Instigator / Pro
K-Rino makes better rap songs than Chris Webby
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Contender / Con
Originally this was supposed to be "K-Rino is a better rapper than Webby" but RM insisted that we change the context of the debate to give him the apparent advantage. I was reluctant but ultimately willing to accommodate this because either way he cannot escape the inevitable truth. He may try to ignore lyricism almost entirely and try to make this about sound first and foremost but including the word "song" does not change the fact that we are talking about rap. Thus the context of the debate really hasn't changed at all and lyrical ability is still just as relevant as what RM will argue makes a better "rap song" but not necessarily rapping skills themselves.
K-Rino has songs that are meaningful, songs that are intended just to display raw lyricism and songs that sound good as well. Most of his content is intended to be lyrical first and foremost whereas Webby is less lyrically intricate but focuses on his sound a lot more. Despite this, K-Rino still rivals him in sound and vastly outstrips his ability to be lyrical.
Meaningful rap songs
Lyricism/boasting rap songs
rap songs of either category that sound particularly good
Prop = Proposition = K-Rino makes better rap songs than Chris Webby
Opp = Opposition = Chris Webby makes better rap songs than K-Rino
If I was Con I could say they were equal and Kritik the entire concept of the debate but I don't want to play dirty because Webby deserves good representation and also because this isn't the place for cowardice considering what a gem I'm defending.
Originally this was supposed to be "K-Rino is a better rapper than Webby" but RM insisted that we change the context of the debate to give him the apparent advantage. I was reluctant but ultimately willing to accommodate this because either way he cannot escape the inevitable truth.
- Prop R1
K-Rino is an inferior rapper to Chris Webby in my opinion and as is, Webby is top of the food chain in the rap game but I cannot objectively prove that. You see, there's so much to what makes a 'rapper' overall superior that the only type of thing you can prove in a 'superior rapper' type debate is something like when Prop said he's superior to Vinnie Paz as Prop isn't even a professional rapper to begin with and the difference, even objectively, isn't close.
In a debate like that I can 'prove things' about the overall performance of one against the other but with K-Rino vs Webby the difference is extremely difficult to conceive. Neither is a mumble-rapper, both are highly lyrical but when I say 'highly' that is indeed quite vague here. K-Rino is to lyricism itself what Tech N9ne is to flow. K-Rino has dedicated his entire life to being the most lyrically in-depth rapper in the game with second place being someone like Apathy although you can argue he's joint second with someone like Devlin or IDK, the point is this isn't too relevant. Rino has dedicated himself to being someone who would sacrifice everything, even on a lifestyle and career level to be the most in-depth lyricist in the game. Here is what he sacrifices:
- Popularity amongst fans: Not just because of poor quality song production and irritating voice tone but because his lyrics are so complex that the average human needs to Google words, have a dictionary at hand or need to have been so highly educated in not just English Language but many detailed mythologies to catch the references, puns etc. That Rino is using. So, while Rino is someone Prop and Opp would agree is the unparalleled lyricist of the rap game, he's sacrificed popularity so extremely by being the severe lyricist he is in the first place.
- Popularity amongst other music (and thus rap) artists: It's difficult to prove what someone has lost when they never had it to begin with but K-Rino has had a severe opportunity-cost in his venture to being the most lyrical rapper there is. Prop will likely show you a video of Rino off-mic (so out of rap-character) telling you how humble he is, how he doesn't really hate mumble rappers and all of that but Webby is far stronger-standing socially in the rap game despite being outspoken in his hatred of right-wing politicians (as well as left-wing ones if they're too corrupt for his liking) on top of completely humiliating and even being anti-trans at times towards mumble rappers for a diss (I don't approve of how rude he was to Lil Xan in their beef, even if Xan was a trans woman or ends up coming out of the closet as one, I don't consider that as remotely something to diss someone for being). Now, this is a HUGE reason why I didn't want to take up the debate about who is a better 'rapper' because both have conducted themselves atrociously in raps, making explicit death threats and violent references as well as being severely anti-LGBT and this is even more of an issue for Webby as, unlike Rino, he is left-wing-leaning (Rino is an Alex-Jones type politically) and therefore Webby should care about LGBT and I know for a fact that he made many fans furious with how he dug into Lil Xan as even mumble rap haters who had fallen in love with Webby over his pro-Bernie, anti-corruption, anti-right-wing raps suddenly defended the mumble rapper against Webby's trans-hating lines among other issues like him frequently using the term 'pussy' as an insult that entails cowardice and 'bitch' as an insult to imply feminine-type-abrasive-personality in the one he is insulting both which are anti-feminist. Webby has issues as a rapper but this is incredible; despite having made so many 'wrong moves', Webby has an extremely tight-knit circle of allied artists he has not only helped write their raps when they collab with him (none explicitly admit it but it's so blatant to me that he teaches them his secrets which I will get to later) and on top of that, he uses their clout and skills and lets THEM teach HIM techniques and has severely improved in rapping after partnering with Tech N9ne, Vinnie Paz, Rittz, Futuristic and Apathy (if not others too). Rino struggles because not only does he have this whole 'I'm better than all rappers' Schtick but he seems to not make it clear enough to other artists that is doesn't mean all the stuff he says in songs. Webby actually means a lot of the threatening and insulting things he says in songs but gets away with it by picking his fights carefully and making it crystal clear what he stands for and who he, therefore, isn't threatening or insulting.
Those two things support Webby but also, combined with what I said before them, explains why I'm not able to 'prove' that Webby is a superior rapper to K-Rino even though he actually is in my eyes. Being a better rapper is based on so many things that it's near impossible to explain why the 'sacrifice all for depth and rhyme-scheme intricacy' style of K-Rino is really 'worse' than Webby's more all-rounder-high-skill style where he is jack of all trades master of only making 'songs sound amazingly pleasing to the ear' and even then isn't the best at it (Russ, Ryan Caraveo, Bugzy Malone and even many mumble Rappers such as their founder Lil Wayne and the revolutionary Rilès who is trying to make mumble rap less Hedonistic and/or Nihilistic are masters of ear-pleasing melody and delivery).
Webby and Hopsin are the only two rappers I know of who are so good at being 'bad' at nothing in rap but are quite literally 'masters' of no particular thing in rap as such other than how they played their careers. Nicki Minaj is extremely similar except she is 'bad' at depth of lyrics but compensates with quality of puns and above-good delivery. These are, and I think always will be, the three top 'rappers' in my ranking system because of how insurmountable they are if you take into consideration all the ways a rapper can be 'flawed' and what they have achieved in ALL aspects of being not just a rap-music-maker but a phenomenal industry-shaking career-rapper. I don't care if you laugh at my opinions on Minaj nor if you are shocked that I rank them as the three best. I am not debating about that here but I also know that I can't 'prove' they are the best beyond a casual chat-style debate as it requires you to think extremely deep and agree with me on many subjective things about what matters and how good they are in all categories as well as the importance of being a threat (you will NEVER EVER find anyone have beef with any of those 3 and last and Eminem is fourth place to me so just look at recent times what happened to MGK when he fucked with Em, hint: his career's dead and he is making worse raps than he ever has implying a link between a lack of his brainpower being correlated to the beef).
Making better rap songs than someone else is only one part of being a 'better rapper' and it is here that Webby completely, utterly, indisputably puts Rino in the fucking dirt. K-Rino admittedly doesn't give a damn about this, he makes it explicit from day one to present day as a rapper that he couldn't care less how pleasing his style of delivery, nor melody are to the eardrum. He specialises in lyrics-heavy rap and is basically a mechanics-of-poetry specialist that loves flexing that and just wants to do that until he 'dies' as a professional rapper and be remembered as the best lyricist and nothing else. K-Rino is a phenomenal lyricist, you actually will need to slow down, replay his songs and have a dictionary at hand to truly get into K-Rino's songs. This is, as Pro will agree, absolutely astonishing and awe-inspiring. K-Rino's command on the English language is unparalleled in the rap game, I have never ever heard of nor seen someone who understand poetry on the level of K-Rino in the entire rap game but here is why: People like Chris Webby have the brain, talent, work ethic and simply know enough about rap and poetry to equal Rino in the depth of lyricism and poetic-mechanics-flexing but they know what that comes at the price of. Imagine why you listen to rap and when in your daily routine you listen to it:
5 reasons why people listen to music at work
1. Relaxation: “It calms me down”, “eases my stress”Music at work can contribute to relaxation by channeling your stress and negative emotions, and can remind you of not being at work. It can also provide a mini-break from being mentally active and allow you rest and recover. In this sense, music can create a sense of well-being in offices by putting employees in a good mood.2. Concentration: “It improves my ability to focus on what I am working on”Music can aid your concentration by suppressing distractions around the office. Some people experience these effects when they do simpler tasks, but it could also help when doing more complex work. You can control your soundscape in the office and replace external interruptions with sounds of your choice (more on this in reason 4).3. Emotional management: “It helps me to remain positive”Music can be inspirational; it can encourage thoughts and motivate you. It can act as a stress reliever and be a‘fellow sufferer’ in a public space, where it might not be appropriate to act out all your frustrations. It can also provide a sense of company when your working space is too quiet or empty.4. It blocks out distractions: “It helps me concentrate, especially when someone else is in the office, or talking on the phone, or having a meeting nearby”Being able to block out distractions can be a way to cope with stress, as it gives you more control over your environment. Headphones in particular help to improve concentration in two ways.
- They block out other sounds. Employees often use headphones to block out surrounding noise from the environment or colleagues.
- They act as a ‘do not disturb’ sign. Employees also use headphones to send a visual signal that they are busy and not to be interrupted by others.5. It creates variation and helps you think about something else: “If music was not my distraction, then something unproductive would be, such as fiddling with papers or gazing out of the window”Music can provide you with a diversion so you don’t engage in other distracting behaviours. It’s a strategy to manage internal interruptions like daydreams or thoughts that could make you lose your flow. It might also stop you from doing other unproductive things like browsing the internet or chatting with colleagues.The history of music and workingListening to music while working is by no means a new innovation. Songs, for a long time helped people synchronise their movements and made the day go quicker. In the 1930s, recorded music was often used in factories to improve productivity and reduce boredom and fatigue.Today, technology has made it easier to listen to your own music at work. Many employees have access to music through mp3 players, smartphones and via the internet, and can make choices about what to listen to that previously would not have been possible.Does it always work?Academic research shows that listening to music at work can help improve your mood, relax you and make you feel happier. However, it can have its drawbacks, too. Loud music can irritate your co-workers and headphones can isolate you from your team, which is not always a good thing.Generally, it’s most beneficial when you have control over what you are listening to. If music is forced upon people, it can be irritating and annoying, and we know from research that office noise can have severe negative effects on employee health, well-being and productivity.But when employees can have control over when, where and what they listen to, music can clearly bring about real benefits to individual employees, and ultimately to the company.Sources:Haake, A.B. (2011) Individual music listening in workplace settings: an exploratory survey of offices in the UK. Musicae Scientiae, 15 (1)Haake, A.B. (2010). Music listening in UK offices: Balancing internal needs and external considerations. Doctoral thesis. Music Department, University of Sheffield, UK.
Why Do We Listen to Music?Musical preference changes with age. Mature listeners are often baffled by the musical choices of younger people - what is inspiring and uplifting to one is a terrible cacophony to another. Similarly, teenagers rarely “get” the tunes their parents find enjoyable. Musical taste is non-objective, and therefore very difficult to study scientifically up to the point that some say that there is no sense in arguing about musical preference. The teenager may never understand why mom loves the song “White room” and the mom may never be able to appreciate the aesthetic value of “We Dem Boyz”.What is behind this disconnect? Music listening is a powerful way to support well-being, irrespective of age. However, according to a study published this July by Jenny Groarke and Michael Hogan from the National University of Ireland, younger and older people listen to music for different reasons and experience benefits to well-being through different mechanisms.In the study, researchers sought to explain why younger and older adults listen to music, and how the reported reasons for music listening are connected to well-being. The participants were 25 young adults (18-30 yrs) and 19 older adults (60-75 yrs). They investigated music listening habits through Interactive Management, a technique that comprises facilitated group discussions. The method contained three phases: 1) idea generation 2) voting, and 3) structural modeling.The first phase, idea generation, entailed posing a simple question “Why do you listen to music?” to both participant groups. The participants first independently generated answers to this question. The answers were then pooled for the second step which involved the participants voting for five ideas they felt were most significant for supporting well-being. In the third phase, the participants examined overarching structures connecting the reasons for music listening and well-being outcomes with the help of special software.Why We Listen to Music - SyncProject.coIn the first idea generation phase of the method, participants came up with several answers to the question of why they listen to music. In the younger subjects, reasons for music listening included things like stress relief, bonding, and personal meaning. In older subjects, reasons included meditative effects, reducing loneliness, and novelty. The reasons for music listening were then pooled into categories and after the voting phase, the most popular categories could be compared. The younger participants voted social connection, affect regulation and reminiscence as most important factors that connect music listening to well-being. The older participants voted personal meaning, therapeutic benefits and affect regulation as most important.The results indicate that irrespective of age, people believe that music listening has an effect on their well-being. However, the mechanisms through which beneficial effects on well-being are achieved seem to vary between different age groups and includes emotional experiences, reminiscence, experience of meaning and transcendence through music listening, among others.Music supports well-being in a multitude of ways. It can be used for stress relief, as part of social bonding as well as for emotional regulation. As we age, our goals and needs change, as well as own sense of what constitutes well-being. As a result, the ways in which music can support well-being also change. In future studies, it will be interesting to explore what individual needs for well-being are in different contexts, how age influences them and how music could specifically be used to respond to these needs, throughout life.BY MARKO AHTISAARI AND KETKI KARANAMREFERENCES:Groarke, J. M., & Hogan, M. J. (2015). Enhancing wellbeing: An emerging model of the adaptive functions of music listening. Psychology of Music, 44(4), 769–791. doi:10.1177/0305735615591844
What you are going to find is that, if you are honest with yourself, when you listen to K-Rino's songs that I supply you (some of which Con supplied) you are going to experience, increased stress, increased agitation as the anger isn't the "I feel your rage bro/sis" vibe, it's the 'feel bad, the world is corrupt and I want to rip everyone's throat out' vibe. You will find that if you listen to it while working, it's impossible to not get distracted by because of the mechanical sound of his beats and voice (really it's shitty quality but we can say he's going for a 'mechanical sound' if you like). When not listening to it as you work or do chores, you will find that listening to K-Rino songs as a 'main song' is hell on Earth to put yourself through. The sound, unpleasant, the lyrics aggravating, the flow so choppy and zig-zaggy with no repetition to it that you never can 'settle in' or be 'at ease' in the remotest fashion. You will find it makes you alert, anxious, angry, displeased and furious. Even at his angriest, brutally vicious rap-mode webby soothes and pleases the ear and soul.
PLEASE IF YOU HAVE SPOTIFY PREMIUM, iTUNES, YOUTUBE PREMIUM ETC. LISTEN TO IT ON THAT. YOU WILL FIND THAT K-RINO HAS ZERO, YES ZERO, DIFFERENCE BECAUSE HE DOESN'T USE PROPER SOFTWARE OR RECORDING EQUIPMENT. HE'S LAZY AND UNDERFUNDED AND WEBBY, EVEN WHEN HE WAS STARTING UP DID HIS LEVEL BEST TO USE THE FREE AND/OR CHEAP SOFTWARE HE HAD AT HAND TO MAKE THE BEST BEATS HE COULD.
Let's go with the categories (and songs) Pro provides us with first. I will even match his amounts.
Meaningful Rap Songs
Lyricism/boasting rap songs
Lyricism/boasting rap songs
rap songs of either (Meaningful or Lyrical/boasting) category that sound particularly good
okay, okay just one extra one here:
Now let's add some
None, he never has made a soothing song.
None, he never makes happy songs.
BOOYA BOY DON'T FUCK WITH ME
paying homage to other rappers
Let's leave it there and see what Pro brings.
>Reported Vote: Ramshutu // Mod action: Not Removed
>Reported Vote: Ramshutu // Mod action: Not Removed
>Points Awarded: 5 points to Con for arguments, S/G, and conduct
>Reason for Decision: Full forfeit by Pro for conduct. All cons arguments went unrefuted, and he used a wider breadth of sources (YouTube And
Other website links).
Other website links).
>Reason for Mod Action: This debate is a full forfeit. FF debates are not moderated unless the voter voted for the conceding side. This did not occur, so this vote is not actionable.
Will add his 'raw thoughts' adn stuff into meaningful raps in Rond 2, my mistake for ot completing that list.
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Full forfeit by Pro for conduct. All cons arguments went unrefuted, and he used a wider breadth of sources (YouTube And
Other website links).
Other website links).