Instigator / Con

RESOLVED: The USFG SHOULD BAILOUT the CRUISE LINES

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Debate details
Publication date
Last update
Category
Economics
Time for argument
Two days
Voting system
Open voting
Voting period
One week
Point system
Four points
Rating mode
Rated
Characters per argument
10,000
Required rating
1500
Contender / Pro
Open
Description
RESOLVED: The USFG SHOULD BAIL OUT the CRUISE LINE INDUSTRY
RELEVANCE: [In the wake of coronavirus], President Trump on [Mar. 13th] praised the battered cruise industry — and shut it down in the United States for a month.
In a tweet Friday, he said major operators Carnival, Royal Caribbean, Norwegian and MSC had agreed to his request that they halt outbound sailings from the United States for 30 days, effective at midnight Friday night.
********************
"At my request, effective midnight tonight, Carnival, Royal Caribbean, Norwegian, and MSC have all agreed to suspend outbound cruises for thirty days. It is a great and important industry – it will be kept that way!"
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) March 13, 2020
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“As far as the cruise line business, we’re with them all the way,” he said during a news conference. “It’s a great business. It’s a great U.S. business.”
Trump also hinted that the federal government could offer a bailout to some hard-hit travel companies.
“I can tell you it’s an industry that was very badly impacted by what’s going on with the virus, and it’s a great industry, it’s a very important industry,” he said. “And we will be helping them."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/travel/2020/03/13/trump-offers-support-cruise-lines-during-coronavirus-outbreak-while-asking-them-stop-sailing/
"On Thursday, March 12, Wells Fargo advised investors to buy shares in Carnival Cruise Lines, the competitive company that is facing a potential existential crisis as a result of the coronavirus outbreak. Carnival is “almost” too big to fail, “Wells Fargo argued,” and it will likely be wide. . . State support. “The analysts probably came up with this idea after President Trump repeatedly mentioned cruise ship support and Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin is said to have asked Congress to lend to the industry."
https://www.archyde.com/let-the-cruise-ships-sink/
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DEFINITIONS:
The USFG is "the national government of the United States, a federal republic in North America, composed of 50 states, a federal district, five major self-governing territories and several island possessions. The federal government is composed of three distinct branches: legislative, executive and judicial, whose powers are vested by the U.S. Constitution in the Congress, the president and the federal courts, respectively. The powers and duties of these branches are further defined by acts of Congress, including the creation of executive departments and courts inferior to the Supreme Court."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_government_of_the_United_States
A BAILOUT is "the provision of financial help to a corporation or country which otherwise would be on the brink of failure or bankruptcy. The term is maritime in origin and describes the act of removing water from a sinking vessel using a bucket. Some governments also have the power to participate in the insolvency process: for instance, the U.S. government intervened in the General Motors bailout of 2009–2013. A bailout can, but does not necessarily, avoid an insolvency process.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bailout
A CRUISE LINE is "a company that operates cruise ships that operate on ocean or rivers and which markets cruises to the public. Cruise lines are distinct from passenger lines which are primarily concerned with transportation of passengers. Though cruise packages provided by cruise lines vary, there are some features most have in common, such as accommodation, all meals and entertainment. They may include alcohol and shore excursions, sometimes on additional payment. The four largest CRUISE LINES are Carnival, Royal Caribbean, Norwegian, and MSC.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cruise_line
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_cruise_lines
BURDEN of PROOF
Burden of Proof is shared.
PRO must prove that a USFG coronavirus bailout for the cruise line industry is to the benefit of the majority of American citizens.
CON must prove that a USFG coronavirus bailout for the cruise line industry is not to benefit of the majority of American citizens.
PRO is requesting sincere and friendly engagement on this subject.
No trolls or kritiks, please.
- RULES --
1. Forfeit=auto loss
2. Sources may be merely linked in debate as long as citations are listed in comments
3. No new arguments in R3
4. For all relevant terms, individuals should use commonplace understandings that fit within the rational context of this resolution and debate
5. Donald Trump may be quoted where relevant but may not be cited as a reliable source for information on any subject, including Trump's own intentions or prior acts.
Round 1
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Round 2
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Round 3
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Added:
--> @Singularity
"gulp"
"Dear Leader invented social distancing!"
"gulp"
"I wish Dear Leader would kill more of us to preserve the fortunes of the wealthy! Gosh, I hope I'm next!"
"gulp"
"Dear Leader's fish tank kool-aid is the bestest kool-aid of all!"
"gulp"
Instigator
#23
Added:
Honestly I am mad he is taking this seriously though
Some experts are saying the death impact will be less than a million. Probably left unchecked less than 200000. However the last great depression killed 7 million americans, adjusted for the population increase it would kill 14 million people. Why don't you have balls and actually debate something instead of just attacking strawman in Hope's some idiot or somebody who loves playing devil's advocate accepts.
#22
Added:
--> @oromagi
Your quote is him merely saying he is hoping the virus is gone by Easter? Are you sayi g it is a bad thing if it disappears? He also mentioned a compound that is yes common in fish tank cleaners is being tested and might be useful at battling the effects of corona virus. It also might bot be useful, so what is wrong with saying it might be. It's true, it might be. Also you liberals are hypocrites. Trump cancels trips to and from Wuhan China which was a hotbed for the virus, and you all say he is racist for starting the beginning stages of social distancing. He shuts down travel with Europe and people criticize that. He tries to calm Americans to prevent panic by down playing the virus and people claim. He isn't taking it serious. Like seriously what type of retarf thinks it is bad for him to be a calming presence and take his calming words two a group of scared people as proof he is not being serious?
#21
Added:
--> @Singularity
What? Did Trump pull the plug on last week's master plan to wipe out all the elderly Christians in America for his "special" day? “Easter’s a very special day for me,” he told Fox. “Wouldn’t it be great to have all of the churches full? You’ll have packed churches all over our country. I think it would be a beautiful time.” That old orange whoremonger's just got no stick-to-it-iveness. If you think he's done a good job on this coronavirus shit, then I have some miraculous fish tank cleaner cure to sell you.
Instigator
#20
Added:
Did he really try to bail the cruise lines out or this like when he said he Hope's things are normalized by Easter and the media some how twisted him hoping for a good thing as him announcing this shut down that will result in the next great depression will end.
#19
Added:
--> @Singularity
Only cruise ship investors and executives think this oro.
You won't get an opponent who thinks we should bail out the people who are most responsible for this shit
Well Trump thought that way. The cruise line industry is big in So. Florida and Trump must have Florida in November. The trouble being that whatever Trump thinks is what FOX thinks and whatever FOX thinks compels the GOP. Unfortunately for this debate but fortunately for America, somebody finally pointed out to Trump on Thursday that the big 4 cruise lines are not US companies, don't pay US taxes, don't hire many US ciitzens.
"Trump, who has spoken out about helping the cruise lines, acknowledged the problem during a media briefing Thursday when he said he favors having cruise lines register their ships in the U.S.
“It’s very difficult to make a loan to a company when they are based in a different country,” Trump said. “But that being said, they have thousands and thousands of people that work there and, almost as importantly, that work onshore, filling these ships with goods and products.”"
Not to mention incredibly lawless, corrupt, profoundly polluting and so deep in debt that two or three of these companies may now fail, to the benefit of all.
Instigator
#18
Added:
Only cruise ship investors and executives think this oro
You won't get an opponent who thinks we should bail out the people who are most responsible for this shit
#17
Added:
--> @oromagi
I see your point. And I do believe a rubric of value needs to be applied. I would apply it on a more regional level.
If 100k jobs are affected, Nationally that is arguably a rounding error. In the two or three main ports, that is a massive employment change. I am wondering what the best way to assess this is. I see both sides of the fence.
#16
Added:
--> @DrSpy
Well, it is our money being spent. Why shouldn't our benefit be the most essential rubric? In our present emergency shouldn't the salvation of industries that benefit the majority of Americans (food farmers and makers and sellers, transportation, power, education, healthcare, etc) take precedence before industries that benefit minority interests- the floating Floridian fart-palaces of the fake tan set, for example?
Instigator
#15
Added:
--> @oromagi
I see both sides of the fence and accept your position. I like the summary "The context is defending/condemning the act of bailout for this industry rather than predicting the future results of anyone as yet unpassed bill."
Can you tell me what the evaluative rubric would be? Is this still based on the majority of American citizens? Can you soften that up a bit, maybe something like the American economy will be better off... or something to that effect. I might take it on then. Otherwise, I am happy to sit back and not interfere with the integrity of your position.
#14
Added:
POTUS today:
The legislation will also include billions of dollars for additional resources for our, really, heroic — these are incredible doctors, nurses — brave — and hospitals, as well as support for hard-hit industries such as the airline industry and the cruise ship industry, which employ tremendous amounts of people and obviously serve very important functions beyond that.
It allows us to help these great companies that need help, like Boeing, which is — you know, it had a problem and then, on top of that problem, it had the virus come in. But we’ll be helping Boeing. We’ll be helping the airlines. We’ll be helping the cruise lines. We’ll be doing a lot of things and the money will all come back to us, and it will come back to us in a very strong form.
very important functions: hospitals, airlines, cruise ships
Instigator
#13
Added:
--> @DrSpy
"Yes, I penned the https://www.debateart.com/debates/1809/covid-19-s-origins-are-manmade-it-is-not-of-pure-natural-origins, but I did that on debate.org. I do not know how it got on here. I do not have a reputation, so I am not sure what you are talking about there lol. "
The debate is what I'm talking about. A number of debaters commented on the quality of your argument. I suppose plagiarism is flattery in the imitation vein but it means your good argument did not get a chance at clash.
" A small point of order, you say you lost a debate. Your stats do not show you have lost one."
Like you, most DARTers are DDO refugees:
http://www.debate.org/debates/RESOLVED-driverless-cars-will-be-the-norm-within-the-next-20-years/
"You state "will be" is more future assertive than "is," etc.
I didn't state that although it is generally true. In ordinary English, we almost always use the present tense when talking about events due to take place, especially in the near future.
"The circle jerk is next Tuesday."
rather than
"The circle jerk will be next Tuesday."
Either form is correct but "will be" is definitely more assertive. For example, you can inflect the first form into a question:
"The circle jerk is next Tuesday?"
without suggesting any confidence about the answer but if you do the same with will
"The circle jerk will be next Tuesday?"
you assert the fact and suggest that the speaker has a scheduling problem.
So here, the present simple is is used to suggest imminence rather than the more assertive "shall be" sense. Will be suggests a higher degree of certainty about the unknowable. The context is defending/condemning the act of bailout for this industry rather than predicting the future results of any one as yet unpassed bill.
Instigator
#12
Added:
--> @KingArthur, @fauxlaw
fauxlaw, KingArthur-
I set the minimum required rating for acceptance to 1500 when I instigate. This is one of the few options I can't edit after submission.
Instigator
#11
Added:
I was thinking about taking it but I don't like the wording of "majority of Americans". If you said for the overall good maybe.
I also don't see the accept button right now.
#10
Added:
--> @Ragnar
I'm inclined to accept this debate, but I do not see an accept link to engage it. Where is it?
#9
No votes yet