Instigator / Pro
8
1551
rating
26
debates
57.69%
won
Topic
#1798

The Electoral College should be abolished

Status
Finished

The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.

Winner & statistics
Better arguments
3
3
Better sources
2
4
Better legibility
2
2
Better conduct
1
2

After 2 votes and with 3 points ahead, the winner is...

Christen
Parameters
Publication date
Last updated date
Type
Standard
Number of rounds
5
Time for argument
One week
Max argument characters
15,000
Voting period
Two months
Point system
Multiple criterions
Voting system
Open
Contender / Con
11
1526
rating
5
debates
70.0%
won
Description

Definitions:

ELECTORAL COLLEGE: The Electoral College is a body of electors established by the United States Constitution, which forms every four years for the sole purpose of electing the president and vice president of the United States

ABOLISHED: Formally put an end to.

Burden of Proof: Shared
PRO must prove why it should be abolished.
CON must prove why the system should stay.

-->
@Nevets

I flagged my ow vote and made a comment before yours.

-->
@DrSpy

"Summary, I do think that Pro deserved overall a larger point differential win than this vote shows, I am restricted by the categories."

Given that i voted for Con, i hope Con does not complain to much about me allerting DrSpy to his error.
As a voter for Con, i am not in anyway whatsoever allerting DrSpy for anyother reason than honesty.

DrSpy. You appear to think Pro deserved the victory. You appear under the impression that you awarded him a narrow victory. You did not. Your Maths ended at a 3-3 draw.

Sorry Con. that was not personal. I voted for you.

Dangit. I made a mistake

Conduct point should be neutral.

If this comes down to one point, please change it. Sorry.

-->
@PoliceSheep

It is possible that a president could be elected by a smaller sample that 22% of the electorate if a large enough segment of registered voters do not vote.
"The argument only works..." your "if" statement is not true, by the Constitution, and, unless that is changed, remains un true, therefore, not presently a factor.
Faithless electors will always be a concern, but, to date, they have never affected the outcome of an election.

-->
@fauxlaw

It is possible to become President with just 22% of the popular vote. By getting half +1 in the states of 39 (+DC).

The argument only works if the assumption that states are important - my argument is they shouldn't be.

The idea of faithless electors is also indefensible.

-->
@JesusChrist4Ever

I believe that people should have a say proportionally - not states. States should not have rights like these.

-->
@ramdatt

That's a problem with many systems in the USA.

I believe that the Electoral College should be eliminated but it will never happen. Since the Republican Party benefits, they will block any attempt to eliminate it.

Without the electoral college, the only states that would matter would be California, Texas, Florida, and other high-population states. It is only fair that all states have a say proportional to their population. It makes the most sense logically

By the way, the assertion by Pro that states still depend on selection of electoral college delegates by the respective State governments is no longer true, although it was at one time. Every state now selects electoral college delegates by direct vote of the people through their designated choice, by name, of presidential candidates.

As a professional statistician [certified Six Sigma Black Belt, retired], I made a study of the effect of popular vote vs. electoral college, using the 2016 election as raw data for the study. I compared how many states, in order of population, largest first [CA], and descending to the least [WY], were required to elect the president strictly by popular vote. Then I did a comparative study of how many states, in reverse order of population, least first [WY] to most [CA], were required to elect the president, strictly by electoral college. I was not surprised by the results, given that I was already convinced that the electoral college voting method was superior to popular vote. This study confirmed it.
I found that in popular vote, it required only 24 states to elect the president; the first 24 states in largest population, and that victor would have been Clinton. Whereas, by electoral college vote, it required 40 states in ascending population order, least to most, to elect the president [Trump]. Which system appears to you to be the more equitable, and representative of all the citizens?

Pro [PliceSheep] alleges that the Electoral College unequally weights the vote in favor of Republicans, citing four instances [1876, 1888, 2000, 2016] wherein the Electoral College disagreed with popular vote to elect the President.

The 2000 election must be withdrawn from that list because it was neither the Electoral College, nor the popular vote, that gave Bush 43 the Presidency. It was the Supreme Court, given the failure of FL to declare a definitive winner of that State. The conflict should have been resolved in the House, which would have very likely voted as SCOTUS decided, given the R advantage of numbers in the House.

Moreover, in the history of the current major political parties, 14 Democrat Presidents have been elected, while 20 Republicans have been elected. There’s the skew, and, even if the claim of E.C. partisanship were true in three cases, removing the 2000 election, there are still more Republicans elected than Democrats, even though the Democrats began with Jackson [#6], and Republicans are first elected with Lincoln [#16]. With a 10-election advantage, Democrats fall short of Republicans, even considering the few failures of the E.C in agreement with the popular vote.

I made a spelling/grammar error in one of my sentences.

Where it says "addition 20 votes"

It should say "additional 20 votes"

-->
@Death23

America really does have a lot of issues!

Given the extremely disproportionate representation in the senate (which appoints the supreme court justices), rampant gerrymandering in the house of representatives, and electoral college bullshit America's pretty much a shitocracy.

-->
@Christen

Changed for the voting and rounds. Put charectors at 15,000 as I don't want the debate to be constricted by the limit.

-->
@PoliceSheep

There should be a 2-month voting period, 5 rounds, and/or 10,000 characters per argument