Instigator / Pro
0
1528
rating
11
debates
59.09%
won
Topic
#1696

The USA has a stronger military than Russia

Status
Finished

The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.

Winner & statistics
Better arguments
0
24
Better sources
0
16
Better legibility
0
8
Better conduct
0
8

After 8 votes and with 56 points ahead, the winner is...

VonKlempter
Parameters
Publication date
Last updated date
Type
Standard
Number of rounds
3
Time for argument
One week
Max argument characters
3,000
Voting period
Two weeks
Point system
Multiple criterions
Voting system
Open
Contender / Con
56
1523
rating
5
debates
60.0%
won
Description

Rules
1. No forfeiting
2. No trolling
3. No excessive cussing

Round Format
R1: Opening statements
R2: Rebuttals
R3: Defense

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@Alec

One obvious difference between birther claims and Trump/Putin collusion claims is the source. The source for the disproved birther claim was Andy Martin, a well known hyper-litigant in Illinois who was banned from the draft and the Illinois Bar for "defect of character" and mental illness. Martin also originated claims that Obama was a secret Muslim. Martin also claims that Obama is the son of Frank Marshall Davis, a well known black communist in the 1950s- of course this claim contradicts the birther claim but I've never encountered a sincere birther so contradictions are beside the point.

Most of the evidence linking Trump to Russia is circumstantial but the evidence is mostly coming from within the US Federal Govt. The Mueller report documents tens of millions of dollars paid to Trump by Russian Oligarchs in cash real estate transactions, many of which paid two and three times the asking price. DeutcheBank which has pled guilty to laundering $80 billion in Putin's money between 2010 and 2014 also loaned Trump $360 million during the same period of time. DeutcheBank employees have also reported handling concealed million dollar transactions between Kushner and Russian Oligarchs. When a Judge ruled 6 weeks ago that DeutcheBank would be required to release all documents concerning Trump, the former exec in charge of Trump & Kushner's accounts, Thomas Bowers, hanged himself.

We know with a high degree of certainty now that Obama warned Trump in Nov 2016 that Mike Flynn was on the Russian payroll and in regular communication with Russia's spymaster, Sergei Kislyak. Flynn himself admitted to Trump on Jan 4 2017 that he was a Russian agent. Nevertheless, Trump appointed Flynn National Security Advisor (US spymaster) 3 weeks later. When the acting Atty Gen Yates warned Trump three days later that our top spy was an employee of Putin's, Trump fired her. Even after Flynn admitted he was a secret agent and pled guilty, Trump still stands by Flynn and says he would like to re-appoint him.

The CIA admitted this fall that they pulled their highest ranking spy in the Kremlin in early 2017 because they were convinced that Trump was seeking that man's identity and Trump had already shared highly classified intelligence directly with Spymaster Kislyak on at least one occasion. That is, the CIA has been convinced that the POTUS could or would give up US spies to Russian intelligence. If the CIA is that suspicious that Trump is a Russian asset, why shouldn't we all be suspicious?

To my mind, the most damning evidence is Trump's fawning compliance with Russian foreign policy- anti-NATO, anti-UN, anti-EU, refusing to condemn or respond to Russian attacks on US personnel, refusing to condemn or respond to Russian attacks on US allies, refusing to condemn or respond to Russian assassinations, surrendering US forts and abandoning US allies to Russian forces in Syria, withholding military aid to Ukraine for 9 months during wartime, opposed to Russian sanctions and in favor of Russia's re-admission to the G8, etc, etc...

I know you have been refraining from debating for a while but this would be a good topic for us to disagree about and we never got a chance to debate.

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@oromagi

I think Trump being a Russian asset might be a rumor; it’s like saying that Obama was born in Africa. Is there evidence to back it up?

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@AvoidDeath

You did not abide by your own "No forfeiting" rule.

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@Barney

Thanks, I just checked my opponent's profile and I reckon I'll need that luck.

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@AvoidDeath
@VonKlempter

Good luck!

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@AvoidDeath

Infographics Show did a good comparison:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBapU_C76t0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6FuZNfFODM

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@oromagi

Nope, he is a Ukranian asset now. Maybe he will be a Zimbabwean one next week.

An army is only as strong as its commander, and America's commander is a Russian asset. Therefore RU is stronger.

This is pretty much a truism.