Instigator / Pro
Points: 10

Robert Bruce's son, William De Brus, is on the Falkirk rolls, fighting for the English, which probably means, Robert De Brus (Robert Bruce) was on side with the English


The participant who scores the most points is declared the winner

The voting period will end in:
Debate details
Publication date
Last update
Time for argument
Two weeks
Voting system
Open voting
Voting period
One month
Point system
Four points
Rating mode
Characters per argument
Required rating
Contender / Con
Points: 25
No information
Round 1
Apologies. I made an error.
This subject i found quite emotional given how close it is to me.
I took defeat on the other thread quite personally, due to certain reasons.

When i saw the discussion was continuing in the comment section i felt compelled to race in a research on the spot at the speed of light.
And i have made an error.

I am now removing myself completely from this subject.

Congratulations to oromagi on his victory.
And also congratulations on this victory.

Thank you
PRO concedes

CON thanks PRO for the early concession.  That is excellent conduct.
Round 2
Thanks Oromagi.

I must stick by my own rules that errors must be acknowledged or be considered lies.

And i certainly made a blooper. Before the game even started.
Round 3


The lord the Bruce to Glaskow raid
And send about him quhill he haid
Off his freyndis a gret menyhe,
And syne to Scone in hy raid he
And wes maid king but langer let,
And in the kingis stole wes set
As in that tyme wes the maner.
Bot off thar nobleis, gret affer,
Thar service na thar realt 
Ye sall her na thing now for me,
Owtane that he off the barnage
That thidder come tok homage
And syne went our all the land
Frendis and frendschip purchesand
To maynteym that he had begunnyn.
He wyst or all the land war wonnyn
He suld fynd full hard barganyng
With him that wes off Ingland king,
For thar wes nane off lyff sa fell
Sa pautener na sa cruell.
And quhen to King Edward wes tauld
How at the Bruys that wes sa bauld
Had brocht the Cumyn till ending,
And how he syne had maid him king,
Owt off his wyt he went weill ner,
And callit till him Schir Amer
The Vallang that wes wys and wycht
And off his hand a worthy knycht,
And bad him men off armys ta
And in hy till Scotland ga,
And byrn and slay and rais dragoun,
And hycht all Fyfe in warysoun
Till him that mycht other ta or sla
Robert the Bruce that wes his fa.
Schir Aymer did as he him bad,
Gret chevalry with him he had,
With him wes Philip the Mowbray,
And Ingram the Umfravill perfay
That wes bath wys and averty
And full off gret chevalry,
And off Scotland the maist party
Thai had intill thar cumpany,
For yheit then mekill off the land
Wes intill Inglismennys hand.
Till Perth then went thai in a rout,
That then wes wallyt all about
With feile towris rycht hey bataillyt
To defend giff it war assaylit,
Tharin dwellyt Schyr Amery
With all his gret chevalry.
The King Robert wyst he wes thar
And quhatkyn chyftanys with him war
And assemblyt all his mengye.
He had feyle off full gret bounte
Bot thar fayis war may then thai
Be fyften hunder as Ik herd say,
The-quhether he had thar at that ned
Full feill that war douchty off deid
And barounys that war bauld as bar.
Twa erlis alsua with him war,
Off Levynax and Atholl war thai.
Edward the Bruce wes thar alsua,
Thomas Randell and Hew de le Hay
And Schyr David the Berclay Fresale,
Somerveile, and Inchmertyn.
James off Douglas thar wes syne
That yheyt than wes bot litill off mycht,
And othir fele folk forsye in fycht
Als was gude Cristell of Setoun
And Robert Boyd of greit renoun,
And uther feill of mekill micht
Bot I can nocht tell quhat thai hycht.

-John Barbour
Round 4
Nevets hasn't been on in 10 days which I call a gd shame.  His Saddam Hussein debate is even on the front page these days.

extend all arguments.
Round 5
PRO has conceded with explanation.

CON thanks PRO for the excellent conduct.

CON recommends that VOTERS award ARGUMENTS to CON for concession
CON recommends that VOTERS award CONDUCT to PRO for concession

I understand i have lost this debate.
I am not going to try and change definitions.
And even in the event someone votes for me, i shall make sure the vote gets removed and oromagi is to win.
I dont want my rating to fall any lower just now, as i am new to the site and have not accumulated many points yet. Therefore i shall play it out. Oromagi will have to be patient to receive his victory.
But oromagi "has" won.
--> @Melcharaz
There is no debate going to take place.
I have roped myself in to arguing about something i do not even believe.
I have no opinion on Robert de Bruce, other than that he was a Catholic Norman, that waged war in Scotland, and was just one small part of the Norman conquests that seeked self interests above his station, and conned and conived to get it.
I do not even look upon myself as Scottish. I look upon myself as British, and have great admiration for the Norse. I am part Norse myself. So not anti-norman... However i kind of spat the dummy when i got defeated on the last thread.
I had hoped that the thread would just fizzle out in to a draw. As defeat would be a sore one.
But i got defeated, so i grinned and bared it and congratulated my opponent and hoped the thread would just fall.
However when the debate began in the comment section i had this overwhelming urge to go right through the Falkirk rolls and find something on this Robert Bruce. What i found was what i already knew. And that is his Norman relative.
However in haste i wringfully attributed this relative as being his son, forgetting William is not Willam, and William was son of Robert Bruce of annandale, But Robert Bruce of annandale is also the Great Great grandfather of the Robert the Bruce in question.
So in haste, i boobed, because i forgot to stay composed, and do the research first.
I usually research everything before writing.
But there will be no redifining.
No debate.
The instant i pressed publish i realised i had made an error
Since yall both went over this information recently, there should be no need for redefining unless there is new information or arguements added.
Criterion Pro Tie Con Points
Better arguments 3 points
Better sources 2 points
Better spelling and grammar 1 point
Better conduct 1 point
Criterion Pro Tie Con Points
Better arguments 3 points
Better sources 2 points
Better spelling and grammar 1 point
Better conduct 1 point
Criterion Pro Tie Con Points
Better arguments 3 points
Better sources 2 points
Better spelling and grammar 1 point
Better conduct 1 point
Con is the only one who provided any argument here. Pro conceded.
Con also used text evidence, which is why he gets the point on sources.
Criterion Pro Tie Con Points
Better arguments 3 points
Better sources 2 points
Better spelling and grammar 1 point
Better conduct 1 point
Con suggested that voters assign conduct to pro, so I will. Pro conceded the debate though, so he loses arguments.