Instigator / Pro
0
1603
rating
352
debates
65.34%
won
Topic

Tahani and The Good Place (spoilers and full debate topic inside)

Status
Finished

All stages have been completed. The voting points distribution and the result are presented below.

Voting points
0
1

With 1 vote and 1 point ahead, the winner is ...

Safalcon7
Parameters
More details
Publication date
Last update date
Category
Philosophy
Time for argument
One week
Voting system
Open voting
Voting period
One month
Point system
Winner selection
Rating mode
Rated
Characters per argument
30,000
Contender / Con
1
1569
rating
12
debates
66.67%
won
Description
~ 287 / 5,000

Full debate topic: Tahani Al-Jamil did not deserve to be assigned to the Bad Place based solely on the partially vain motives behind her extremely and consistently benevolent actions. She is in fact among the least malevolent human characters in the entire show, if not the single least.

Added:
Criterion
Pro
Tie
Con
Points
Winner
1 point(s)
Reason:

R1
PRO argues that Tahini did not merit Bad Place assignment because
*she had a cruel if opulent childhood
*she demonstrated outward kindness and charity in life and afterlife. The fact that her motivations were corrupted by jealousy should not diminish her benevolence to any great degree
*her relationship with Jason disproves snobbery
*she intentionally failed the Judge's test
CON correctly notes that PRO seems to be limiting the argument to the original afterlife system- under which nobody had earned the Good Place in 521 years because of the increasing complexity of human life- buying a tomato cost you points. Everybody deserved to be in the Bad Place according to the original system and nobody had to suffer the Bad Place according to the improved system. The system was not in error it just held humans to a superhuman standard under which either everybody deserved to be in the Bad Place or nobody did. PRO really needed to establish a specific ethical framework that supported the assertion that Tahani's treatment was unfair.
CON convincingly argues that truly ethical behavior must overcome disadvantages like Tahani's family and that benevolent behavior motivated by jealousy, attention-seeking and competitiveness is less ethical than benevolence motivated by generosity and compassion.
R2
PRO counters that both the accounting system and the Judge were flawed but PRO must establish what ethical framework is in play.
PRO's best argument is that Tahani often nurtures her friends.
PRO's argument that Tahani's talent for event organization demonstrates a concern for happiness at the community level is less convincing.
PRO dismisses CON's argument as predicated on the framework within the show. The accountancy system was uncallibrated for the complexity of modern life but it remains the only ethical framework by which Tahani has been judged. COB correctly suggests that the burden of providing some alternative preferable framework for judging is on PRO.
R3
PRO misses CON's point- conflating the burden for providing some preferable ethical framework with the burden of proof. These are different standards but related: how can PRO prove "DESERVED" if he does answer CON's question, "according to who?" The standard PRO must prove is "DESERVED" but deserved according to who or what benchmark.
R4
Mostly iterations on above themes.

CON might have provided the alternative framework for PRO but that might also have given PRO an opportunity to score more points within that framework (certainly Tahini does many good deeds during the show). Ultimately, the applicable standard was PRO's to provide and he while he consistently rejected the show's framework, he never gave us a replacement and never understood CON's reasonable request.

N.B.-
I wish more had been extrapolated from specific examples on both sides and I really wish CON had crafted some more specific indictments. After all, Tahani does bad things too. We establish in the first episode that her accent is FAKE! Even after improving herself to architect, she never gives up such affectations. Tearing down your sister's statue in the middle of a party in her honor is always jealous and wrong. Being friends with Kanye is always wrong. Remember that when they get to the Good Place and first smell "whatever makes you most happy," Tahani smells a curtain drawing closed between first class and economy. The thing that makes her *most happy in life* is her class/caste superiority, while Chidi is made most happy by the absolute truth.