Instigator / Pro
3
1551
rating
9
debates
66.67%
won
Topic
#1791

Abortion should be legal

Status
Finished

The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.

Winner & statistics
Winner
3
0

After 3 votes and with 3 points ahead, the winner is...

SkepticalOne
Parameters
Publication date
Last updated date
Type
Standard
Number of rounds
4
Time for argument
Two weeks
Max argument characters
10,000
Voting period
One month
Point system
Winner selection
Voting system
Open
Contender / Con
0
1485
rating
1
debates
0.0%
won
Description

Dartballs and I will take on the abortion debate. Neither of us will be arguing an absolute position and understand there must be room for nuance. My opponent allows abortion when the mother's life is threatened by pregnancy. I accept Roe V Wade has laid out reasonable limits on abortion. I anticipate our main point of contention will be, not in the fringe, but, where abortion is most common. Ie. Most abortions occur at or before 13 weeks of pregnancy. I will argue this should be legal, and Darth will argue against it. Each debater will have their own burden to meet.
There will be no new arguments in the final round - only rebuttal and closing.

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@Barney
@CaptainSceptic

I would like to apologize but i forfeited because it was taking too long for my opponent to respond. I respect that the opponent is very busy, but the long wait times lowered my motivation. I apologize for formatting, its harder to do when using ones phone.

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@Barney

Thanks for voting!

As half the debate was forfeited, a conduct only vote is warranted without any analysis of arguments.

Technically a vote for con could still be justified, but I doubt it would pass the BS test, considering SkepticalOne's skill level.

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@Alec

Think again. Better; see the data. Both vas deferens and fallopian tubes can reconnect by completely natural, non-surgical means. Heard of stem cells? We all have them. They exist to regrow healthy tissue from damaged tissue. There are both specific [preprogrammed, if you will, to specific tissue type] and non-specific, generic stem cells. It's what they do. They do decline in numbers with age, but we start with millions of them. Also depends on the relative skill of the surgeon in the first place. Let's just say that all surgeons, like in any profession, are not top notch.

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@fauxlaw

"Vasectomies have a typical failure rate of 1%. "

I think it's .15% over it's lifetime(http://www.malehealthcenter.com/c_vasectomy.html). The majority of these failures are right after the vastectomy when sperm is still present in the penis. This can be solved by either waiting 3 months or jerking off 20x, whichever comes first. Given that guys like to jerk off, I imagine the latter would be preferred, but either works.

I think the vas deferens only reconnect if you get the surgery for it.

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@Alec

See the statistics. Vasectomies have a typical failure rate of 1%. That rises after five to ten years for the simple reason that the vas deferens can re-connect. As Dr. Micheal Crichton once said through Jurassic Park character, Ian Malcom, "Life finds a way."

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@fauxlaw

Abstinence is 100% effective and I want to be abstinent until marriage to avoid STDs and pregnancy. I can't count on other people to be abstinent. I can however count on males to get vasectomies before they have sex if their girlfriends go on a sex strike until their BFs get a vastectomy. Once this is obtained and the sperm is out, then they can have unrestricted sex with no condoms and not get the girl pregnant because of the vastectomy.

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@Alec

In your #3 post, you speak of statistics, and specifically of the statistical success of using condoms vs. vasectomy. There is a process that is 100% effective if practiced with dedicated avoidance: abstinence. Mind over matter, my friend. Many clam it can't be done. When that's their decision; no, it can't. That does not speak to the impossibility of employing the tactic.

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@DarthBalls

I think most women don't think of telling their pro life boyfriends to get vasectomies. I wouldn't call them dumb. If they are given the idea, I think almost every girl will require vasectomies before they agree to sex.

If they cant get an abortion as a backup maybe they'll thi k about it. And honestly if they havent thought about asking men to get a vasectomy...they dumb.

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@DarthBalls

"Women can already decide for themselves not to have sex with men unless they have a vasectomy. "

Yeah, but giving women the idea to go on sex strikes until their partner gets a reversible vastectomy is an idea that I don't think the women thought of. If women get this idea, vasectomies would skyrocket and abortions would fall.

"Freedom comes with extra responsibility but its worth it"

If the girl gets pregnant, then this results in abortion. I wouldn't count on people getting vasectomies on their own; it's been tried for a long time, it hasn't yielded results that result in abortion decreases; contraception has been causing much of the abortion decline. A vastectomy is cheaper, simpler, and less painful then an unwanted pregnancy. If we're going to mandate unwanted pregnancies (which I think we should do, I'm pro life), then mandating vasectomies is consistent pro life ethic.

"What if they're indifferent about having kids."

If they want a kid and their husband wants a kid, they get the vastectomy reversed when they're ready for it.

We would only be enslaving women if we allowed rape. Instead women consent to having sex often while not using contraceptives.

It is their responsibility to say no to those who dont have vasectomies, not the governments job to.make that decision for them.

What if theyre indifferent about having kids. In general men have a higher drive, women hold most of the cards in deciding whether or not more guys get vasectomies

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@DarthBalls

>> "mandatory vasectomies dont make sense"

If they don't make sense, would not defeat that they still make greater sense than enslaving women. Plus it does makes sense if opposed to abortion. It's an afternoon (or morning) of time, you walk out from the procedure, the discomfort is comparable to going through a single period... Plus with the vasectomy switch pretty far in development, undoing it when someone is ready for kids is easy and painless.

As an additional up side: You know it's what Darth Vader would do had they not been melted off. I totally bet Kylo Ren had it done to be more cybernetic like his idol.

Women can already decide for themselves not to have sex with men unless they have a vasectomy. Women and.men can decide the risk they want to take, you dont eliminate risk by getting rid of all choice. Freedom comes with extra responsibility but its worth it

The mother doesnt get the choice for an abortion because her action leads to the killing of another human whose creation was decided by her.

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@DarthBalls

>> "Except this is the U.S. and mandatory vasectomies don't make sense."

Why not? It's easier to force vasectomies to prevent abortions than it is to force a female to be pregnant for 9 months. Vasectomies are reversible too, so when every male worldwide gets a vastectomy, they reverse the vastectomy when they and their wife are ready to have a kid. They reinstate the vastectomy as soon as their wife conceived. Unintended pregnancies and abortions become virtually non existent.

If we can force a female to not have abortions, even though there are ways which she can get around it, can we force all males to get vasectomies? It's easier to accomplish this than to eliminate abortions from banning them. To get males to get vasectomies, the government encourages females not wanting to conceive a kid to go on a sex strike until the male gets a vastectomy and passes the sperm free test. Since no female wants an unintended pregnancy, going on a sex strike has a history of resolving stuff, since most guys are close to addicted to sex.

Except this is the U.S. and mandatory vasectomies dont make sense. You cant force someone to get a vasectomy. What you can do is make abortion illegal, and make people responsible for the care of their child. Maybe that will lead to more voluntary vasectomies.

Also i hear the argument about what to do if the parents are inept and do drugs...my response, create services that the parents must pay for/ work at until they prove they can be good parents.

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@Alec

>> "mandatory vasectomies seem better than mandatory childbirth in an effort to eliminate abortions."

Wholly agree.

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@DarthBalls

Condoms are 98% effective for one use, assuming you use it correctly, but if you have sex 100 times, which 26% of couples do in 2 years the odds of at least one condom failing are:

.98^100= 13.26%

Vasectomies on the other hand, have a lifetime success rate of 99.8% when you wait 3 months or ejaculate 20x, whichever comes first. Sounds like mandatory vasectomies seem better than mandatory childbirth in an effort to eliminate abortions. I want to get one by the time I'm 19 on my own, and I hope other pro lifers do the same. Vasectomies are reversible, so you reverse the vastectomy for enough time to have the kid when your ready for a kid, and then you reinstate the vastectomy right after.

If they dont want to get pregnant then yes they should do what it takes to not get pregnant. Although if you use regular contraception condomns are 98% effective when used right and birth control 99% effective. Go win the lottery!

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@SkepticalOne
@DarthBalls

If your a girl, don't want to get pregnant, but like having sex, require that your boyfriend or husband gets a vastectomy first and ejaculate 25 times first to get the remaining sperm out of his penis before you have any sex with him to avoid pregnancy. Then abortions are gone and people can still lay each other whenever they feel like it in the long term.

Many lefties came up with the idea sarcastically, but I think it's honestly a good idea.

Thoughts?