Instigator / Pro
35
1557
rating
35
debates
52.86%
won
Topic
#1834

JFK assassination was most likely the result of Operation Northwoods, which was most likely the creation of those mentioned in the Venona intercepts

Status
Finished

The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.

Winner & statistics
Better arguments
15
3
Better sources
10
2
Better legibility
5
1
Better conduct
5
1

After 6 votes and with 28 points ahead, the winner is...

Nevets
Parameters
Publication date
Last updated date
Type
Standard
Number of rounds
5
Time for argument
Two weeks
Max argument characters
30,000
Voting period
One month
Point system
Multiple criterions
Voting system
Open
Contender / Con
7
1490
rating
7
debates
42.86%
won
Description

In 1979, the United States House Select Committee on Assassinations (HSCA) concluded that Kennedy was probably assassinated as a result of a conspiracy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_F._Kennedy_assassination_conspiracy_theories

"That same day, Hoover had this conversation with President Johnson:"
JOHNSON: "Have you established any more about the [Oswald] visit to the Soviet Embassy in Mexico in September?"
HOOVER: "No, there's one angle that's very confusing for this reason. We have up here the tape and the photograph of the man at the Soviet Embassy, using Oswald's name. That picture and the tape do not correspond to this man's voice, nor to his appearance. In other words, it appears that there was a second person who was at the Soviet Embassy."

With the information that someone had been impersonating Oswald, President Johnson expressed concern that the public might come to believe that Soviet leader Nikita Khrushchev and/or Cuban leader Fidel Castro was implicated in the assassination — a situation that Johnson said might lead to "... a war that [could] kill 40 million Americans in an hour". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_F._Kennedy_assassination_conspiracy_theories#Circumstantial_evidence_of_a_cover-up

Operation Northwoods was a proposed false flag operation against the Cuban government that originated within the U.S. Department of Defense (DoD) and the Joint Chiefs of Staff (JCS) of the United States government in 1962. The proposals called for the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) or other U.S. government operatives to both stage and actually commit acts of terrorism against American military and civilian targets, Blaming them on the Cuban government, and using it to justify a war against Cuba. The possibilities detailed in the document included the possible assassination of Cuban immigrants, sinking boats of Cuban refugees on the high seas, hijacking planes to be shot down or given the appearance of being shot down, blowing up a U.S. ship, and orchestrating violent terrorism in U.S. cities. The proposals were rejected by President John F. Kennedy.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods

The Venona project was a United States counterintelligence program initiated during World War II by the United States Army's Signal Intelligence Service (later absorbed by the National Security Agency), which ran from February 1, 1943, until October 1, 1980. It was intended to decrypt messages transmitted by the intelligence agencies of the Soviet Union (e.g. the NKVD, the KGB, and the GRU). Initiated when the Soviet Union was an ally of the US, the program continued during the Cold War, when it was considered an enemy.

During the 37-year duration of the Venona project, the Signal Intelligence Service decrypted and translated approximately 3,000 messages. The signals intelligence yield included discovery of the Cambridge Five espionage ring in the United Kingdom and Soviet espionage of the Manhattan Project in the U.S. (known as project Enormous / операция «Энормоз»). The espionage was undertaken to support the Soviet atomic bomb project. The Venona project remained secret for more than 15 years after it concluded. Some of the decoded Soviet messages were not declassified and published by the United States until 1995.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venona_project

Venona messages also indicated that Soviet spies worked in Washington in the State Department, Treasury, Office of Strategic Services, and even the White House.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venona_project#Breakthrough

It does need to be stated. That whilst i will be including in my argument during the debate, that this "is not" a conspiracy theory as such, but a historical thesis, it is my personal thesis. And i hope to have it either kept at unproven, or disproven.. It will be at the discretion of the voters to decide whether "unproven" results in a victory for me. But certainly "disproven" i accept will result in 100% defeat.

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@Barney

hope you like my rfd

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@Nevets
@DrSpy

One round remains. You each only took part in a single round so far.

I will not vote on this debate as I cannot dismiss my utter disdain of exclusive use of wiki as a source. It's not the only game in town. There's a reason why encyclopedia salesman is a dead breed.

Lmao@ referring to a sharpshooter badge as a "badge of honor". You have no idea how hilarious that is. You truly don't. I could explain it to you and I think you would be capable of understanding if I did, and I will later if you want to know and you ask me to, but I can't right now because I am laughing too hard.

It's a badge, not a medal.

Even if it was a medal...

Oh Jesus Christ you seriously have no idea how hilarious this is. It's like referring to a GED as a degree. I can't, I can't stop laughing. I need to go watch something sad and depressing before I actually suffocate.

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@Nevets

Fantastic topic! I look forward to reading.

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@Nevets

This is actually one of the best use of debates, to get some early peer-review in on drafts to things.

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@Barney

Yes you are correct. I have also added at the end that this is just a thesis. And in particular, my thesis. So that there is no misunderstanding.

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@Nevets

You may want to add "most likely" to the resolution. Right now someone could assert almost any other idea to deny you BoP.