The United States is greater than Canada.

1566

rating

debates

56.9%

won

Description

BoP shared

Round 1

11.13.2019 05:42AM

Pro

Definitions

Great-of an extent, amount, or intensity considerably above the normal or average.(source)

Does my opponent agree to this?

Military

America is the largest military power in the world, Canada is merely the 21st largest. Canada is closer to Algeria than America here. America is also one of 9 countries to own nukes, Canada doesn’t have nukes.

Economy

America is the world's largest economy. America is nearly 1,200% wealthier than Canada actually. America is better off by $16,431‬, per person. If GDP wasn’t enough, America enjoys the highest disposable income, and the highest disposable household income. But it doesn’t end there, America has the 4th highest average wages, Canada has the 12th highest. I guarantee my opponent will point to poverty in America being higher by a few percentage points, but America’s poor live better than any developed country. We also see American’s holding larger houses than Canadians on Average.

Innovation

To continue, America has the most technologically powerful economy in the world, as well as being the second most innovative country just behind South Korea. The World Bank put Canada in 19th for science and technology, with America ranking 8th.

Natural resources

Canada’s natural resources are worth 715 billion dollars, in America it’s 45 trillion dollars. This means the worth of America’s natural resources is 62 times larger, this is much greater than the population difference.

Tourism/Culture

Tourism

America accepts nearly 4 times more tourists than Canada, and despite America only ranking 3rd internationally, America makes more money from tourists than any other country.

Culture/Media

America produces the 4th most movies and American films generate the most money, so America does much better than Canada here. America also has much more cultural influence. To continue, America has the single largest music market.

Soft Power

America has the most soft power of any country.

Agriculture

Here it isn’t even close. America leads the world in corn, almond, berry, grapefruit, strawberry, turkey, beef, and chicken production.

History

America has a superior heritage, being ahead by 20 places.

I look forward to an excellent debate over Canada and America. I'd implore my opponent to outline his case in round 1 as I have.

11.13.2019 08:06PM

Con

Greetings, and thanks for this wonderful debate. Since my opponent didn't define, I'll assume that "greatest" could also have relatable historic or future references. Let's start off with some clash...

A) CLASH

My opponent stated...

America is the largest military power in the world.

And that's a good thing because? You see, here in the mind of a Squid, we like to promote peace, and we believe that violence is never the solution. Yes, having a military is always good, but having the strongest killing machine in the world is nothing to brag about. In fact, America's military have killed at least 200 000 civilians in wars. Now tell me, is that something to brag about?

America's spending half their budget, on violence, while Canada only spends a mere 1.2%. Why? Because any more would lead to higher taxes, and cutting revenue from priority spending like healthcare or social programs. So in this case, smaller is actually better.

Oh, and historically speaking, no offense, but, did Canada ever lose to Vietnam rice farmers?

History

Let's analyse some of the things that happened in America's history:

Trail of Tears - 1831/37

Displacement 46 000 Native Americans
Killed thousands, including 4 000 Cherokee
Many more displacement events followed

Dred Scott decision

Ruled that African people could not become citizens
And they weren't protected under the Constitution

Canada'a History:

Not a single major civil war
Ended slavery 30 years before US
No major wars with Native tribes
And more!

Economy [non-chronological order]

Although you point out all the benefits of America's economy, you seemed to miss the benefits about Canada's economy. True, America has one of the strongest economies in the world, but what are the people actually getting out of it? How is the money actually being used? This brings me up to my first argument -- that Canada's society is better than America's.

B) CANADA'S BETTER SOCIETY

I. Population's Happiness

Here's a fact. Canada is in the list of the top 10 happiest countries in the world! Where's America? Somewhere down there. In fact, America is currently dropping places each year!

II. Healthcare

According to Bloomberg:

The U.S. life expectancy of 78.8 years ranks 27th. It has the fourth highest infant mortality rate in the OECD, the sixth highest maternal mortality rate and the ninth highest likelihood of dying at a younger age from a host of ailments, including cardiovascular disease and cancer

Ouch. And keep in mind that America spends the most on healthcare out of any other country in the world. Canada on the other hand has a 2.9 year higher life expectancy, 2.2 less suicides per 100 000 people, and a 12.4% less obese population. Oh, and Canada spends half of what America does on healthcare. Talk about well spent money.

In fact, half a million families go bankrupt each year in America due to expensive medical bills. So, not to brag or anything, but in Canada it's free.

III. Countries Leaders

Let's compare what the two leaders achieved for society's good.

Justin Trudeau:

Created the first ever gender balanced cabinet
Canada resettled the most refugees in 2018
Taking climate change seriously
And more

Donald "Jenius" Trump:

No further explanation needed.

C) CONCLUSION

A lot was covered in the first round. From economics, to social, and political topics.

In the next round, I will be presenting my second argument -- how Canada's current political and economic trend is better than America's. I will also be doing a lot of clashing.

Thank you.

Round 2

“The U.S. ranks high on the infant mortality list largely because we actually measure neonatal deaths, notably in premature infant fatalities.”

11.15.2019 03:24AM

Pro

Military

America is the largest military power in the world.

“And that's a good thing because?”

It is an affirmative good to be able to use your power to stop foreign forces, and to protect your allies. Actually, America protects Canada, showing how much better America is, if we can’t trust Canada to protect it’s own borders, how can it be greater?

“killed at least 200 000 civilians”

Your source doesn’t state the U.S is the sole cause. It looks at deaths in Pakistan even, America hasn’t been at war with Pakistan recently(if ever). It does look at Iraq/Afghanistan, but there are also terrorist groups causing much of this. But, the sheer fact that America has the ability to intervene militarily, is an example of American greatness.

half their budget, on violence, while Canada only spends a mere 1.2%.

Your statement is false, America spends 15% of the tax revenue on defence(Canada spends 7%). Canada gets away with spending less because America fits the bill for the Canadian military.

Happiness

There are contradicting sources on this. Many place America ahead of Canada for happiness. I would say America is happier, Americans are able to enjoy cinemas far more often for example. As well as Americans just making more money, and income is highly linked to happiness. So Americans are indeed happier.

Healthcare

My opponents arguments are sound but off target in my opinion. Health outcomes are largely more indicative of a nation's healthcare system as this source states.

Health Outcomes

American’s have the highest cancer survival rates. America bests Canada for breast cancer, for male colorectal cancer, for female colorectal cancer, and for prostate cancer. American’s have much lower wait times as well. Americans wait about 30 days less to see a gynecologist, about 10 days less to see a cardiologist, and 113 days less to see an orthodontist. On the whole for specialty care, Americans wait about 42 days less.

Life Expectancy

If you subtract fatal injuries like car accidents, America trounces every other country for life expectancy.

Infant Mortality

half a million families go bankrupt each year in America due to expensive medical bills.

And yet Canadian personal bankruptcy rates are higher. Also, 15% of Canadians 55 or over declared bankruptcy for medical reasons. So Americans file less bankruptcies, and have higher quality, and more efficient care.

Economy

America has one of the strongest economies in the world, but what are the people actually getting out of it?

I already said that they’re getting better wages and more disposable income out of it.

If you look at household debt to income, America is doing much better.

World Leader

I see a temporary leader as being inconsequential to greatness.

Created the first ever gender balanced cabinet

This is remarkably sexist actually. Women are 50% of the cabinet, but only make up 27% of all elected officials.

History

Low on characters but I’ll say this. Pointing to anecdotal cases doesn’t grant Canada a better heritage. Both nations have a troubled past, Canada kept residential schools for 23 years longer than America. Canada turned away a refugee ship with 900 Jews on it in WW2. Countries do bad things. America has more influence. America also has 35,000 museums, Canada has 2,000, so America has a superior heritage. Some US history museums see 3.8 million visitors, about 10% of Canada’s population.

11.16.2019 04:57AM

Con

Hello Trent and thanks for following. Let's get right to it...

A) CLASH

America protects Canada

Funny how you used that source for your text. The very first sentence on that link is "America DOES NOT protect Canada." I'm not sure what happened there, so it would be great if you could explain why you used that link.

It looks at deaths in Pakistan even, America hasn’t been at war with Pakistan recently

The civilians that died in Pakistan, were probably caught in the cross fire from American fighting terrorist groups, or American supported troop fire. Either the case, many civilians have died from American troops.

Canada spends 7%

No, our military doesn't get 7% of our GDP. That's how much they spent, not received.

Happiness

Although the linked you used to to rank America's happiness was not done in an official way by certified professional, but instead by a group of people. The source I used is from the UN, and with many in agreement.

You also mentioned income, but income alone is not enough to boost a country's happiness to a significant degree.

American’s have much lower wait times as well

Yes, but half a million people don't go bankrupt each year in Canada. You also mention how America is leading Canada in cancer treatments, but Canada beats America in almost every other way.

If you subtract fatal injuries like car accidents

Whoa, you can't just take car crash deaths away. If X is bad and that makes Country bad, then I just won't count X. That's not how stuff works!

The U.S. ranks high on the infant mortality list largely because we actually measure neonatal deaths, notably in premature infant fatalities

Interesting detail, although America still does worse than Canada.

I see a temporary leader as being inconsequential to greatness [..] remarkably sexist actually

Temporary leader? He's our prime minister for a couple of years. Also creating a gender neutral cabinet is not sexist! It's also better than America's.

America also has 35,000 museums

And where did they get those artifacts? From pillaging tribes and cities in historic times! In fact, most likely the more artifacts a museum has, the worse its history was. Just take a look at Britain for example! Britain was arguably the dominant superpower in historic times, and raided all but 22 countries in the world, and look how many artifacts it has!

B) ARGUMENTS

I. Measurement systems

How many inches are in 4.16 feet? Yeah, I don't know either.

3 countries don't use the superior metric system. And in fact, since America actually caused a million dollar satellite to get wasted! If only America followed the metric system...

II. Political and Economic Trends

America is slowing down. Things like Trump, automation, Donald, trade wars, and John.

True, Canada's economy is also slowing down, but at least we don't attack other countries by mail, have dangerous riots, and more!

Our foreign relations are way better, and it shows. Accepting refugees, not making other countries pay for a wall, and having a more diverse population.

This makes Canada feel like a roe accepting country, with a better cultural interaction and diversity, leading to new ideas and world views.

C) CONCLUSION

Remember, the better country is not always the one with the stronger military, or the better economy, it's the one with the better people.Canada has a diverse culture, polite leader, and an overall better society (healthcare, social services).

Con talks about better military, more museums, higher economy, but that doesn't matter. Those are just plain facts. Better social services, healthcare, culture, and society are what really matter. Those are the things that are relatable directly to you, the people, and what Canada excels at. In the final round, I will be talking about the stereotypes between the two countries, and talk about why it matters.

Thank you.

Round 3

11.16.2019 07:39AM

Pro

Military

the very first sentence on that link is "America DOES NOT protect Canada

That isn't the first sentence, the first post noted how America is obligated to protect Canada, the second post just goes on about how Canada has helped America militarily in certain occasions, neglecting the fact that the 21st largest military won't be doing as much defending as the largest. Really a thread wasn't the best source choice, here is a better one.

The civilians that died in Pakistan, were probably caught in the cross fire from American fighting terrorist groups

Or they were killed by terrorist groups themselves. The sheer fact that America has the ability to intervene is impressive. If virtuosity is your complaint, it's quite virtuous to protect 67 nations.

our military doesn't get 7% of our GDP. That's how much they spent, not received.

What do you mean. They’re receiving tax dollars, the military isn’t free to spend what it wants, by GDP, America spends 3.1% to protect 67 other nations. Despite many of these defence pacts being mutual, it’s fair to say the largest military will do more defending than the 21st largest.

Economy/Political Trends

America is slowing down

Of course America’s growth rate isn’t going to increase dramatically, it is very hard to grow 20.5 trillion dollars by 5% for example, if we look at TOTAL services added to the economy, Canadian growth is flat, America has most recently hit an all time high. Funnily enough, America still trounces Canada for GDP growth rate. Truly showing how insignificant Canada’s economy is.

Automation

This merely proves my point, Canadian jobs are far more at risk to automation than in America.

Accepting refugees,

This once again proves my point, as of 2018, America accepts more than double the refugees.

but half a million people don't go bankrupt each year in Canada

But 15% of Canadians 55 or over declared bankruptcy for medical reasons. If we just look at the 6 million Canadians Aged 65+(can’t find numbers for 55+), and apply that 15%, we get 900,000 Canadians 65+ going bankrupt for medical reasons. And because there are more 55+ year olds than 65+ year olds, that number for people 55+ will be even higher. So this is a point in favour of America. If you have time, you can tally up the number of Canadians 55+ here, it’s 11,854,125 over 55, 15% of that is way more than ½ of a million.

can't just take car crash deaths away

This was to prove that the American healthcare system is higher quality, and that Canada’s “better” healthcare system wasn’t causing their higher life expectancy.

Neonatal deaths

America still does worse than Canada.

True...by 0.1 per 1000. This was to prove that it’s merely different classifications of infant mortality that lead to these disparities.

attack other countries by mail

Wouldn’t call this an attack, he just said “don’t be a tough guy, don’t be a fool”, but he was advising the Turkish leader to abstain from being aggressive toward some supposed kurds. Trump said he didn’t want to see thousands of people dead, and how he’d make Turkey pay economically if he did attack these people, which is completely reasonable.

more diverse population.

Canada isn’t diverse, 86% of Canada is White European, vs 70% in America, so a ton of homogeneity in Canada.

Happiness

America's happiness was not done in an official way

How? It was performed on a massive scale, so the data is certainly proficient. Agree?

where did they get those artifacts? From pillaging tribes and cities in historic times!

Both America and Canada have stolen artifacts and both are returning them in massive numbers. American heritage is still superior.

My opponent dropped much of my case. I'd implore a vote in my favour.

Good debate.

11.17.2019 04:25AM

Con

Hello Trent and thanks for this wonderful debate. Regardless of the outcome, I had fun here. Let's begin with a short little text...

Clash

This will be like a summary. I'll be going over most of the points discussed in this debate, and refining them.

Con states that America has a superior military

This is of mixed value

America has the strongest military, but,
They have killed many civilians

Con states that America has a better economy

America does have more money, but,
Canada's people actually get more out of it

A big example is Canada's better healthcare

Con states that America is more innovated

Careful, as that may not be a good thing

More innovation could mean more job loss

Con states that America has more natural resources

Keep in mind that natural resources is something you can't change
Also, why does that make a nation better?

Con states that America has more tourism

Now flip it. How do other countries like America?

In fact, America is one of the worst tourists out there!
And many other sources agree

Con states that America has a better media

Again, careful. This could be a bad thing

Homogenization, hate, and racism are all aspects of media
Widespread false information and bias are also aspects

Con states that America has the best soft power

Keep in mind that Con has not stated any evidence backing up this claim

Con states that America produces the most food

Keep in mind that Canada has almost the identical agricultural growth as the States
Also, Canada excels at growing other products

Certain types of wheat, oats, pulses, canola, and of course maple

Wheat is a major cereal crop, so a high production of it is always beneficial to the people

Con states that America is more happy than Canada

However this is false, and numerous in depth studies confirm this

Who doesn't want to live in a happy country?

Con states that America has a better healthcare system

However, I would disagree on this

Canada's health spending is more efficient

Canada spends less, but achieves a better result

This means a healthier population for Canada, for you

America's life expectancy is lower
It's not free like Canada's

And since it's not free, millions go bankrupt each year!
In Canada, we don't have to pay directly for our healthcare, so we have more money saved up

End.

Also keep in mind that some on Con's points didn't matter at all. Why does having more natural resources make a country better? Con has not yet explained this.

Stereotypes (arguably the most common)

Keep these in mind for my next point.

Canada:

America:

Well, with all this being said,

What actually does make Canada the better than the States? - And why it matters to you, and everyone else

Like stated an proven numerous times before, Canada has a better healthcare, population happiness, and a better leader. All these factors contribute to the society's benefit. This impacts you because, well, you're part of the society, and having better access to healthcare, a more reliable leader, and a overall happier environment, and significantly boost your standards too!

We also measure things in exponents of 10, which makes things so much easier! Still don't believe me? Then how many inches are in 4.16 feet?

I also want to elaborate on leader. A leader of a country (prime minister or president) can have huge impacts on the country itself (society), and other countries as well (take a look at the list above to roughly see what other countries see). Trump compared with Trudeau? No explanation needed.

Well, that concludes this debate. I hope that you've outweighed my text over my opponents. Nonetheless, thank you Trent for this wonderful debate, and I hope to see you soon.

Thank you.

11.28.2019 09:35AM

#28

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@Alec

They can use wind if they have wind. But, having your country's power supply nearly entirely dependent on whether or not the day is windy is not really a good plan.

Alec

11.27.2019 12:11PM

#27

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@bmdrocks21

Canada isin't a good place for solar, but why can't they use wind? I wouldn't force people to use it, but wind seems viable for a place like Canada.

11.17.2019 04:41AM

#26

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@Trent0405

Good debate to you too. I had fun. I'll catch you in our other debate!

11.17.2019 04:26AM

#25

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@DynamicSquid

Good debate my 10 legged friend.

11.16.2019 05:59PM

#24

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@bmdrocks21

"you guys just don't get much sun as far as I know"

Your correct ------- https://www.currentresults.com/Weather-Extremes/sunniest-places-countries-world.php

"You all would have to import a ton of energy."

Yeah, currently renewable energy sources are very inefficient(especially solar).

11.16.2019 05:51PM

#23

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@Trent0405

Yeah, we do need to improve those. However, you guys just don't get much sun as far as I know. You all would have to import a ton of energy.

11.16.2019 05:48PM

#22

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@bmdrocks21

That would be a problem, although I guess we could improve wind and solar via innovation.

11.16.2019 05:44PM

#21

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@Trent0405

So, how exactly do these climate change fellas expect your country to survive without fossil fuels? Solar panels and wind turbines likely won't work well in Canada.

11.16.2019 03:44PM

#20

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@DynamicSquid

TYPO-

I Said-----------"86% of Canada is White European, vs 70% in America"

I meant 60%.

11.15.2019 07:45PM

#19

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@bmdrocks21

Here is a chart showing oil prices over time, dropped hard in late 2014. This also caused Russia and Brazil's recessions in 2014. https://www.macrotrends.net/1369/crude-oil-price-history-chart

Our economy still hasn't returned to it's pre recession size.

https://www.macleans.ca/economy/economicanalysis/how-canadas-economy-went-from-boom-to-recession-so-fast/

11.15.2019 07:38PM

#18

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@Trent0405

Ah, thought that was just a silly jab at your boy Justin.

Didn't know you had a recession and that your economy was linked strongly to oil prices.

11.15.2019 07:36PM

#17

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@bmdrocks21

Things certainly have gotten shaky under Trudeau. I doubt he's the reason for the our recent problems. 2014, 2015, and 2016 were horrible years because of plummeting oil prices, causing a recession. Trudeau had little to do with it I'd say. He ain't helping though.

11.15.2019 07:08PM

#16

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@Trent0405

What, before Trudeau? LMAO

Mharman

11.15.2019 06:38PM

#15

Canada has a higher land mass.

11.15.2019 03:59PM

#14

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@bmdrocks21

When was Canada great?

Well we still are great, but we were better in the early 2010's.

11.15.2019 03:26PM

#13

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@Trent0405

When was Canada great? ;)

(I legitimately know very little about Canadian history)

11.15.2019 03:25PM

#12

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@Trent0405

y0u F@$c1$t!!1!11!!!1!!!

11.15.2019 04:14AM

#11

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@bmdrocks21

MAKE CANADA GREAT AGAIN.

11.15.2019 04:06AM

#10

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@bmdrocks21

Lol, thanks.

#nOtmYpReSiDeNt

11.15.2019 03:48AM

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@Trent0405

You make America proud!

#MAGA

JacquesBonhomme

11.13.2019 09:05AM

probably on the spectrum i have a cousin like that

11.13.2019 06:21AM

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@JacquesBonhomme

He literally just gave us tons of information...

JacquesBonhomme

11.13.2019 05:44AM

in what way?

11.13.2019 02:29AM

Uhh... did Odin just write our speeches for us?

11.12.2019 11:41PM

United States
#17 in Quality of Life Rankings

No Change in Rank from 2018

The United States of America is a North American nation that is the world’s most dominant economic and military power. Likewise, its cultural imprint spans the world, led in large part by its popular culture expressed in music, movies and television. In 2016 the country elected Donald Trump president. Trump's rhetoric and stances on issues including immigration and foreign trade have raised questions around the world, including from the country’s closest allies, about the nation’s future course on the global stage.

READ LESS
FULL PROFILE »
GDP
$19.4 trillion
POPULATION
325.7 million
GDP PER CAPITA, PPP
$59,792

11.12.2019 11:40PM

Canada
#1 in Quality of Life Rankings

No Change in Rank from 2018

READ MORE
Canada takes up about two-fifths of the North American continent, making it the second-largest country in the world after Russia. The country is sparsely populated, with most of its 35.5 million residents living within 125 miles of the U.S. border. Canada’s expansive wilderness to the north plays a large role in Canadian identity, as does the country’s reputation of welcoming immigrants.

GDP
$1.7 trillion
POPULATION
36.7 million
GDP PER CAPITA, PPP
$48,390

11.12.2019 11:39PM

People consistently view a small group of nations as best providing for their citizens. For the fourth consecutive year, Canada ranks No. 1 overall for providing a good quality of life. Survey respondents view the North American country as No. 1 for both being politically stable and having a well-developed public education system, and No. 2 for having a good job market, a perception supported by independent research. The North American country is seen as possessing the fifth best well-developed public health care system. In fact, Canada is rated in the top 10 in all but one of the nine attributes, affordability, where Asian countries dominate.

Seven European countries are ranked in the top 10, and 13 from the continent rank in the top 20. Sweden, Denmark and Norway immediately follow Canada, with Switzerland, Finland, Australia, the Netherlands, New Zealand and Germany also finishing in the top 10.

Countries perceived to provide a lower quality of life perform most poorly in areas concerning personal safety and economic opportunity. Iraq, followed by Iran, Lebanon, Jordan, and Angola are at the bottom of the quality of life ranking. Iraq finishes last in the survey for being friendly to families.

For the second year in a row, the United States ranks No. 17 overall by survey respondents for providing a good quality of life. Its highest ranking is for its job market, where it ranks first. Its lowest ranking came in affordability, where survey responses placed it No. 56.