart of the Church. Church members are forbidden from consuming alcohol. But I counted at least a dozen bars within walking distance of Salt Lake Temple, including some that mock the Mormon culture with names like the Beer Hive Pub, the Tavernacle, and Ex-Wifes Place.
Or drive a few blocks south to Harvey Milk Boulevard and check out the Coffee Garden, Centered City Yoga, or Club Try-angles, which advertises itself as a “high-energy gay bar offering the coldest, cheapest and biggest drinks in town.”https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/the-next-red-state-to-turn-purple-utah infestation, i rest my case

RationalMadman

11.04.2019 05:41AM

Con

Pro admits to having a loaded resolution. It's not only loaded because of 'infest' but because it seems to think 'Utah' is something that 'happens'. Utah cannot happen, it is not an event or process. Utah is a State in the US [https://www.utah.gov/index.html].

Aside from that, the negative connotation of 'infest' is not explored by Pro, it merely seems to be clear that people who are not Mormons are coming in to take advantage of the job market. If you read the copy-paste series of non-original arguments that Pro makes, it follows that there is no infestation in the first place and that it's not hipsters doing it but hardworking job seekers.

infest
verb [ T ]

UK

/ɪnˈfest/

US

/ɪnˈfest/

(of animals and insects that carry disease) to cause a problem by being present in large numbers:
The barn was infested with rats.

- https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/infest

How can Hipsters be the ones moving to conform to jobseeking supply and demand?

In its most simplest terms, a hipster is an individual who wants to know things. Whether it’s knowing of a band before anyone else, or knowing about the conflict in Syria, the history of taxidermy or obscure words in 20th century Americana. A hipster is someone that’s eager to learn, to see—and yes—even to do. Being a hipster means you’re part of a subculture. As a demographic, hipsters try to set themselves apart from culture as a whole, while simultaneously remaining within the culture. This is nothing extraordinary for a subculture, and yet there’s a certain stigma applied to the “hipster” label.

The term, Hipster, has become used rather frequently to identify anyone that doesn’t appear mainstream. So hipsters stand out from the crowd. (Even if they fit into their stereotypical niche of standing out from the crowd.) Personally, “hipster” is just about the only label I’ve ever felt comfortable with. It’s a subculture so vague it can cover all manners of sins, styles, and vices.

- https://travelsofadam.com/what-is-a-hipster/

What exactly is an anti-mainstream seeker of knowledge (a hipster) doing moving with the mainstream who are seeking jobs in Utah?

Round 3

PaulVerliane

11.04.2019 08:59AM

Pro

I think Utah is proof that if a conservative state has a good economy a decent quality of life good schools and affordable housing, millennials will eventually move there and take over https://fox13now.com/2019/05/23/red-state-utah-may-be-turn-a-little-purple-but-the-governor-isnt-worried/

RationalMadman

11.04.2019 09:02AM

Con

I think that for a left-winger, you're sure a real hypocrite.

PaulVerliane

11.04.2019 09:09AM

Name calling is a cognitive bias and a technique to promote propaganda. Propagandists use the name-calling technique to invoke fear in those exposed to the propaganda, resulting in the formation of a negative opinion about a person, group, or set of beliefs or ideas.[1] The method is intended to provoke conclusions and actions about a matter apart from an impartial examinations of the facts of the matter. When this tactic is used instead of an argument,[citation needed] name-calling is thus a substitute for rational, fact-based arguments against an idea or belief, based upon its own merits, and becomes an argumentum ad hominem.[2]

Politicians sometimes resort to “name calling” during political campaigns or public events with the intentions of gaining advantage over, or defending themselves from, an opponent or critic. Often such name calling takes the form of labelling an opponent as an unreliable and untrustworthy quantity, such as use of the term "flip-flopper".

PaulVerliane

11.04.2019 09:07AM

Name calling is not an argmument it is lack of one

Username

11.09.2019 04:56AM

Criterion

Pro

Tie

Con

Points

Winner

1 point(s)

Reason:

Pro asserts that Utah is what happens when hipsters infest a red state. Pro explains this by showing a movement of younger people into the state, making the state vote much more left wing than it has in a long time.

Con asks Pro to prove it is an "infestation" and to prove that Utah "happened", in a semantics argument.

Pro *admits* that he was using loaded language and talks about the progressiveness of Salt Lake City.

Con pokes holes in pro's resolution by explaining that Utah did not "happen", that the word "infestation" has negative connotations and in this case there is nothing necessarily negative going on, and that the people who did these things are not really "hipsters", negating Pro's points about leftist leanings in the state since people leftist leanings do not equal hipsters

Pro drops all of Con's arguments and makes a case that Con has already rebutted.

Con should have restated Pro's mistake but insults Pro and drops the bad argument; this is a mistake but ultimately Con successfully muddied the waters of Pro's case via semantics and Pro dropped all of Con's points.