Instigator / Con
14
1483
rating
327
debates
40.21%
won
Topic
#2438

I'm on trial/What is the problem you see with me?

Status
Finished

The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.

Winner & statistics
Better arguments
3
18
Better sources
2
12
Better legibility
6
6
Better conduct
3
6

After 6 votes and with 28 points ahead, the winner is...

Barney
Parameters
Publication date
Last updated date
Type
Standard
Number of rounds
5
Time for argument
Three days
Max argument characters
10,000
Voting period
One week
Point system
Multiple criterions
Voting system
Open
Contender / Pro
42
1810
rating
49
debates
100.0%
won
Description

Disclaimer : Regardless of the setup for voting win or lose, The aim of this interaction, Is for those that view it, Learn and or take away anything that will amount to any constructive value ultimately. So that counts as anything that'll cause one to reconsider an idea, Understand a subject better, Help build a greater wealth of knowledge getting closer to truth. When either of us has accomplished that with any individual here, That's who the victor of the debate becomes.

Here you air your disputes involving the debates I been in with you or with anyone. The topics, the premises, debates that you've seen me in, let's discuss them. Hopefully everybody gets a chance, gets a turn at this as I plan to do several of these trials/confrontations.

Now this is still in the spirit of contest. As you try to prove your points valid, I will render my points to refute and or correct yours.

So in regards to the way I argue or why I made a particular point, said a particular thing, came up with a particular topic, even personal views, here's the opportunity to challenge it all in this challenge. You can question, challenge a challenge, etc.

For clarity or questions, Please send a message or comment prior to accepting debate.

Criterion
Con
Tie
Pro
Points
Better arguments
3 point(s)
Better sources
2 point(s)
Better legibility
1 point(s)
Better conduct
1 point(s)
Reason:

Firstly to clarify - I've seen mentions of character assasination

Character Assasination: "the malicious and unjustified harming of a person's good reputation." Oxford Languages

Pro does not seem to maliciously harm Mall's "good" reputation, nor is the "harm" unjustified. Everything claimed by pro is backed up by a source demonstrating what they say as truth (some multiple sources) Therefore there is no character assassination on Pro's (Contender's) part.

To the actual debate:

It starts off with a pretty clear cut R1, Malls waives to wait for the criticisms, and Pro (Ragnar) provides a list of such. In R2 Mall either dismisses each claim without justification, or attempts to cite a lack of evidence for each claim. Pro comes back with the fact that they did indeed provide sources, and provides even more sources. R3, is essentially the same Rhetoric from Con, and it does as much convincing as it did the first round, and Pro simply lists off their contentions with some admittable questionable critiques of Mall.

R4 and R5 are simply back and forth with no rebuttals on Mall's part.

Therefore I give the arguments to Pro.

Con fails provide to any sources, while Pro provides a multitude, therefore Pro also get's points on sources.

While it is true that Pro does not character assassinate Con, they do provide some criticism that would be considered rude, but Con also continuously ignored sources provided in the text they cited. For those reasons, I will leave conduct in the middle, as it is more up to perspective/opinion who's was better.

Criterion
Con
Tie
Pro
Points
Better arguments
3 point(s)
Better sources
2 point(s)
Better legibility
1 point(s)
Better conduct
1 point(s)
Reason:

Pro was the only side to use sources and successfully provided several things that he finds Pro does wrong, the most severe being Holocaust denial and sympathising with Nazi propaganda.

I do not think this is truly accurate, I think Mall (Con) is playing devil's advocate in many of his debates. That said, Con keeps asking 'but why' to anything Pro raises with the entire last 2 Round of debate dedicated to Con essentially surrendering but with a tone of fervored resistance and as such he didn't overtly concede.

Pro is fairly merciless to Con and basically 'character assassinates' him to a degree where I think he's not even considering that Mall didn't really mean he supported something just because he happened to host a debate asking someone to prove that Hitler was racist. Con clearly is frustrated and struggled to defend himself but I'm unclear as to whether or not Con understand that he consented to have his character attacked in this debate by its very title and structure... I leave the Conduct points tied but it leans towards Con.

Criterion
Con
Tie
Pro
Points
Better arguments
3 point(s)
Better sources
2 point(s)
Better legibility
1 point(s)
Better conduct
1 point(s)
Reason:

con spent most of the debate NOT debating pros arguments

that's poor conduct

Criterion
Con
Tie
Pro
Points
Better arguments
3 point(s)
Better sources
2 point(s)
Better legibility
1 point(s)
Better conduct
1 point(s)
Reason:

I don't want to repeat myself from my previous RFDs too much, so I'll keep this short. Pro presents a case. Con largely does nothing to assail that case, aside from questioning the validity of points Pro made. He doesn't give us an alternate lens through which to view those points, nor does he provide information that runs contrary to the points that Pro made. Apart from that, the entire basis for the debate is so vague that it's unclear what the burden of proof even was, providing Pro with any number of avenues to win this debate and, in the absence of challenge, providing Con with little opportunity to challenge him. Con put himself on trial, and lost.

Criterion
Con
Tie
Pro
Points
Better arguments
3 point(s)
Better sources
2 point(s)
Better legibility
1 point(s)
Better conduct
1 point(s)
Reason:

Mall didn't even rebute Ragnar's points.
Plus he was awfully rude.

Criterion
Con
Tie
Pro
Points
Better arguments
3 point(s)
Better sources
2 point(s)
Better legibility
1 point(s)
Better conduct
1 point(s)
Reason:

obvious. Mall did not negate the accusations of being racist (supporting Hitler), or use any sources.