I have already covered in the description what Operation Northwoods is, and what the Venona project is, and i am sure we are already aware of what the JFK assassination is. So any contentions regards to the definition of Operation Northwoods, or the venona project, i will tackle in round 2 if the situation arises.
Now, i will begin this debate, with one of the greatest speeches of all time. Most conspiracy theorists regard it as "the speech that got kennedy killed. Though i believe it is more officially referred to as "the Rasmussen minute".
"We are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy that relies primarily on covert means for expanding its sphere of influence--on infiltration instead of invasion, on subversion instead of elections, on intimidation instead of free choice, on guerrillas by night instead of armies by day.“
It is a system which has conscripted vast human and material resources into the building of a tightly knit, highly efficient machine that combines military, diplomatic, intelligence, economic, scientific and political operations.
“Its preparations are concealed, not published. Its mistakes are buried, not headlined. Its dissenters are silenced, not praised. No expenditure is questioned, no rumor is printed, no secret is revealed."
Now i do not believe that this even requires a source. I am sure we have all listened to the speech on youtube.
And likewise, i do not think it could be considered contentious to assume that JFK was talking about his coldwar opponents.
The same coldwar opponents that somehow managed to lead to the destruction of Germany, when the Nazi party picked up on that Russian anti-semitic piece "The protocols of the elders of Zion", as revealed below.
The Protocols of the Elders of Zion is a
fabricated antisemitic text purporting to describe a
Jewish plan for global domination. The hoax, which was shown to be plagiarized from several earlier sources, some not antisemitic in nature, was first published in
Russia in 1903, translated into multiple languages, and disseminated internationally in the early part of the 20th century.
And those Protocols, as revealed below, would be carried by the Nazi party as a main political narrative and manifesto, right up through the German democratic system and in to power.
The Nazis sometimes used the Protocols as propaganda against Jews; it was assigned by some German teachers, as if factual, to be read by German schoolchildren after the Nazis came to power in 1933
In fact, the USSR could even use the fact that Hitler chose to invade Russia, as justification for themselves counter attacking and conquering most of europe.
The USSR even had a secret-pact with Germany that was revealed at the Nuremberg trials, and the plan was for both Germany and Russia to begin annexing european countries, as revealed below.
It was known at the Nuremberg trials the existence of the secret protocol of the German–Soviet pact regarding the planned divisions of these territories
However the USSR always waited for the bad guys, Germany, to make the first move, as below.
The Soviet Union signed a non-aggression pact with Nazi Germany on 23 August 1939. In addition to stipulations of non-aggression, the treaty included a secret protocol that divided territories of Romania, Poland, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, and Finland into German and Soviet Union "spheres of influence", anticipating potential "territorial and political rearrangements" of these countries.In October and November 1940, German-Soviet talks about the potential of joining the Axis took place in Berlin, nothing came from the talks since Hitler's Ideological goal was Lebensraum in the East.
Germany invaded Poland on 1 September 1939 starting World War II, Stalin waited until September 17th before launching his own invasion of Poland.
And then Hitler decided it would be a good idea to invade Russia, below
On 22 June 1941, Hitler launched an invasion of the Soviet Union. Stalin was confident that the total Allied war machine would eventually stop Germany, and with Lend Lease from the West, the Soviets stopped the Wehrmacht some 30 kilometers (or 18.6 miles) from Moscow. Over the next four years, the Soviet Union repulsed Axis offensives, such as at the Battle of Stalingrad and the Battle of Kursk, and pressed forward to victory in large Soviet offensives, such as the Vistula–Oder Offensive.
And this gave the Russians the ticket to side with USA and Britain, and decimate europe, by taking the war direct to Germany, as revealed below.
Stalin met with Winston Churchill and Franklin D. Roosevelt at the Tehran Conference and began to discuss a two-front war against Germany and the future of Europe after the war. Berlin finally fell in April 1945.
The communist hold on huge parts of europe lasted up until the fall of the Berlin wall in 1989
was a guarded concrete barrier that physically and ideologically divided Berlin from 1961 to 1989.
And yes, the USSR were huge anti-semites, as well as a huge influence in the modern concept of Zionism, which has led to the rather controversial topic today concerning Israel and Palestine.
Even though the persecutions provided the impetus for mass emigration, there were other relevant factors that can account for the Jews' migration. After the first years of large emigration from Russia, positive feedback from the emigrants in the U.S. encouraged further emigration. Indeed, more than two million Jews fled Russia between 1880 and 1920. While a large majority emigrated to the United States, some turned to Zionism. In 1882, members of Bilu and Hovevei Zion made what came to be known the First Aliyah to Palestine, then a part of the Ottoman Empire.
So, i think it is fair to conclude that what has been described above, could be described as a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy that relies primarily on covert means for expanding its sphere of influence--on infiltration instead of invasion, on subversion instead of elections, on intimidation instead of free choice, on guerrillas by night instead of armies by day.
So now on to Lee Harvey Oswald, who he was, and his connections with Russia. Below.
Lee Harvey Oswald was an American Marxist and former U.S. Marine who assassinated United States President John F. Kennedy on November 22, 1963.
Lee Harvey Oswald defected to Russia in 1959.
Oswald was honorably released from active duty in the Marine Corps into the reserve and defected to the Soviet Union in October 1959. He lived in Minsk until June 1962, when he returned to the United States with his Russian wife, Marina, and eventually settled in Dallas.
Oswald when he left school, joined the marines, as stated below
Oswald enlisted in the United States Marine Corps on October 24, 1956, just a week after his seventeenth birthday.
Oswald was not a nobody in the Marines either. He was once awarded a badge of honour for becoming a sharpshooter, which would make him a pretty proficient assassin, as revealed below.
Like all marines, Oswald was trained and tested in shooting. In December 1956, he scored 212, which was slightly above the requirements for the designation of sharpshooter.
Though Oswald did display a tendency in the marines to be a little temperamental regarding what he uses his gun for, as shown below
Oswald was later punished for a third incident: while he was on a night-time sentry duty in the Philippines, he inexplicably fired his rifle into the jungle.
It may even be fair to ask, how on earth did Oswald actually get away with crimes such as firing his gun indiscriminately, at will, and against orders? Would you, the reader, expect if you were in the army, and you just suddenly had an impulse to lift your gun and shoot at random, would you expect to still be in the army tomorrow?
Now, for some reason, just before Oswalds discharge from the Army, they taught him Russian. Revealed below.
on February 25, 1959, he was invited to take a Marine proficiency exam in written and spoken Russian.
Then soon after being given Russian language lessons, he was discharged. Below
On September 11, 1959, he received a hardship discharge from active service, claiming his mother needed care. He was placed on the United States Marine Corps Reserve
Then within a few months he defected to Russia, having learnt to speak Russian, and using his military wage to support himself. Below
Oswald traveled to the Soviet Union just before he turned 20 in October 1959; he had planned the trip well in advance by teaching himself Russian and saving $1,500 of his Marine Corps salary (equivalent to $10,500 in 2019).
Whilst in Soviet union, he applied to become a Soviet citizen, citing the fact that he is a "Communist" as his reasoning, though his application was initially refused, as revealed below.
Almost immediately after arriving, Oswald informed his Intourist guide of his desire to become a Soviet citizen. When asked why by the various Soviet officials he encountered — all of whom, by Oswald's account, found his wish incomprehensible — he said that he was a communist, and gave what he described in his diary as "vauge answers about 'Great Soviet Union'". On October 21, the day his visa was due to expire, he was told that his citizenship application had been refused, and that he had to leave the Soviet Union that evening.
So Oswald took the extreme measures of trying to kill himself. Below.
Distraught, Oswald inflicted a minor but bloody wound to his left wrist in his hotel room bathtub soon before his Intourist guide was due to arrive to escort him from the country, according to his diary because he wished to kill himself in a way that would shock her. Delaying Oswald's departure because of his self-inflicted injury, the Soviets kept him in a Moscow hospital under psychiatric observation until October 28, 1959.
Now, if what has been stated up until now, does not give the impression something bigger is going on here, then what comes next, certainly should.
Oswald made Russian officials aware of his Marine corpse training and his shooting skills. Below
According to Oswald, he met with four more Soviet officials that same day, who asked if he wanted to return to the United States. Oswald replied by insisting that he wanted to live in the Soviet Union as a Soviet national. When pressed for identification papers, he provided his Marine Corps discharge papers.
Next, Oswald entered the US embassy in Russia, and gave up his US passport, declaring that he was becoming a Soviet citizen, and implied that he was giving up US military secrets to the Soviets. Below
He told the U.S. embassy interviewing officer, Richard Edward Snyder, that "he had been a radar operator in the Marine Corps and that he had voluntarily stated to unnamed Soviet officials that as a Soviet citizen he would make known to them such information concerning the Marine Corps and his specialty as he possessed. He intimated that he might know something of special interest."
The US, based upon this, changed the terminology on his discharge papers, to that of undesirable. Below
(Such statements led to Oswald's hardship/honorable military reserve discharge being changed to undesirable.)[
Now whilst living in Russia. Oswald was not treated as a nobody. He was sent out to work, producing, amongst other things, military and space electronics. Below
Though Oswald had wanted to attend Moscow State University, he was sent to Minsk to work as a lathe operator at the Gorizont Electronics Factory, which produced radios, televisions, and military and space electronics.
And his Russian language teacher was none other, than Belarus's future head of state. Below
Stanislau Shushkevich, who later became independent Belarus's first head of state, was also engaged by Gorizont at the time, and was assigned to teach Oswald Russian.
Oswald received a government subsidiary on top of his regular factory wage, and fully furnished studio apartment in a prestigious building, and was better off than that of an average working class Russian, below
Oswald received a government-subsidized, fully furnished studio apartment in a prestigious building and an additional supplement to his factory pay, which allowed him to have a comfortable standard of living by working-class Soviet standards,
Next, Oswald became disillusioned with Russian life style, and returned to the US embassy to state his wishes to return to the US, and bargain a deal where-by all defection charges against him will be dropped. Below
Oswald wrote in his diary in January 1961: "I am starting to reconsider my desire about staying. The work is drab, the money I get has nowhere to be spent. No nightclubs or bowling alleys, no places of recreation except the trade union dances. I have had enough." Shortly afterwards, Oswald (who had never formally renounced his U.S. citizenship) wrote to the Embassy of the United States, Moscow requesting return of his American passport, and proposing to return to the U.S. if any charges against him would be dropped
Finally, Oswald got married, had a child, and was granted permission to return to the US. Below
In March 1961, Oswald met Marina Prusakova (b. 1941), a 19-year-old pharmacology student; they married less than six weeks later in April.The Oswalds' first child, June, was born on February 15, 1962. On May 24, 1962, Oswald and Marina applied at the U.S. Embassy in Moscow for documents that enabled her to immigrate to the U.S. On June 1, the U.S. Embassy gave Oswald a repatriation loan of $435.71. Oswald, Marina, and their infant daughter left for the United States, where they received less attention from the press than Oswald expected.
Once back in the USA Oswald continued with his Communism. So much so, an anti-communist group tried to get his wife Marina away from him. Below
Although the Russian émigrés eventually abandoned Marina when she made no sign of leaving her husband
Oswald was then sacked from a job, and among the list of criticisms to justifying his sacking, was his reading of Russian publications. Below
and that he once saw Oswald reading a Russian-language publication. Oswald was fired almost 6 months later, on the first week of April 1963.
Oswald then began purchasing guns, below
In March 1963, Oswald used the alias "A. Hidell" to make a mail-order purchase of a secondhand 6.5 mm caliber Carcano rifle for $29.95. He also purchased a .38 Smith & Wesson Model 10 revolver by the same method.
He then attempted to assassinate anti-communist and Venona intercept accuser, and activist, and retired U.S. Major General
Edwin Walker on April 10, 1963. Below
The Warren Commission concluded that Oswald attempted to kill retired U.S. Major General Edwin Walker on April 10, 1963
And yes, Edwin Walker was one of those that accused the KGB of infiltrating US government. Below
Walker enjoyed enthusiastic crowds all over the United States. His message of anti-communism was popular. He also promoted the McCarthyist belief that communists were inside the United States government.
Marina Oswald testified against her husband, and confessed she knew Oswald attempted to assassinate Edwin Walker, and why. Below
Marina Oswald testified that her husband told her that he traveled by bus to General Walker's house and shot at Walker with his rifle. She said that Oswald considered Walker to be the leader of a "fascist organization."
Now it is time to show where "Cuba" comes in to Oswalds politics. Below
On May 26, Oswald wrote to the New York City headquarters of the pro-Castro Fair Play for Cuba Committee, proposing to rent "a small office at my own expense for the purpose of forming a FPCC branch here in New Orleans". Three days later, the FPCC responded to Oswald's letter advising against opening a New Orleans office "at least not ... at the very beginning.
Then his hands off Cuba, campaign. Below
On May 29, Oswald ordered the following items from a local printer: 500 application forms, 300 membership cards, and 1,000 leaflets with the heading, "Hands Off Cuba"
Next, Oswald attempted to join the anti-Castro organization (DRE), but was rejected by the owner, who believed Oswald to be an infiltrator, and when he later saw Oswald on the street handing out pro-Castro material, they both got arrested for fighting. Below
According to anti-Castro militant Carlos Bringuier, Oswald visited him on August 5 and 6 at a store he owned in New Orleans. Bringuier was the New Orleans delegate for the anti-Castro organization Directorio Revolucionario Estudantil (DRE). Bringuier would later tell the Warren Commission that he believed Oswald's visits were an attempt by Oswald to infiltrate his group. On August 9, Oswald turned up in downtown New Orleans handing out pro-Castro leaflets. Bringuier confronted Oswald, claiming he was tipped off about Oswald's leafleting by a friend. A scuffle ensued and Oswald, Bringuier, and two of Bringuier's friends were arrested for disturbing the peace.
Next, for some reason, Oswald travelled to Mexico, and planned to go from there, to Cuba, then Russia. Below
He arrived in Mexico City on September 27, where he applied for a transit visa at the Cuban Embassy, claiming he wanted to visit Cuba on his way to the Soviet Union. The Cuban embassy officials insisted Oswald would need Soviet approval, but he was unable to get prompt co-operation from the Soviet embassy. CIA document notes Oswald spoke "terrible hardly recognizable Russian" during his meetings with Cuban and Soviet officials.
He then had at least some dealings with KGB agents. Before having his Cuban visa denied. for reasons stated below.
After five days of shuttling between consulates — and including a heated argument with an official at the Cuban consulate, impassioned pleas to KGB agents, and at least some CIA scrutiny — Oswald was told by a Cuban consular officer that he was disinclined to approve the visa, saying "a person like [Oswald] in place of aiding the Cuban Revolution, was doing it harm."
Now we are getting to the nitty gritty. Below, it is revealed that Oswald wrote to the Soviet embassy, stating ""Had I been able to reach the Soviet Embassy in
Havana, as planned, the embassy there would have had time to complete our business."
eleven days before the assassination of President Kennedy, Oswald wrote to the Soviet embassy in Washington, D.C., saying, "Had I been able to reach the Soviet Embassy in Havana, as planned, the embassy there would have had time to complete our business."
What business i ask you? According to a CIA document released in 2017, it is possible Oswald was trying to get the necessary documents from the embassies to make a quick escape to the Soviet Union after the assassination. Below
According to a CIA document released in 2017, it is possible Oswald was trying to get the necessary documents from the embassies to make a quick escape to the Soviet Union after the assassination.
Now if it is not already apparent that Lee Harvey Oswald is not quite the nobody and loan nutter that history attempts to paint him, and actually appears to be above the law, he walked in to a police station and handed a note to reception, threatening to blow up the police station should they not stop harassing Marina. Below
Oswald left a note that, according to the receptionist, read: "Let this be a warning. I will blow up the FBI and the Dallas Police Department if you don't stop bothering my wife" [signed] "Lee Harvey Oswald".
Instead of sending out a warrant for Oswalds arrest. The note got destroyed under orders from superiors, and what the note truelly said is now a matter of speculation. Below
Agent Hosty said that he destroyed Oswald's note on orders from his superior, Gordon Shanklin, after Oswald was named the suspect in the Kennedy assassination.
And this brings us to the assassination of JFK.
Now as i revealed in the description, In 1979, the (HSCA) concluded that Kennedy was probably assassinated as a result of a conspiracy. Below
In 1979, the United States House Select Committee on Assassinations (HSCA) concluded that Kennedy was probably assassinated as a result of a conspiracy.
Now despite the fact that Hoover admitted that Dallas police would not have had enough evidence to convict Oswald, had he stood trial. Below
FBI Director Hoover wrote a memo detailing that the Dallas Police would not have had enough evidence against Oswald without the FBI's information.
Also, according to CIA intercepts, there had been someone making phone-calls to the Russian and Cuban embassies, impersonating Oswald. Below
Top government and intelligence officials were also finding that, according to CIA intercepts, someone had impersonated Oswald in phone calls and visits made to the Soviet and Cuban embassies in Mexico City several weeks before the assassination.
Over the next 40 years, it was said to be one of the CIA's most closely guarded secrets, concerning the case. Below
Over the next 40 years this became one of the CIA’s most closely guarded secrets on the Oswald case.
According to hoover, photographic evidence and expert voice analysis suggested the person that visited and phoned the Russian and Cuban embassies, was not Lee Harvey Oswald. Below
The Central Intelligence Agency advised that on October 1st, 1963, an extremely sensitive source had reported that an individual identifying himself as Lee Oswald contacted the Soviet Embassy in Mexico City inquiring as to any messages. Special agents of this Bureau, who have conversed with Oswald in Dallas, Texas, have observed photographs of the individual referred to above and have listened to a recording of his voice. These special agents are of the opinion that the referred-to individual was not Lee Harvey Oswald.
Now, considering the information that was handed to President Johnson, and his assertions that if the public were too think that Cuba, or Russia, was behind this, it could kill 40 million US citizens in 1 hour, he might think he is doing the country a service by actually making sure all blame gets put on the shoulders of one loan nutter. Below
With the information that someone had been impersonating Oswald, President Johnson expressed concern that the public might come to believe that Soviet leader Nikita Khrushchev and/or Cuban leader Fidel Castro was implicated in the assassination — a situation that Johnson said might lead to "... a war that [could] kill 40 million Americans in an hour". Johnson relayed his concern to both Chief Justice Earl Warren and Senator Richard Russell, telling them that they could "serve America" by joining the commission Johnson had established to investigate the assassination, which would later become known unofficially as the Warren Commission
It would seem that the Commission from the start was set up to make sure speculation about Oswalds motives were cut off. Below
Katzenbach wrote: "Speculation about Oswald’s motivation ought to be cut off
And now, given what we might suspect from prior reading, the next statement from Katzenbach would certainly not ring true. Below
He also wrote: "The public must be satisfied that Oswald was the assassin; that he did not have confederates who are still at large; and that the evidence was such that he would have been convicted at trial"
Now i do acknowledge, when an official report acknowledges that an assassination of a president was probably the result of a conspiracy, it is a field day for conspiracy theorists to attribute whatever they like. Including Allegations of witness tampering, intimidation, and foul play. Allegations of evidence suppression, tampering, and fabrication. Allegations of multiple gunmen. Allegations of other conspirators. Unidentified witnesses. And other conspiracy theories.
However the conspiracy theories that i feel cannot be debunked, are as follows: Cuban exiles
The House Select Committee on Assassinations wrote: that it is possible that anti-Castro Cuban groups could have possibly been involved. Below
The House Select Committee on Assassinations wrote: "The committee believes, on the basis of the evidence available to it, that anti-Castro Cuban groups, as groups, were not involved in the assassination of President Kennedy, but that the available evidence does not preclude the possibility that individual members may have been involved"
Also many Cubans from the 1959 revolution, blamed Kennedy for his failure to topple Castro. Below
With the 1959 Cuban Revolution that brought Fidel Castro to power, many Cubans left Cuba to live in the United States. Many of these exiles hoped to overthrow Castro and return to Cuba. Their hopes were dashed with the failed Bay of Pigs Invasion in 1961, and many blamed President Kennedy for the failure
Soviet government conspiracy
The Warren Commission reported that they found no evidence that the Soviet Union was involved in the assassination of President Kennedy.
However i would argue that there being "no evidence" of Soviet involvement, being rather irrational, given the endless connections with Oswald. I would also say that this is a conclusion drawn up to stop the Cuban Missile Crisis from re-escalating. A crisis which threatened nuclear war. Below
That's all for now.
hope you like my rfd
One round remains. You each only took part in a single round so far.
I will not vote on this debate as I cannot dismiss my utter disdain of exclusive use of wiki as a source. It's not the only game in town. There's a reason why encyclopedia salesman is a dead breed.
Lmao@ referring to a sharpshooter badge as a "badge of honor". You have no idea how hilarious that is. You truly don't. I could explain it to you and I think you would be capable of understanding if I did, and I will later if you want to know and you ask me to, but I can't right now because I am laughing too hard.
It's a badge, not a medal.
Even if it was a medal...
Oh Jesus Christ you seriously have no idea how hilarious this is. It's like referring to a GED as a degree. I can't, I can't stop laughing. I need to go watch something sad and depressing before I actually suffocate.
Fantastic topic! I look forward to reading.
This is actually one of the best use of debates, to get some early peer-review in on drafts to things.
Yes you are correct. I have also added at the end that this is just a thesis. And in particular, my thesis. So that there is no misunderstanding.
You may want to add "most likely" to the resolution. Right now someone could assert almost any other idea to deny you BoP.