Instigator / Pro
9
1515
rating
2
debates
75.0%
won
Topic
#1575
The Caped Crusader VS Iron Man
Status
Finished
The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.
Winner & statistics
Winner
9
0
After 9 votes and with 9 points ahead, the winner is...
MindShot
Tags
Parameters
- Publication date
- Last updated date
- Type
- Standard
- Number of rounds
- 4
- Time for argument
- Three days
- Max argument characters
- 8,000
- Voting period
- One month
- Point system
- Winner selection
- Voting system
- Open
Contender / Con
0
1470
rating
3
debates
16.67%
won
Description
Do both of these:
If Batman and Iron Man planned to fight each other on a specific time, who would win?
AND
If they were trying to kill each other secretly, without both of them knowing, who would win?
If one scenario turns out as Batman and the other was Iron Man, pick witch one had a stronger argument.
Round 1
Pro
#1
Batman could beat Iron Man using an EMP. The EMP would make Iron Man’s suit not work. After the EMP, Batman would win with all his weapons and superior fighting skills that he spent years on, against Iron Man just having a broken suit with no weapons and worse fighting skills.
In Batman: Hush Batman beat Bane in a fight without even moving. He let his jet do all the work. With his jet, Batmobile, and other weapons and gadgets, he could easily beat Iron Man.
In Justice League Doom, Batman has ways to take down the whole Justice League. So if Batman can take down the whole Justice League, then he can definitely figure out how to take down Iron Man.
BTW Batman has an IQ of 192, and Iron Man has an IQ of 160. Batman > Iron Man
Con
#2
Thank
you to my opponent for proposing this debate. I will be arguing that Tony Stark
(Iron Man) could best Bruce Wayne (Batman) on the field of battle. I will seek
to demonstrate that Stark/Iron Man is both independently and situationally
superior to Wayne/Batman.
Point 1: Superior Standard Combat Ability
For clarity, I am defining standard in this context as most commonly recognisable, which might well be interpreted also to mean the form associated with minimal necessary force against fodder. Thus, in this case, it would be the typical Batman we see in the movies, best represented in Christopher Nolan’s Batman Begins, and Tony Stark’s Mark II suit.
In the defined context of standard combat ability, Iron Man has a substantial advantage over the Dark Knight. While my opponent has correctly identified Bruce Wayne’s superior hand-to-hand fighting ability – mitigated in any case by the Stark armour’s longstanding predictive avoidance measures – he quite simply lacks the strength to harm Stark or disable the functions of his suit by brute force.
Iron Man, by virtue of mechanical thrust, can strike both faster and harder than Batman, and is able to withstand greater levels of physical stress as a result of his metal armour. He also possesses short-range firepower far in excess of anything possessed by Batman, most notably the repulsor units embedded in the suit’s hands and chest, which have been shown to be capable of severing limbs and disintegrating flesh and bone. His manoeuvrability is greater owing to his standing flight capabilities, and this remains true even against Batman’s powerful, yet unwieldy vehicles.
Point 2: Superior Standard Range of Operation
Likewise, Iron Man possesses a much greater range of operation than Batman. Even accounting for Batman’s vehicles, Iron Man is able to travel faster and higher than his counterpart, has no discernible inferiority in close-quarters manoeuvrability (for example, flying through gaps), and is capable of substantially more lethal long-range attacks, not least the target-seeking cluster weapons, including missiles, which are a feature even of his earliest suits.
Point 3 & Rebuttal 1: Situational Adaptability
As my opponent has noted, Batman has beaten each member of the Justice League, despite being greatly naturally disadvantaged. While admirable, this in itself proves very little; a common trope of the superhero genre is the accomplishment of goals against seemingly insurmountable odds, including against villains with enhanced abilities. For every being of exponentially greater power whom Batman has bested, we could easily find the equivalent for Iron Man.
There is, however, reason to suppose that Iron Man could outwit Batman due to evidence of his superior situational adaptability. Both characters are rich and intelligent men capable of inventing elaborate and sophisticated technology to neutralise the other; but where both men have extensive research facilities, only Iron Man has any notable situational adaptability. To quote Obadiah Stane, “Tony Stark was able to build [a working, portable arc reactor and fully operational Mark I battle suit] in a cave with a box of scraps.” Stark has the ability to use the elements of his environment in unorthodox ways to create effective defensive and offensive tools [1]. When you factor in his self-developed AI programs and later adaptive nanotech innovations, it becomes clear that ‘in the field’, so to speak, Tony Stark has a greatly enhanced situational adaptability that Batman simply cannot match.
Rebuttal 2: Electro-Magnetic Pulse
Using an EMP device is a predictable strategy against a man who uses an electronic means of combat, so it makes sense that Iron Man’s suit already contains several failsafe defences against that sort of attack. For a start, transient surge protection is pretty standard, even in the real world, to mitigate against the threat of disrupted voltage flows [2]. Next, the tough alloys that make up Iron Man’s suit act much like a Faraday Cage, protecting the internal electronics from outside interference [3]. Further, as the listed source cites, there are several occasions in which an EMP has been used on Stark in the comics, and the suit has responded to them in several ways, not least by simply detecting the threat and rebooting to avoid permanent damage – the process takes around 10 seconds, during which he remains sealed inside a tough metal armour [4]. An EMP would have little to no effect on Iron Man’s suit.
Rebuttal 3: Technological Prowess
“With his jet, Batmobile, and other weapons and gadgets, Batman could easily beat Iron Man.”
My opponent seems to be forgetting that there are literally hundreds of unique versions of the Iron Man suit, most of which can be operated remotely and by advanced combat AI – as demonstrated in Iron Man 3. This diversity again adds to Iron Man’s adaptability in combat, and renders any discernible advantage in accessories null and void. Stark is a master of electrical and mechanical engineering, and a developer of the among the most advanced Artificial Intelligence system in his universe – there is nothing Bruce Wayne can develop which cannot be at least matched by Stark.
Rebuttal 4: Intellect
My opponent claims that Bruce Wayne has a superior IQ to Tony Stark. He has cited no evidence for this. It appears that his misconception comes from the fact that Marvel do not rank their heroes by IQ, but by an intelligence score included in their Power Grid rankings [5]. Thus, while DC have attributed to Wayne a 192 IQ, Stark is listed as an Intelligence 6 hero, which is defined as an IQ of 160 or above. My opponent seems to be conflating this with Stark having a 160 IQ, though of course his IQ could be anywhere between 160 and outright omniscience. Indeed, the company Alphatest have calculate that Stark’s IQ rests around the 270 mark, which gives him a substantial advantage in the domain of IQ over Bruce Wayne [6][7].
Thank you.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Man#Skills
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surge_arrester
[3] https://interestingengineering.com/how-does-a-faraday-cage-work
[4] https://www.quora.com/What-happens-when-an-EMP-hits-Iron-Man
[5] https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Power_Grid
[6] https://www.iq-test.net/tony-stark-iq-pms77.html
[7] https://www.iq-test.net/batman-iq-score-pms73.html
Point 1: Superior Standard Combat Ability
For clarity, I am defining standard in this context as most commonly recognisable, which might well be interpreted also to mean the form associated with minimal necessary force against fodder. Thus, in this case, it would be the typical Batman we see in the movies, best represented in Christopher Nolan’s Batman Begins, and Tony Stark’s Mark II suit.
In the defined context of standard combat ability, Iron Man has a substantial advantage over the Dark Knight. While my opponent has correctly identified Bruce Wayne’s superior hand-to-hand fighting ability – mitigated in any case by the Stark armour’s longstanding predictive avoidance measures – he quite simply lacks the strength to harm Stark or disable the functions of his suit by brute force.
Iron Man, by virtue of mechanical thrust, can strike both faster and harder than Batman, and is able to withstand greater levels of physical stress as a result of his metal armour. He also possesses short-range firepower far in excess of anything possessed by Batman, most notably the repulsor units embedded in the suit’s hands and chest, which have been shown to be capable of severing limbs and disintegrating flesh and bone. His manoeuvrability is greater owing to his standing flight capabilities, and this remains true even against Batman’s powerful, yet unwieldy vehicles.
Point 2: Superior Standard Range of Operation
Likewise, Iron Man possesses a much greater range of operation than Batman. Even accounting for Batman’s vehicles, Iron Man is able to travel faster and higher than his counterpart, has no discernible inferiority in close-quarters manoeuvrability (for example, flying through gaps), and is capable of substantially more lethal long-range attacks, not least the target-seeking cluster weapons, including missiles, which are a feature even of his earliest suits.
Point 3 & Rebuttal 1: Situational Adaptability
As my opponent has noted, Batman has beaten each member of the Justice League, despite being greatly naturally disadvantaged. While admirable, this in itself proves very little; a common trope of the superhero genre is the accomplishment of goals against seemingly insurmountable odds, including against villains with enhanced abilities. For every being of exponentially greater power whom Batman has bested, we could easily find the equivalent for Iron Man.
There is, however, reason to suppose that Iron Man could outwit Batman due to evidence of his superior situational adaptability. Both characters are rich and intelligent men capable of inventing elaborate and sophisticated technology to neutralise the other; but where both men have extensive research facilities, only Iron Man has any notable situational adaptability. To quote Obadiah Stane, “Tony Stark was able to build [a working, portable arc reactor and fully operational Mark I battle suit] in a cave with a box of scraps.” Stark has the ability to use the elements of his environment in unorthodox ways to create effective defensive and offensive tools [1]. When you factor in his self-developed AI programs and later adaptive nanotech innovations, it becomes clear that ‘in the field’, so to speak, Tony Stark has a greatly enhanced situational adaptability that Batman simply cannot match.
Rebuttal 2: Electro-Magnetic Pulse
Using an EMP device is a predictable strategy against a man who uses an electronic means of combat, so it makes sense that Iron Man’s suit already contains several failsafe defences against that sort of attack. For a start, transient surge protection is pretty standard, even in the real world, to mitigate against the threat of disrupted voltage flows [2]. Next, the tough alloys that make up Iron Man’s suit act much like a Faraday Cage, protecting the internal electronics from outside interference [3]. Further, as the listed source cites, there are several occasions in which an EMP has been used on Stark in the comics, and the suit has responded to them in several ways, not least by simply detecting the threat and rebooting to avoid permanent damage – the process takes around 10 seconds, during which he remains sealed inside a tough metal armour [4]. An EMP would have little to no effect on Iron Man’s suit.
Rebuttal 3: Technological Prowess
“With his jet, Batmobile, and other weapons and gadgets, Batman could easily beat Iron Man.”
My opponent seems to be forgetting that there are literally hundreds of unique versions of the Iron Man suit, most of which can be operated remotely and by advanced combat AI – as demonstrated in Iron Man 3. This diversity again adds to Iron Man’s adaptability in combat, and renders any discernible advantage in accessories null and void. Stark is a master of electrical and mechanical engineering, and a developer of the among the most advanced Artificial Intelligence system in his universe – there is nothing Bruce Wayne can develop which cannot be at least matched by Stark.
Rebuttal 4: Intellect
My opponent claims that Bruce Wayne has a superior IQ to Tony Stark. He has cited no evidence for this. It appears that his misconception comes from the fact that Marvel do not rank their heroes by IQ, but by an intelligence score included in their Power Grid rankings [5]. Thus, while DC have attributed to Wayne a 192 IQ, Stark is listed as an Intelligence 6 hero, which is defined as an IQ of 160 or above. My opponent seems to be conflating this with Stark having a 160 IQ, though of course his IQ could be anywhere between 160 and outright omniscience. Indeed, the company Alphatest have calculate that Stark’s IQ rests around the 270 mark, which gives him a substantial advantage in the domain of IQ over Bruce Wayne [6][7].
Thank you.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Man#Skills
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surge_arrester
[3] https://interestingengineering.com/how-does-a-faraday-cage-work
[4] https://www.quora.com/What-happens-when-an-EMP-hits-Iron-Man
[5] https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Power_Grid
[6] https://www.iq-test.net/tony-stark-iq-pms77.html
[7] https://www.iq-test.net/batman-iq-score-pms73.html
Round 2
Pro
#3
Point 1
My opponent said, “While my opponent has correctly identified Bruce Wayne’s superior hand-to-hand fighting ability – mitigated in any case by the Stark armour’s longstanding predictive avoidance measures – he quite simply lacks the strength to harm Stark or disable the functions of his suit by brute force.” Batman’s Batmobile has lasers and missiles. To make sure Iron Man doesn’t dodge them, Batman could call the bats from the Batcave (Seen in “Batman: Year One.”) to fly all around Iron Man. All those bats would hinder Iron Man from shooting Batman with his laser. We know from Justice League: Doom, that Batman has Scarecrow’s gas. Batman could use that gas after he breaks Iron Man’s suit.
Point 2
In Civil War, Captain America was crushing Iron Man in a fight, when Iron Man had a suit even better than the Mark II suit. My opponent stated at the beginning of his debate, “Thus, in this case, it would be the typical Batman we see in the movies, best represented in Christopher Nolan’s Batman Begins, and Tony Stark’s Mark II suit.” So if Captain America could take down Iron Man, then Batman could do even better.
Point 3
Iron Man’s suit has a battery. Batman is very good at stalling. So if Batman stalls enough, he can make Iron Man’s suit run out of battery.
Rebuttal 1
My opponent said, “Even accounting for Batman’s vehicles, Iron Man is able to travel faster and higher than his counterpart, has no discernible inferiority in close-quarters manoeuvrability (for example, flying through gaps)”. As seen in Batman the Brave and the Bold, season one, episode twenty-five, Batman has a small flying vehicle that could fit between small gaps [1]. You said we are discussing Mark 2 Iron Man, and, according to the Iron Man Fandom, it was “constructed as a prototype with an emphasis on exploring flight potential” [2]. In Teen Titans Go To The Movies, Batman chased the Teen Titans in his Batmobile, leading the Teen Titans to keep attacking the batmobile as they ran away. You can see it changed from the batmobile to a motorcycle, a scooter, and, lastly, Alfred running. So Batman most likely would have something similar with his Batjet, definitely giving Batman ways to fly fast through small gaps.Rebuttal 2
At the beginning of your debate, you said, “Thus, in this case, it would be the typical Batman we see in the movies, best represented in Christopher Nolan’s Batman Begins, and Tony Stark’s Mark II suit.” I’m not sure, but I would assume that the mark 2 suit would be vulnerable to EMP. If it isn’t, however, Iron Man could withstand the EMP.
Rebuttal 3
My opponent stated “only Iron Man has any notable situational adaptability. To quote Obadiah Stane, ‘Tony Stark was able to build [a working, portable arc reactor and fully operational Mark I battle suit] in a cave with a box of scraps.’ Stark has the ability to use the elements of his environment in unorthodox ways to create effective defensive and offensive tools [1]. When you factor in his self-developed AI programs and later adaptive nanotech innovations, it becomes clear that ‘in the field’, so to speak, Tony Stark has a greatly enhanced situational adaptability that Batman simply cannot match.” First of all, that does not prove that he can beat Batman in a fight. Also, Batman could do that. Batman makes cool weapons in a cave all the time, anyhow. He built a whole base with all SORTS of fancy features in a cave. But, of course, that is his home :). In Justice League: War, Batman realized he needed Superman’s help to take down Darkseid. So thought of a master plan super quickly. He made it look like he was some normal person, so that one of Darkseid’s minions would pick him up, so that he can free Superman.
Criterion
Pro
Tie
Con
Points
Winner
1 point(s)
Reason:
Arguments and sources strongly favored CON but triple forfeit wipes out the advantage. PRO wins by default
Criterion
Pro
Tie
Con
Points
Winner
1 point(s)
Reason:
Case was really weak, but FF in the debate was bad conduct, therefore Pro wins
Criterion
Pro
Tie
Con
Points
Winner
1 point(s)
Reason:
With such a detailed opening round, I hate that it boils down to this, but FF.
Credit to pro for identifying that Iron Man's armor becomes weaker and weaker with each upgrade, such that a steroid junky could damage it with his fists in Civil War (comparatively, the original prototype could walk forward into rains of bullets).
I'm afraid I'm a normie of the most contemptible sort. I don't watch much television or film - I'm a gamer at heart - and what I do watch is generic dross like Pacific Rim, Godzilla and Marvel.
Either of you interested in movie comics outside of Iron Man? I'm keeping my fingers crossed that we get an Inhumans fan, as I've been trying to have an X-Men vs. Inhumans related debate.