Instigator / Pro
4
1417
rating
158
debates
32.59%
won
Topic
#2264

TOURNAMENT R1: seldiora vs supadudz

Status
Finished

The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.

Winner & statistics
Better arguments
0
3
Better sources
2
2
Better legibility
1
1
Better conduct
1
1

After 1 vote and with 3 points ahead, the winner is...

Vader
Judges
whiteflame's avatar
whiteflame
27 debates / 191 votes
Voted
Parameters
Publication date
Last updated date
Type
Standard
Number of rounds
4
Time for argument
Three days
Max argument characters
30,000
Voting period
One week
Point system
Multiple criterions
Voting system
Judges
Contender / Con
7
1540
rating
30
debates
56.67%
won
Description

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1bhNN3TEx1wJmf_Tq2yevvEvAhyIFOmKJYkBN_DLumOA/edit

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@seldiora

Haven’t seen someone do something like that in written debates, but I have seen it live. Essentially, the goal is to point out that the system itself is so incredibly flawed that it needs to be challenged to the point of breaking. That’s actually taking it quite a bit further than you’ve suggested, and yes, it leans hard into arguments that fraud is a necessary challenge to an already broken system. However, it’s hard to apply here because you would essentially have to argue that the current system is breaking down because of charter schools, rather than that you will overwhelm the system somehow.

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@whiteflame

re-reading the debate, I thought of something interesting. Is it possible for me to manipulate the resolution in any way? Some kind of "failure is the mother of success" kind of thing? Where I prove because we are finding all this fraud and getting rid of it, improves quality of education?

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@seldiora

Sometimes, you really just have to dig in on a point you made your strongest. There's a lot more ink on the quality argument from you than their is from SupaDudz, and I think enough of what you put down in that first round is still going strong by the end that you really should have been leveraging it. It's not perfect, and you certainly wouldn't get the weight you started out with, but if you had emphasized how important the quality is compared with other points, you could theoretically have won on that point alone.

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@whiteflame

the reasoning why I stopped focusing on quality is that even with all the evidence combined, overall I found that schools were equal in quality, charter or not. I felt like it couldn't defeat how the fraud outweighed the effect of public schools, and so I didn't bother stressing it too much, especially since supadudz presented evidence without reasoning. In the end, I suppose I could've bluffed my way through since Supadudz would've had to put in so much more effort to defeat the positive points.

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@seldiora

Good debate! Wish you luck in your future debates

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@BearMan

Yep, RFD will likely go up today.

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@whiteflame

Vote

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@seldiora

Argument should come tonight. I thank you for a great round

that fraud argument might be the end of me... lol, good luck Supadudz

The fact that this was made in under 3 hours is so mindnumbing to me. Bleh.

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@seldiora

Damn that R2 came fast!

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@BearMan

okay

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@Intelligence_06

The best debater is the one who beats all others in one word. 30,000 is just so people who like long arguments have no boundaries.

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@BearMan

I guess you trust us. Thank you. I am off to composing my own arguments. I think if I have a hard time filling 12000, then a 30,000 will just be next to no limits for me.

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@Intelligence_06

Yes I realize that, but you can also realize that every single person can do that. I'm trusting you guys enough to not copy each other's arguments.

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@BearMan

You know we can just use those reasons right? I guess it is good it is long so I didn't read it, but if I read both sides then are those ideas really mine---or am I allowed to use them?

This is not an overly serious comment. It is just-about-right serious.

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@Vader
@seldiora

Good reply, Supa. I can see this will be a proper debate

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@seldiora

That was an interesting read and well-researched. Thanks for linking it.

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@SirAnonymous

you'd be surprised what a little research can do (https://www.deviantart.com/sel-diora/art/The-Ineffectiveness-of-Gun-Control-Policies-592871880)

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@seldiora

A bottom 10 debater just came out of the gate with a top 10-level argument? Now I've seen everything!

Seriously, you did an amazing job with this. While I fully expect Supa to come right back with an excellent argument, you could be a top-tier debater if you did this every time.

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@Intelligence_06

Same, I rarely go above 10K

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@MisterChris

Ragnar literally said something like"I would rather see a sentence rather than it stretched to 30,000 characters". If you see me anything avobe 12,000 characters, then it is next to no doubt that I am firing all of my guns.

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@Intelligence_06

Amend my previous statement to 20k characters

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@Intelligence_06

to be honest, I kind of wanted to see if supadudz could play the nitty-gritty game and slowly but surely take down the arguments. He didn't have time against Oromagi so we don't know for sure if the thorough refutation was enough to defeat him.

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@Intelligence_06

As a judge my eyes would glaze over if the argument was over maybe 12k characters. 8k is a bit low, especially if we're talking about true competitive formal debate imo

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@MisterChris

I will use whatever is enough. If it were me, an opening argument would be no more than 8000.

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@Crocodile

That said... Yeah Supa is going to have to come guns blazing

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@Crocodile

Let's not discount Supa yet... With a 30k character limit and the sudden competitive drive who knows what he will come out swinging with

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@seldiora

Interesting debate. This is a pretty good example of how choosing good topics and putting high effort into your beginning argument pays off in the long run.

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@MisterChris

you might want to check out https://gaymarriagedebate.jimdofree.com/ if you want to see a lengthier debate (though con side caves in and isn't as well researched)

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@seldiora

No offense, I thought this would be a easy win for Supa.

But holy hell you surpassed my expectations by a lot. Supa's gonna have a hard time

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@seldiora

My god. I agree with Chris. This argument is amazing.

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@seldiora

By far the most impressive constructive I've seen from you. Good job