Instigator / Pro
7
1644
rating
64
debates
65.63%
won
Topic
#3024

THBT Transgender People Should be Allowed to Compete in Sports

Status
Finished

The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.

Winner & statistics
Better arguments
3
3
Better sources
2
2
Better legibility
1
1
Better conduct
1
1

After 1 vote and with the same amount of points on both sides...

It's a tie!
Parameters
Publication date
Last updated date
Type
Standard
Number of rounds
4
Time for argument
Three days
Max argument characters
10,000
Voting period
One month
Point system
Multiple criterions
Voting system
Open
Contender / Con
7
1777
rating
79
debates
76.58%
won
Description

Transgender: denoting or relating to a person whose sense of personal identity and gender does not correspond with their birth sex

Sports: an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment.

Burden of proof is shared.

-->
@Sum1hugme
@Undefeatable
@Benjamin

**************************************************
>Reported Vote: Sum1hugme // Mod action: Not Removed
>Voting Policy: info.debateart.com/terms-of-service/voting-policy
>Points Awarded: none
>Reason for Decision: See Votes Tab.
>Reason for Mod Action:

The vote was found to be sufficient per the site voting policy standards.

The vote references comments #13 https://www.debateart.com/debates/3024/comment-links/37747
and comment #15 https://www.debateart.com/debates/3024/comment-links/38067

While usually comments shouldn't be factored into votes, both debaters calling it a tie in the comments seems fair game (the main point of vote moderation is to ensure things are fair to them, so no issue here).
**************************************************

-->
@Barney
@Benjamin

Yeah we should make this unrated just in case. I clearly remember Fauxlaw dropping rating in our first debate tied by seldiora

-->
@gugigor

My understanding is that it uses pretty standard formulas if a voted tie, so not as much of a shift as if there were a winner, but still some shift. So pro's 1688 would drop slightly, and con's 1551 would increase slightly.

The debaters may of course request to have debates changed from rated to unrated and vice versa, so long as the voting period has not concluded.

-->
@gugigor

If I remember correctly, his went up too.

-->
@Sum1hugme

in Elo ranking, you're supposed to Elo Up when you tie as a worse player/debater. Did you mean that your elo was higher?

-->
@gugigor

I'm pretty sure. When undefeatable and I tied in the ethics debate, I was ranked lower but my elo went up.

-->
@Barney

Can you confirm what would happen to Und's elo if this was voted to be tie? They agreed on tie but I'm sure they wouldn't want lower rating lol

-->
@Sum1hugme

I thought the person with higher elo gets lowered rating due to tie...

-->
@Sum1hugme

Ok, I cancelled.

-->
@Sum1hugme

Wait what?

-->
@Benjamin

But this way, you both gain elo

-->
@Barney
@Sum1hugme
@Undefeatable

I have reported Sum1hugme's vote --- because unvoted ties don't affect rating or win%.

-->
@Undefeatable

Oh, I didn't see your comment before now, sorry for the delay.

Yeah sure. You had no time for arguments. Let's call a tie.

Vote bump

-->
@Benjamin

I've been too busy these days, care to call for a tie?

-->
@Benjamin

https://smallpdf.com/shared#st=b787462f-a2e0-4b18-b5d0-ebe7cc19d253&fn=Transgender_exclusion_and_inclusion_in_s.pdf&ct=1619463283707&tl=share-document&rf=link

-->
@Undefeatable

Your source leads to a 404 page, could you please send me another one?

-->
@gugigor

I don’t see what is wrong with giving con arguments. What’s the point of comments then, since every comment has a chance of pro or con using it.

-->
@TheUnderdog

I wouldn't recommend giving Con so much arguments to work with. Not to mention that Bones' kritik of separating them negates that argument entirely.

Transwomen have many different biological advantages relative to cis women that make them competing in sports an unfair advantage. They have more testosterone. They have denser bones. Transgenders can compete in athletic events, but they shouldn't be counted as biological girls. There should be men's sports statistics, female sports statistics, and transmen and transwomen should be counted separately. Allowing biological advantages to be counted when they are so extreme as denser bone structures is like having a cheetah compete against Usain bolt, and claiming the match is fair. The cheetah will win because cheetahs are just better at sprinting than our fastest humans. Males, especially at competitive levels tend to be better at sprinting than females. Letting people with male bodies compete against female bodies is like letting a cheetah compete against Usain bolt.

-->
@Undefeatable

Undefeatable because of your amazing debating skills or undefeatable or undefeatable because of your ability to kritik?

-->
@Bones

Well.. my username is Undefeatable

-->
@Undefeatable

Also by saying "allowed to compete in sports" allows for you to kritik the topic by saying " we should create their own division to compete in, thus allowing them to compete in sports", which no sane person disagrees with.

-->
@Undefeatable

I appreciate the nod, but I wouldn't have accepted this debate assuming the role of Con. "Allowed" is different from "treat." And I wouldn't object to transgenders participating in Sports.

-->
@Bones

Most progressives like myself also support what the conservatives do. That barrier is sacred to the fairness of sports on the female SEX, not gender.

-->
@Undefeatable

Compete in sports? The usual republican view isn't that they should be prohibited from sports, but that a biological man should not be able to compete in women's wrestling after some hormone therapy.

-->
@Athias

if you can defeat Weaker Edge in general terms, surely you'd have no problem in even more specific policy based debate?