Instigator / Pro
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1492
rating
333
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40.69%
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Topic
#2521
Entrepreneurship doesn't actually mean in business for yourself.
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Finished
The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.
Winner & statistics
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After not so many votes...
It's a tie!
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- Publication date
- Last updated date
- Type
- Standard
- Number of rounds
- 4
- Time for argument
- Three days
- Max argument characters
- 10,000
- Voting period
- One week
- Point system
- Multiple criterions
- Voting system
- Open
Contender / Con
0
1417
rating
158
debates
32.59%
won
Description
Disclaimer : Regardless of the setup for voting win or lose, The aim of this interaction, Is for those that view it, Learn and or take away anything that will amount to any constructive value ultimately. So that counts as anything that'll cause one to reconsider an idea, Understand a subject better, Help build a greater wealth of knowledge getting closer to truth. When either of us has accomplished that with any individual here, That's who the victor of the debate becomes.
Entrepreneurship doesn't actually mean in business for yourself.
The whole idea of being a self starter here, the perception is that you're your own boss. It's your own business, rules, regulations, standards and what can be most attractive of all, your own schedule.
But just like an employee that has much of their employment dictated by their employer, the business owner has much of their business still dictated under business management 101. That is supply and demand or basically the consumer
So granted I'm a "self made something". I've left behind the workforce.
The only thing I've succeeded in doing was moving from employee to an employer type role.
Sure I can hire a crew or staff to work under me. I can give orders or instructions, even demand whatever it is here and there under legal authority. The government I guess is the big , big boss.
But I'm certainly not the boss I think I am. Is it I or really the customers that run my business?
For questions, comments, gripes, send a message , comment , all that.
Round 1
Pro
#1
What are your ideas?
My side is very straightforward. Many business owners are under an illusion. Similarly to an individual that thinks they're free because their physical body is but not their mind.
So the business owner thinks they just have to answer to themselves and what not, no, no, no,no.
The only way they can be in business or have a business is through whom that buys from them ultimately.
Con
#2
while it's true that entrepreneurship has customers that are important to sustaining the business, the core ideals can be for yourself, especially since most business are for profit. Businesses are a give and take relationship, similar to a friendship or partnership, where both yourself and the other person can be equally important. So Entrepreneurship is about yourself, but it isn't only about yourself. You can still personally decide for example, whether to sell clothes or computers, your production methods, your salaries, so on and so forth. Just because ultimately you want to fulfill people's wants does not mean you don't look for your wants either. And if the people are unreasonable you can always go for a specific audience. For instance, maybe you want some very luxurious cars that shut out low wage workers. And that's fine. There are many cars that would bankrupt and average person ($200,000 dollar worth basis, plus gas and repairs...). But so long as someone can support your business, then you can be satisfied. So you see that Entrepreneurship does actually mean being about yourself (the business owners). Otherwise you wouldn't be doing something you love, and very few people are selfless enough to solely work for other people's gain.
Round 2
Pro
#3
"while it's true that entrepreneurship has customers that are important to sustaining the business, "
Wherever the significance, the only thing to keep the business a float is the dollar. It's not like it's one of things. This is the "make it or break it " of a business.
"the core ideals can be for yourself, especially since most business are for profit."
The main thing is the profit if you're in business for nothing else. The end result is profit. If any business owner has too little to none, they're done son. Whatever ideals they had, went down the drain with their failing business.
" Businesses are a give and take relationship, similar to a friendship or partnership, where both yourself and the other person can be equally important. "
Sure, in the game of business, it's the supply and demand. I have to have a supply that's important to have it be in demand to somebody. Right there I'm answering to the market place. It's whatever the market is calling for that's important. I can choose what I want to sell and think I answer to what I want to sell, but I'd be mistaken. If I want to be successful, the final answer comes from the market. They decide whether they buy what I'm selling in order for me to get a living out of my business.
The employee is important to the employer or else why have the employee?
The employer is important to the employee. How else would the employee be employed without the employer?
It doesn't change the arrangement that the agreement is of the employee being under dictation/being given orders by the employer during employment.
"So Entrepreneurship is about yourself, but it isn't only about yourself. "
When we're talking money, getting it from others, that's what it'll always be about.
It's 100 percent about the customer.
I can have an idea, something I like but is it marketable?
If it was about myself, I wouldn't worry about it being marketable.
A lot of times, I can't even go into a business just because I like it. It's all about what's current at the time. If it happens to be nothing of a passion of mine but I know it will sell, it pays the bills, am I just going to settle being broke or will I hop on the financial opportunity?
It's the consumer that has the last say.
"You can still personally decide for example, whether to sell clothes or computers, your production methods, your salaries, so on and so forth. "
Your decisions are based on the market. If computers are more in demand, what are you going to do?
You follow and answer to the consumer demand. That will dictate your production line, how much your profit will be as the consumers decide how much they'll buy from you among the competition too. Don't forget about comparing and bargaining. That's another factor in folks deciding to buy from you. You can't decide for them.
"Just because ultimately you want to fulfill people's wants does not mean you don't look for your wants either. "
Do you want a successful business? What about a multi-million dollar organization?
You better realize who is really in charge of that.
Those should be your wants.
"And if the people are unreasonable you can always go for a specific audience."
As long as you find a market. See there's only a market based on people deciding to buy from you. They have the say in what they buy. This is not coercion or having a guaranteed sellable product.
That particular niche is not something you dictate to or make up yourself. It has to already be existing there or blooming all outside of you. If it's not there, you're out of luck. You have an idea that's yours sure but hope there is a market for it to work.
"For instance, maybe you want some very luxurious cars that shut out low wage workers. And that's fine. There are many cars that would bankrupt and average person ($200,000 dollar worth basis, plus gas and repairs...). But so long as someone can support your business, then you can be satisfied. "
Exactly so as long as ****someone **** not you but needing ***someone else**** to support the business, well you'll be in business.
"So you see that Entrepreneurship does actually mean being about yourself (the business owners)."
What does "being about yourself" mean in this context when you say it ?
"Otherwise you wouldn't be doing something you love, and very few people are selfless enough to solely work for other people's gain."
You can't always look for what you love to do. The main situation is getting a dollar. Either way, you're in business for the customer. No customer, no business. No customer, no business but I can love what I do all day long. No customer base for it, no business. I may not love it but with no customers, no business anyway.
I despise drug dealing but it sells in my neighborhood. That's why it's profitable from week to week, "paid in full". Some kind of movie by the way.
You say very few are selfless but those few would be in business based on the market they found. Also a profit is a gain. People have a need or want, you supply it. People supply you with profit. This is the highest want or need of all to a business owner seeking it.
One thing to really get straight is that both sides, the owner, customer have a need . Just like an employer and employee.
The business owner perceive to be their own boss because of being a self starter. Like I as an employee perceive to be my own boss because I have power over accepting or rejecting a job. Just like the business owner's business is based on customer choice, dictating the market, me having a job with conditions is dictated by a company/ceo .
The business owner and employee would have to align their "bossmanship" if you will, with the dictatorship. Otherwise , nobody will remain in business.
So being a ceo , you only remain one based on consumer volume. That's what a lot of those executive meetings are about. They discuss profit margins, productivity, sale numbers, demand, growth, etc.
They're talking about market strategies as they're looking to remain a successful business.
It's not a give and take. It's a give and accept or reject. As only one side can dictate.
Con
#4
I see what you mean. The supply is indeed a crucial to sustain your business, and you must appeal to them in one way or another. However, when businessmen are truly sly and malicious, they are able to trick customers and make it more about themselves. Consider scammers often trick customers into paying money for non-existent products, or paying far too much for defective products. It's true that this is looked down upon and punished, but the truth is that a lot of businessmen believe that entrepreneurship is only about yourself. Mall also is only thinking about well regulated markets and not a pure market like capitalism. It is entirely plausible in pure capitalism that monopolies will exist. And in that case businesses will only be about yourself. Because you have the sole control of resources, you are able to dictate prices and earn profit while ignoring most customer's needs, so long as some people can pay up. There are numerous problems with businesses. I'd argue that it's precisely because businesses are inherently actually about your own motivations and ideals, that forced government to create supply and demand, prevent monopolies, and keep businesses in check. Because otherwise it becomes the black market, where prices are absurdly high, and the business is definitely about yourself now, since you are risking your own liberty (potentially getting in jail), and you wouldn't care if your customer got caught, so long as you aren't also in suspicion.
Round 3
Pro
#5
"However, when businessmen are truly sly and malicious, they are able to trick customers and make it more about themselves. Consider scammers often trick customers into paying money for non-existent products, or paying far too much for defective products. "
If the business owner was non-profit, it be different. As long as it's based on somebody else's choice, it's like you're beholden to that choice.
Regardless of the circumstances, the person makes the choice to buy. As long as a gun wasn't held to their head, they choose to buy a lemon or buy top quality.
Now a gun to the head , you call that robbery, not a legit business person.
", but the truth is that a lot of businessmen believe that entrepreneurship is only about yourself. "
Right , it's an illusion just like a person that thinks they're free when their body is but their mind isn't.
"you are able to dictate prices and earn profit while ignoring most customer's needs,"
Somebody that tells another how much something costs is one thing. It's another thing of that other person buying.
You can ignore a need that has nothing to do with your business. It depends on what you're in business for. Unless someone is robbing you, nobody can sell you something that you're not buying.
You may have never thought about this before so you may not realize the actual cycle of the system that's all around us.
The business owner can tell a consumer all about prices while the market dictates to the business owner what its consumers will buy.
The consumer's side only has the charge in it which means control.
You mentioned resources and that's pretty much the control power individuals have.
We as individuals lost our control of resources and have gotten comfortable with this industry structure.
Industries know this and pass an illusion that the individual can just be told what to buy and not learn to take up resources themselves.
Something like planting and farming has definitely been turned over to a routine of just the grocery store handling business with the manufacturer/corporation/factory/plant that collects from the root or farmers in order for the individual to purchase groceries .
In reality, it's the customer that has the control based on their choice to buy or better yet, do away with the routine as mentioned.
The business owner hopes things stay in this routine for the sake of their business.
Con
#6
good points, but I feel they only work in current society where businesses are regulated by governments and punished if they go wrong. But a truly selfish businessman if desiring to do so, may make the business all about him. It is just that most people are altruistic and choose to help others. So business can be about yourself if you want to.
Round 4
Pro
#7
When it's truly about helping others, 100 percent absolutely about that, you'll notice no money involved.
If my intent is just to help you, I won't charge you anything. If my intent is to make a living via my corner store business, I put things out to be sold to you. Now what comes along with that can be a help to you. But my major interest relies on your choice to buy from me.
Nothing is as important as the revenue and without it, everything else is worthless to even mention.
I know you'll choose to buy from me because I know what the markets says you're all about.
I have very convenient merchandise that's in demand. What I sell describes my market , who my customers are. So I have a business according to my customers, therefore a business about my customers. I'm in business for my customers. My business continues to exists because of my customers.
Now how can the business be about me? Unless I include myself in the market and put my money in my own register, the only part that's about me is my idea of going into business for what it's worth.
But to be in business for my idea won't work that way and is therefore worthless if I don't have a market to make the business
The market makes the business, not I. I'm only on a particular corner some where with a store due to the market indicating to me of that particular location being a great traffic area.
Even if it was I that designed all the advertisement to help get my location recognized, what are in those flyers that people are able to see to have them decide for themselves to stop by my establishment?
Everything that the market has told me that they're interested in buying.
So it can take me to start business development, my idea , that's about me. Even with that it still shows how everything is connected.
I may have the spirit of entrepreneurship. It's an innate passion of mine and to where else it had no derivative . But the business plan I made could be based on an idea I got from a present economic situation which indicates a demand for an item.
Let's say the items I want to sell are beauty products, arts and crafts, auto parts. Each of these I have an affinity for due to my natural creativity, decorative eye and I'm good with my hands and machines.
Now will my business be a business for profit if I just think all there is to this is just selling what I like?
If these parts are not in demand, whatever they are, if the prices aren't competitive, whatever they are, if the location is poor, wherever it is, if the business hours are inappropriate, etc., I will have no business as I have no business based on the market.
The market makes the business regardless of what I like to sell.
Con
#8
Okay, I get what Mall's saying, you have to understand demand, or create the need for demand, but ironically your business may precisely destroy resources to gain demand. For example, if I cut down trees in order to build a pollution ridding invention, then I can sneakily and greedily potentially gain an infinite loophole as long as I can prove the benefits outweigh the costs. He has conceded that you enter the business yourself, and decide personally what kind of item you want to sell. As long as you can trick or convince the other person, you can still profit. So it would be less about them and more about yourself, especially if after you scammed them, they realize they didn't want the product after all. Returns and suing companies only exist in current government- regulated societies, not in the prime nature of market and trading, on an essence level. Remember what I said in the beginning, even in modern day it is equally about yourself and the consumer. So it is actually about yourself, as well as actually being about your consumer. It's not mutually exclusive. Without yourself to start the business, only non-profit companies would be running, few in the minorities. Even if you were the only consumer of the product, the demand would still exist and therefore you could make the business about yourself.
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Considering the point of business is to fulfill a demand... I guess I agree with Mall here.
I'll bite the bullet. There's some interesting ideas to be made about the con side.
Looks like there is no dispute about this. Ok we're in agreement.
I guess I'm right sometimes.
Right, no dispute about what a business starter is. No problem there. But to who or whom says you're in business or you're out of business?
The perception of being a business owner is that you're the boss. You are the boss that can't dictate against shutting down shop, closing your doors when the market says so.
ok, this one is more interesting, however Investopedia says "An entrepreneur is an individual who creates a new business, bearing most of the risks and enjoying most of the rewards". A better premise would be, "sustaining a business does not mainly rely on the creator(s) wants and needs"