Instigator / Pro
Points: 0

As a businessman, Donald Trump distinguished himself with endless bankruptcies

Finished

The voting period has ended

After 7 votes the winner is ...
Ragnar
Debate details
Publication date
Last update
Category
Politics
Time for argument
Two days
Voting system
Open voting
Voting period
Two weeks
Point system
Four points
Rating mode
Rated
Characters per argument
10,000
Contender / Con
Points: 49
Description
Given the opportunity, Trump might also bankrupt the United States.
Round 1
Forfeited
Published:
My opponent has submitted the following argument via the comment section:
I put nothing past Donald Trump. It wouldn't surprise me if he declares bankruptcy invalidating all US debt.

Trump only cares about himself. If he can profit from a bankruptcy, he will do it.

Rebuttals:
"It wouldn't surprise me if he declares bankruptcy invalidating all US debt."
Irrelevant. As much as many would praise such a policy of debt abolition in these troubled times.

"Trump only cares about himself"
Irrelevant. I don't need to prove he cares about anything, as that is not the topic at hand. This is a red herring at best [1].

"If he can profit from a bankruptcy, he will do it."
Irrelevant. What he would hypothetically do, has no baring on what distinguished him as a businessman.


My Case:
No personal bankruptcies
The topic refers to "himself," meaning the "endless bankruptcies" should be impacting him. If endlessly bankrupt, it would be self evident by him living on the street or couch surfing, instead of living at at the single most well known address in the world of 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.

The fact is he has never been bankrupted. The lowest his wealth has ever been estimated to fall was to $150 million [2]; when if any of us had 1% of that, we would never have to work another day in our lives.

Comparatively, many other billionaires have become truly bankrupt [3].

Few businesses bankruptcies
The Trump Group was taken over by Donald Trump in 1971, which he lead until 2017. In those 46 years, only six out of about 500 of the companies he owns filed for bankruptcy [4] . Were it even one per year it might be defining, as is, that's an abysmally low rate of bankruptcy for businesses. In fact of new businesses, only 25% survive even 15 years [5]. This means as a businessman he is literally distinguished for the opposite of what the resolution claims.


Sources:
  1. https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Red_herring
  2. https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2011/04/weve-been-trying-figure-out-how-much-trump-worth-20-years/349875/
  3. https://www.businessinsider.com/rich-billionaires-who-declared-bankruptcy-2019-7
  4. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Trump_Organization
  5. https://www.investopedia.com/financial-edge/1010/top-6-reasons-new-businesses-fail.aspx
Round 2
Forfeited
Published:
As previously stated: "as a businessman [Donald Trump] is literally distinguished for the opposite of what the resolution claims."
Added:
ramdatt is a crybaby who can't string a sentence without insulting someone. What irony
#63
Added:
--> @AKmath
Yes.
Is he right? yes. Is he convincing? no.
#62
Added:
Guys let me tell you what he's actually probably doing.
Trump has bankrupted his fair share of businesses, but let us see how this happened. Let's first note the nature of these businesses. Some of his businesses/brands that went under are Trump Steak, Trump Water, Trump Signature Collection clothing and watches (which somewhat still exists today), and a big one was the Taj Mahal. Now we must ask why? Not why did they go under but why were they started? Why would a real-estate mogul want to start a clothing line, a steak brand, and a water bottling brand? He knows he can't compete with others in the sector, so why did he start them. He started them with THE PURPOSE OF BANKRUPTING THEM. Why? Well, he used all this business debt so he could write of taxes, this is the main way how he paid literally nothing in taxes, through writing off tons of business debt. He then used amortization to then not only pay off debt but actually gain money through other investments. I believe he used the amortization "loophole" (not really it's widely used by wealthy people) to greatly reduce his taxes. This is why I believe he is so weary to release his tax returns, he doesn't want people to see this. He didn't bankrupt business because he was a bad businessman, these businesses were simply pawns in his game. Now as for the Taj Mahal, well yeah he did actually fail there. He failed to realize that as more people began going to Atlantic City compared to Vegas, people were looking for a more Borgata/Golden Nugget type experience compared to the Taj Mahal which was often considered the cheapest and worst casino there. Unfortunately for him, he realized the shifting wants of the gamblers too late and decided to close it down to cut losses. So I guess this is just my two cents. :)
#61
Added:
--> @User_2006
As I previously explained (https://www.debateart.com/debates/1895/comment_links/25680), some users are False Flag Trolls. Such as someone who claims to be trying to make Trump look bad, by putting time and effort into making Trump haters look mentally deficient (such as while starting over a dozen debates, unable to figure out how to press the submit argument button on this website).
An easy example of this kind of thing was my opponent on "Israel has no right to exist," whom I easily outed as really just an anti-Palestinian, trying to sow disdain for actual supporters of Palestinian independence (to whom he was badly impersonating). https://www.debateart.com/debates/1755/israel-has-no-right-to-exist
The main place I see this behavior is the religion forum, to which atheists pretend to be the most vile and offensive members of various religions, and vice versa, plus other variants.
In popular culture, actor Jussie Smollett could not find enough racism so hired a couple Nigerians to pretend lynch him.
Contender
#60
Added:
--> @ramdatt
no, YOU go somewhere else. I will probably stop after this. This is a debating website where I actually debate, and this is not a site where you sh**post. If you gotta make arguments, make them clear and convincing. You got the right idea, but any stalk can win a debate with you.
#59
Added:
User_2006,
Do me a favor...Disappear.
I have zero interest I you.
Bother someone else
Stop mentioning me by name on this site!
Instigator
#58
Added:
--> @ramdatt
"User_2006 is really dense. He doesn't grasp the disaster facing our country."
I know these things too, and while you are trying to make people aware, at least make them aware. You are making about 0 effort of doing anything.
#57
Added:
--> @ramdatt
Poor User_2006 is obsessed with winning debates. I don't give a rats arse.
User_2006 is really dense. He doesn't grasp the disaster facing our country.. Instead all he does is talk nonsense.
OK BOOMER
#56
Added:
User_2006,
What part of the United States is going into a Great Depression because of the buffoon in the White House don't you understand /
Instigator
#55
Added:
User_2006,
what part of there are 27,000 dead American because of the buffoon in the White House don't you understand ?
Instigator
#54
Added:
Poor User_2006 is obsessed with winning debates. I don't give a rats arse.
User_2006 is really dense. He doesn't grasp the disaster facing our country.. Instead all he does is talk nonsense.
Instigator
#53
Added:
I am sorry for being *rude*, but ramdatt is basically a debate point farm. You can farm everything from him, votes, wins, ranking increases... consider he doesn't give any effort into anything except in the comments. This guy is getting a silver medal while presenting no considerable evidence. Whatever he posts, using any source will win, and no, posting "go away trump hater" for every argument just gives you the conduct point, spoonfed to your own face. Then he will rage and shout trump-discriminating slurs to everyone at the point of swearing. Then you will get 7 points added to your bank.
#52
Added:
Ragnar, did you know that 42 is a special number today ?
it was the number Jackie Robinson wore when he broke the color barrier o April 15, 1947
Instigator
#51
Added:
Ragnar,
How does 42 compare with 27,000 dead Americans ?
Instigator
#50
Added:
Ragnar, why stop at only 42 ?
You are De Fuhrer of this site.
Instigator
#49
#7
Criterion Pro Tie Con Points
Better arguments 3 points
Better sources 2 points
Better spelling and grammar 1 point
Better conduct 1 point
Reason:
CON offered a solid argument in the face of full forfeit. Nice.
#6
Criterion Pro Tie Con Points
Better arguments 3 points
Better sources 2 points
Better spelling and grammar 1 point
Better conduct 1 point
Reason:
Pro didn't do anything, and thus he doesn't deserve anything. Con did everything, and thus he deserves the win.
#5
Criterion Pro Tie Con Points
Better arguments 3 points
Better sources 2 points
Better spelling and grammar 1 point
Better conduct 1 point
Reason:
Full forfeit
#4
Criterion Pro Tie Con Points
Better arguments 3 points
Better sources 2 points
Better spelling and grammar 1 point
Better conduct 1 point
Reason:
FF ⠀
#3
Criterion Pro Tie Con Points
Better arguments 3 points
Better sources 2 points
Better spelling and grammar 1 point
Better conduct 1 point
Reason:
full forfeit
#2
Criterion Pro Tie Con Points
Better arguments 3 points
Better sources 2 points
Better spelling and grammar 1 point
Better conduct 1 point
Reason:
Full Forfeit.
#1
Criterion Pro Tie Con Points
Better arguments 3 points
Better sources 2 points
Better spelling and grammar 1 point
Better conduct 1 point
Reason:
Argument: Con not only skillfully refuted the arguments by Pro made in comments section, he offered additional argument above and beyond the scope of the debate. By comparison, it appears Con though the debate should be argued in comments. Con wins by forfeit, but by so much more.
Sources: Ditto for Con as above. points to Con by more than forfeit
S&G. Con takes points.
Conduct: Con debated, Pro abstained. points to Con