Instigator / Pro

Ancient aliens is pseudo bunk

Debating

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Debate details
Publication date
Last update
Category
History
Time for argument
Two weeks
Voting system
Open voting
Voting period
One month
Point system
Four points
Rating mode
Rated
Characters per argument
30,000
Required rating
1
Contender / Con
Description
My opponent can argue for Baked Beanz. (though this is not the debate topic, so would likely lose the debate if did so)
All i ask is for an honest debate.
Errors that remain unacknowledged after being pointed out become construed as lies.
Also i will probably use wikipedia as a foundation to launch a debate.
I may use other sources later on, if required.
Round 1
Published:

I will begin this debate, by announcing, that given the vastness of our universe, and our reality, i would be shocked if alien life did not indeed exist.
However, believing that alien life likely does exist, is not the same thing as believing that there is conclusive evidence that alien life has visited earth.


Ancient Aliens is an American television series that premiered on April 20, 2010, on the History channel. Produced by Prometheus Entertainment in a documentary style, the program presents hypotheses of ancient astronauts and proposes that historical texts, archaeology, and legends contain evidence of past human-extraterrestrial contact.  The show has been widely criticized by historianscosmologistsarchaeologists and other scientific circles for presenting and promoting pseudosciencepseudohistory and pseudoarchaeology.
The series started with a TV special of the same name that aired on March 8, 2009, on the History channel. Seasons 1–3 aired on the same channel until 2011. From season 4 to the middle of season 7, the series aired on H2. On April 10, 2015, episode premieres returned to History.
Season 14 premiered on May 31, 2019 and concluded on November 29, 2019. Season 15 premiered on January 24, 2020.

So we can see from the above, the programme is critisized by historians, cosmologists and archaeologists, and other scientists.

Criticisms include

 "far-fetched," "hugely speculative," and "expound[ing] wildly on theories suggesting that astronauts wandered the Earth freely in ancient times."

The show is widely regarded as "pseudo-science" and "pseudo-history".

 and have been criticized as pseudoscience and pseudohistory.

Among those highly skeptical of the show, is "Forbes".

Forbes.com contributor Brad Lockwood criticized Ancient Aliens as an example of the History Channel's channel drift towards "programs devoted to monsters, aliens, and conspiracies," commenting that, "Ancient Aliens defies all ability to suspend disbelief for the sake of entertainment." Forbes.com staff writer Alex Knapp also criticized the series and cited archaeologist Keith Fitzpatrick-Matthews' rebuke of the History Channel for "treating (Ancient Aliens) nonsense as though it were fact."

Also, Smithsonian, was highly critical of the show, and in particular, one claim made by the show, that the aliens exterminated the dinosaurs to make way for humans

Smithsonian.com science writer Brian Switek was extremely critical of the series, particularly an episode that suggested "aliens exterminated dinosaurs to make way for our species." He characterized the show as "some of the most noxious sludge in television’s bottomless chum bucket." Switek wrote that the show employs the Gish gallop technique to overwhelm the viewer with many "fictions and distortions."
Another criticism of the show, would that they do not offer a fair and unbiased opinion, and do not allow persons with opposing view points on their show.

For example, they contacted an archaeologist, and asked him to appear on their show, and he agreed. But when they learnt that he was going to voice an opposing opinion, they removed his invite.

Others have called attention to a paucity of opposing viewpoints. Kenneth Feder, Professor of Archaeology at Central Connecticut State University and author of Frauds, Myths, and Mysteries: Science and Pseudoscience in Archaeology, has said that he was approached by Ancient Aliens producers regarding his potential participation. "My response was, I'd be happy to be on your show, but you should know that I think that the ancient astronaut hypothesis is execrable bullshit," he said in an interview. "I haven't heard back from them, rather remarkably. So, I guess maybe they're not interested in the other point of view."

We can clearly see here, below, the rebuttals of Smithsonian

The History Channel presents self-appointed challengers of science who take on the idea that aliens caused the extinction of non-avian dinosaurs

And the rebuttals from Forbes

What Archaeologists Really Think About Ancient Aliens, Lost Colonies, And Fingerprints Of The Gods
Probably one of the best and most indepth debunking of ancient aliens, comes from a man named Chris White.
I am however reluctant to use him as a source in this debate, as he always concludes his critiques with Jesus being the only true way.

So i will leave a link for Chris White, and quickly skip over him, as i would actually likely debate against Chris White regarding other matters.

So instead of using Chris White, i will instead head over to rational Wiki.

According to ancient alien theorists, extraterrestrials with superior knowledge of science and engineering landed on Earth thousands of years ago, sharing their expertise with early civilizations and forever changing the course of human history. But how did this concept develop, and is there any evidence to support it?

If you watch the ancient alien documentary, you will see the ancient alien team credit aliens with toolmaking. Apparently there is no evidence of early humans having this ability.
However as rational wiki points out, there is evidence of tool-making on planet earth dating back 2.6 million years

flint knapping, sharpening relatively straight and strong bits of wood to the point of making spears, etc. The history of stone tools has been traced back for 2.6 million years.

And is rational wikis claim supported? Well we do have the "Khormusan Industry".

Khormusan industry was a Paleolithic archeological industry in Egypt and Sudan dated at 42,000 to 18,000 BP.

But there is no evidence that the Khormusans had the ability for intergalactic travel.

Khormusans developed tools not only from stone but also from animal bones and hematite. They also developed small arrow heads resembling those of Native Americans

We also have the Acheulean industry, which was making hand-axes 1.76 million years ago

Saint-Acheul, is an archaeological industry of stone tool manufacture characterized by distinctive oval and pear-shaped "hand-axes" 
And even this, was based upon the earlier Oldowan industry

 It is thought that Acheulean technologies first developed about 1.76 million years ago, derived from the more primitive Oldowan technology
And yes, the Oldowan tool making industry dates back to 2.6 million years ago

The Oldowan (or Mode I) was a widespread stone tool archaeological industry (style) in prehistory. These early tools were simple, usually made with one or a few flakes chipped off with another stone. Oldowan tools were used during the Lower Paleolithic period, 2.6 million years ago 

This is supported by the Britanicca encyclopedia

Stone tool industry, any of several assemblages of artifacts displaying humanity’s earliest technology, beginning more than 2 million years ago.

Now, it is hard to attribute some of this type of tool-making to aliens, when even chimpanzees have been seen to observed conducting tool-making

 It's hard to trace the history of wooden tools because they rot and don't fossilize, but chimpanzees have been observed making wooden tools and weapons, so human tool use probably didn't require any sudden mental increase or other revelation.
And indeed, it is early hominins that are credited with the Oldowan industry

Oldowan tools were used during the Lower Paleolithic period, 2.6 million years ago up until at least 1.7 million years ago, by ancient Hominins (early humans)
They are referred to as "Homo Habilis".

It is thought that Acheulean technologies first developed about 1.76 million years ago, derived from the more primitive Oldowan technology associated with Homo habilis.
Rational wiki continues to produce some good rational thinking.
That being, basically evidence shows, we evolved, building upon our last invention.

 We captured fire, and eventually not only tamed it but learned to produce and control it.

And step by step....

We domesticated plants and animals, simple step by simple step.
We slowly learned basic hygiene

And drawings on cave-walls was most likely our earliest form of literature, from which we expanded, step by step

We developed means of written communication, from what was probably the work of braggers on cave walls, through simple pictographs, to abstract symbolic representation of spoken languages, enabling us to share more and more of what we have learned about our planet and our universe, more rapidly and more effectively with every improvement.

Smoke signals, were probably the earliest form of cell phone

from smoke signals, to telegraph lines, 

Quite simply, by the mere fact we were using tools, is proof that even early humans knew, they could manipulate the world.

Now, i would like to highlight i certain series that was made.
Season 1 (2010) - 3

This episode proposes that extraterrestrials have a mission plan for Earth and mankind, and cites as evidence, Sumerian tablets that allegedly describe the Anunnaki as a race of creatures that came to Earth to mine gold; the purpose of cattle mutilations; the mile-long "band of holes" near Pisco, Peru; Egyptian hieroglyphs that are said to depict hybrid creatures that are part man/part animal; and crystal skulls and crop circles that are said to contain messages from aliens.



So let us go to the "sumerian clay tablets".
But let us begin with just going to "clay tablets" in general. To begin with.

clay tablets  were used as a writing medium, especially for writing in cuneiform, throughout the Bronze Age and well into the Iron Age.

So we see that there is nothing "alien" in nature about clay tablets.

Clay tablets are generally used for writing communication during the period between 9000bc and 3000bc

 These initially very small clay tokens were continually used all the way from the pre-historic Mesopotamia period, 9000 BCE, to the start of the historic period around 3000 BCE, when the use of writing for recording was widely adopted

Now, it just so happens that one of our creation myths, comes from one of those tablets. And incidentally enough, it is actually one of our more modern tablets, dated only 1600bc

The earliest record of a Sumerian creation myth, called The Eridu Genesis by historian Thorkild Jacobsen, is found on a single fragmentary tablet excavated in Nippur by the Expedition of the University of Pennsylvania in 1893, and first recognized by Arno Poebel in 1912. It is written in the Sumerian language and dated to around 1600 BCE


And it was the Sumerian clay tablets which Erich von Daniken, during this series, jumped on.

The Sumerian clay tablets were "allegedly" translated by Zecharia Sitchin.

Zecharia Sitchin (July 11, 1920 – October 9, 2010) was an author of books proposing an explanation for human origins involving ancient astronauts. Sitchin attributed the creation of the ancient Sumerian culture to the Anunnaki, which he stated was a race of extraterrestrials from a planet beyond Neptune called Nibiru. He asserted that Sumerian mythology suggests that this hypothetical planet of Nibiru is in an elongated, 3,600-year-long elliptical orbit around the sun.

Now, Zecharia Sitchin claimed to have translated the Sumerian tablets and concluded that there is a 12th planet with alien life called "Nibiru" and the inhabitants of Nibiru are "the annunaki".

According to Sitchin's interpretation of Mesopotamian iconography and symbolism, outlined in his 1976 book The 12th Planet and its sequels, there is an undiscovered planet beyond Neptune that follows a long, elliptical orbit, reaching the inner solar system roughly every 3,600 years. This planet is called Nibiru 
Now Sitchin has concluded from his translating the texts, that "the annunaki arrived on planet earth 450,000 years ago, and that they were "gold hunters".

Anunnaki in Sumerian myth, who Sitchin states are called the Nephilim in Genesis. He wrote that they evolved after Nibiru entered the solar system, and they first arrived on Earth probably 450,000 years ago, looking for minerals, especially gold

However according to Sitchin, there was an annunaki mutiny, and the minors began refusing to work in the gold mines anymore.
To solve this, the annunaki employed the scientist Enki to make a slave race known as humans, to work in the mines, and instead allow the annunaki to become Gods

According to Sitchin, Enki (the Sumerian god of water and human culture) suggested that to relieve the Anunnaki, who had mutinied over their dissatisfaction with their working conditions, that primitive workers (Homo sapiens) be created by genetic engineering as slaves to replace them in the gold mines by crossing extraterrestrial genes with those of Homo erectus.
According to Sitchin, the annunaki then knighted certain humans and made them "kings" and those kings would act as intermediates between annunaki Gods, and human slaves.

According to Sitchin, ancient inscriptions report that the human civilization in SumerMesopotamia, was set up under the guidance of these "gods", and human kingship was inaugurated to provide intermediaries between mankind and the Anunnaki
Now i personally have read all Sitchins accounts from start to finish. And i can "assure you" Sitchin father elaborates that the Annunaki themselves are just a slave race to a higher race, that have been trading with the annunaki. In return for weapons and technology, the annunaki gave them the gold that Nibiru had in abundence, and the higher race used this gold to cure their atmospheric problems that was threatening their survival. Also the Annunaki's gods would consume the gold, as apparently gold contains certain consumable properties.
All this led to Nibiru running out of gold, and this made anunnakis gods very angry, and they began attacking Nibiru with nuclear and biological weapons, which encouraged the anuunaki to look farther afield for gold, with which to appease their gods.

You can read from start to finish Zacharia Sitchins story right now, here, though it may take you a few days.


Now, once we have watched that. Let us not simply believe this. Let us look farther.

Sitchin has came in for some major criticism

New York Times reporter Corey Kilgannon has noted that despite academic dismissal of his work, Sitchin has "a devoted following of readers".
Criticism of Sitchin's work falls primarily into three categories: translations and interpretations of ancient texts, astronomical and scientific observations, and literalism of myth.

Now, a major criticism of Sitchin, is that he is not the only person qualified to translate the Sumerian tablets, and no-one else agrees with his translations.
Though, back in the days when Sitchin did so, it was a specialist subject. Though the interpretations are now open to the wider public

When Sitchin wrote his books, only specialists could read the Sumerian language. However, sources such as the 2006 book Sumerian Lexicon[ have made the language more accessible to non-experts.
One critic of Sitchin, is Prof. Ronald H Fritze

author of the book Invented Knowledge: False History, Fake Science and Pseudo-religions, mentions the example of Sitchin's claim that the Sumerian sign DIĜIR means "pure ones of the blazing rockets", adding that "Sitchin's assignment of meanings to ancient words is tendentious and frequently strained." Fritze also commented on Sitchin's methodology, writing that "When critics have checked Sitchin's references, they have found that he frequently quotes out of context or truncates his quotes in a way that distorts evidence in order to prove his contentions. Evidence is presented selectively and contradictory evidence is ignored."

Fritze accuses Sitchin of being wrong about the Sumerian tablets revealing a 12th planet.
He states that the Sumerian tablets only knew of five planets.

Sitchin bases his arguments on his personal interpretations of pre-Nubian and Sumerian texts, and the seal VA 243. Sitchin wrote that these ancient civilizations knew of a twelfth planet, when in fact they only knew five.

There is also a critique from Roger W. Wescott, Professor of Anthropology and Linguistics at Drew University, Madison, New Jersey

Sitchin's linguistics seems at least as amateurish as his anthropology, biology, and astronomy. On p. 370, for example, he maintains that "all the ancient languages ... including early Chinese ... stemmed from one primeval source -- Sumerian".

Now, i personally would like to highlight Sitchins lack of credentials.
Sitchin has a degree in economics obtained at London university

He received a degree in economics from the University of London,

However, that is pretty much it.
He has no degree in cuneiform.
Translating cuneiform, is something "he taught himself".

While working as an executive for a shipping company, he taught himself Sumerian cuneiform and visited several archaeological sites.

Now let us look at his astronomical and scientific observations.

Whilst Sitchin does support scientific theory in certain regards, his accounts differ, especially the timing.

these interplanetary collisions were supposed to have taken place within the span of human existence, whereas for Sitchin these occurred during the early stages of planetary formation,

Also Sitchins DNA examples are criticised

Sitchin in "the case of Adam's alien genes" states that 223 genes found by the Human Genome Sequencing Consortium are without the required predecessors on the genomic evolutionary tree. Later researchers have argued that the conclusion from the Human Genome Sequencing Consortium cannot be drawn due to a lack of a comprehensive gene database for comparison.

But here, is what i consider the most damning evidence "against" Sitchin.
In order for Sitchins Sumerian clay tablet hypothesis to work, he has to ignore all other clay tablets written in Sumeria.

Because other clay tablets are quite certain about what planet "MARDUK" represents, and that is Jupiter. And MARDUK was the word that Sitchins translated as Anunnaki.

He uses the Epic of Creation Enuma Elish as the foundation for his cosmogony, identifying the young god Marduk, who overthrows the older regime of gods and creates the Earth, as the unknown "Twelfth Planet". In order to do this he interprets the Babylonian theogony as a factual account of the birth of the other "eleven" planets. The Babylonian names for the planets are established beyond a shadow of a doubt—Ishtar was the deity of Venus, Nergal of Mars, and Marduk of Jupiter—and confirmed by hundreds of astronomical/astrological tables and treatises on clay tablets and papyri from the Hellenistic period. Sitchin merrily ignores all this and assigns unwarranted planetary identities to the gods mentioned in the theogony.

Now, another criticism i have of Sitchin, is when reading his translations, he amazingly uses only contemporary scientific understanding in his explanations as to how Alulah managed to travel in a rocket from Nibiru to planet earth. 
Apparently Alulah used a water-cannon to get through the meteor belt.

His explanations sound far too primitive, tbh.

And i am glad my thoughts are shared.

What Sitchin sees is what he needs for his hypothesis. So figure 15 on page 40 is radiation therapy, and figure 71 on page 136 is a god inside a rocket-shaped chamber. If these are gods, why are they stuck with our cheap B movie technology of rockets, microphones, space-suits, and radiation therapy? If they are gods, then why can't they have some really divine technology such as intradimensional worm-hole travel, antigravity, starlight propulsion, or black hole bounce rematerializations?






Published:
I'll make my argument in round 2. I will be banned shortly and so have no time to make this argument. I still intend to finish this debate even with a one round disadvantage
Round 2
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Round 3
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Round 4
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Round 5
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Not published yet
Added:
--> @Singularity
sorry to see you have unfortunately been banned.
I shall hold back on responding to give you more time.
I have the debate set on two weeks for arguments anyway.
Instigator
#10
Added:
I agree, it is a moot point. As i typed that before he posted first round. I was responding to you because you called me a smart ss. So im glad you figured out what i ment.
#9
Added:
Angel would count as alien here. I am sure pro is aware of that. The point is not to speculate as to where the beings came from whether it is heaven, other intelligent planets, other dimensions or from time travel with life forms so advanced that they appeared like they came from another planet. "Ancient aliens" is a history channel tv show being hinted at referencing in the title. All of this is kinda a moot point anyway, because pro already stated they will accept their opponent's interpretation even if the interpretation is as ridiculous as baked beans
Contender
#8
Added:
The context makes it obvious IF you know what the definition is. Most of the time using a word with multiple definitions has to be clarified. In one context of alien, say, they travel in outer space, that makes it clear that its most likely not human. But doesnt answer if its an angel or assumed lifeform
#7
Added:
It doesn't depend on the definition. the definition depends on the contexrt which is obvious
Contender
#6
Added:
Depending on the definition of aliens. People from other countries to angels fit that definition
#5
Added:
--> @Melcharaz
Why do we have smart asses coming on debates pretending they don't know the instigator is talking about extra terrestrial beings from outer space
Contender
#4
Added:
So the meaning you are using for aliens is what?
#3
Added:
--> @Melcharaz
My style is to give my opponents as much scope as possible.
Though this is being abused a little, and sometimes my opponents are using the scope i give them, to attempt to try to argue about something completely irrelevant.
For this reason, i would advise sticking to "ancient aliens" as described in the famous history channel documentary "ancient aliens".
As it is mostly the claims from the show i will be debunking.
Though if you wish to provide your own evidence outwith the show, i will not prevent you from doing so, and i will also attempt to engage with you upon other related issues regards to ancient aliens.
But the general definition of ancient aliens would be as defined by the documentary.
Claims that the pyramids were built by Aliens et cetera.
Or claims that much of the stories in the OT, could be actually depicting Aliens.
What i will not be discussing is "modern day alien accounts".
Modern day alien accounts are not related to claims made by the ancient aliens documentary team.
But, i am flexible within reason.
Instigator
#2
Added:
What definition are you using for aliens?
#1
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