The Holocaust was not about race
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After 2 votes and with 2 points ahead, the winner is...
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- 3
- Time for argument
- Three days
- Max argument characters
- 8,000
- Voting period
- One week
- Point system
- Winner selection
- Voting system
- Open
Please argue in the spirit of which the debate was intended, and I will do the same.
Full resolution. "HItler's main motivation for the holocaust was most likely not because of his racism"
While I won't overtly forbid kritics on this topic, let's avoid ones where we don't address the topic at hand, such as arguing the holocaust did not happen, because it would harm the spirit of this debate.
“The Hitler ofthis episode belies the common misconception that he was a primitive,raging, and nihilistic dark elemental force. Rather, he was a manwith an emerging deep understanding of how political processes,systems, and the public sphere worked. His study of propagandatechniques while serving in World War I had provided him with anappreciation for political narratives that would help him plot hisway to power.”“Hisautobiography-in-disguise repeatedly uses biblical language, arguingthat the book should “become the new bible of today as well as the‘Book of the German People.’” It also directly compares Hitlerto Jesus, likening the purported moment of his politicization inPasewalk to Jesus’s resurrection:“This man, destined to eternal night, who during this hourendured crucifixion on pitiless Calvary, who suffered in body andsoul; one of the most wretched from among this crowd of brokenheroes: this man’s eyes shall be opened! Calm shall be restored tohis convulsed features. In the ecstasy that is only granted to thedying seer, his dead eyes shall be filled with new light, newsplendor, new life!”
“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people willeventually come to believe it.”
“During the late 1920s and early 1930s, Germany was experiencinggreat economic and social hardship. ......defeated inthe First World War, and had been forced to pay huge reparations tothe Allies. As a result, Germany suffered terrible inflation and massunemployment”
“In the early twentieth century, a dense corporate network wascreated among thelarge German corporations ("Germany Inc."). About 16% ofthe members of thiscorporate network were of Jewish background. At the center of thenetwork (biglinkers) about 25% were Jewish. The percentage of Jews in thegeneral populationwas less than 1% in 1914”
“The economic necessity of maintaining a separate culture hasmeant not only social separation but also resentments of thatseparation by the surrounding community—resentments that couldeasily be whipped up to political hostility or outright violence bysuitably talented demagogues. “
“Since survival in office depends upon maintaining the supportof thewinning coalition, leaders pick the policies that their supportersprefer”
“Thousands of men of Jewish descent and hundreds of what the Nazis called ‘full Jews’ served in the military with Hitler’s knowledge. The Nazis allowed these men to serve but at the same time exterminated their families,” Rigg said. [10 Jewish Generals]"Hitler was very often photographed with children for propaganda purposes. The shocking thing about this piece is it seems he had a genuine affinity for the young girl. It is thought that when he discovered Rosa had the same birthday, he invited Rosa and her mother Karoline up to the house - where these photographs were taken.Not long afterwards, it was discovered that Karoline's mother had been Jewish, making Rosa Jewish in the eyes of the Nazi state. [Jewish girl ]Whenever we hear the name Adolph Hitler, the first thing that comes to mind is his anti-semitic views that led to the genocide of millions of Jewish people in Europe. He was a dictator, a madman, and a mass murderer. When the Nazis started occupying other nations in Europe and persecuting the Jews, one Jewish physician, together with his family, was spared from the horrors of the Holocaust. Adolf Hitler was their protector... Adolf was only eighteen-years-old then, and his family was part of the impoverished class. Consequently, they could not afford expensive medical treatments for his mother. Despite that, Dr. Bloch was very understanding. He usually charged less, sometimes even not charging his usual fee. And because of this, Adolf swore his “everlasting gratitude” to the Jewish doctor who helped them in their difficult times. [Edourd Bloch]
- Real Hitler
"PRO is mistaken in claiming that Hitler was secretly pro-jewish or that his motivation for the hollocaust was something else than racism. Let PRO's own sources speak"
"Hitler was a human being like anyone else. When he got to know someone personally and formed an emotional bond with them, he could not get himself to hate them."
- Selectorate Theory
"no evidence supports the notion that Hitler privately loved the Jews and only orchestrated their genocide in an attempt to appease his own cult."
Selectorate theory explains why leaders take the actions they do,particularly autocratic leaders such as Adolph Hitler. The theory has been tested by looking at regimes from the last 100 years. These leaders have first and foremost a desire to stay in power, as these types of leaders are usually executed if they fail to remain in power. Selctorate theory explains that Hitler’s main motivation was to stay in power.“Since survival in office depends upon maintaining the support of thewinning coalition, leaders pick the policies that their supporters prefer”
"PRO tries to de-racify Hitlers hate towards the Jews by supporting his view of their position in German society. He claims the Jewish people were too powerfull and successfull - thus their genocide was not based on race."
"The economic necessity of maintaining a separate culture has meant not only social separation but also resentments of that separation by the surrounding community—resentments that could easily be whipped up to political hostility or outright violence by suitably talented demagogues. “
Hitler had a racist world view. Hitler believed that Jews were particularly destructive to the German ‘Aryan’ race, and did not have any place in Nazi Germany. [2]
The reputation of the Nazi police and the secret police lead by Himmler was such that no-one wished to cause offence. People kept their thoughts to themselves unless they wished to invite trouble. In this sense, Nazi Germany was a nation run on fear of the government. Hitler had created a one party state within months of being appointed chancellor. His only remaining problem from his point of view was loyalty within his own party ranks. In June 1934, he overcame this with the Night of the Long Knives. [4].
Nazi racial ideology characterized the Jews as Untermenschen (German: “subhumans”). The Nazis portrayed the Jews as a race and not as a religious group. Hitler opposed Jews for the values they brought into the world. Social justice and compassionate assistance to the weak stood in the way of what he perceived as the natural order, in which the powerful exercise unrestrained power. In Hitler’s view, such restraint on the exercise of power would inevitably lead to the weakening, even the defeat, of the master race. [BRITANNICAt]
- Hitler was motivated by his self-made ideology, in which racism was a central pillar.
- Hitler was not motivated by fear of his party, he rarely feared anything. He shared the same motivation as his party, ideological racism.
- Hitler sparing some Jews for personal reasons doesn't show that he loved the jewish race
- Actions speak louder than words, and in Hitlers case, they both tell the same story: Hitler would get no rest before the world was reshaped in accordance with his own passionate racist ideals
this debate literally was a resolution dispute.
One side stuck by the debate's description rewriting the resolution as "Hitler's main motivation for the holocaust was most likely notbecause of his racism" while the other side insisted the resolution really was the debate title "The Holocaust was not about race".
In my eyes, both the respective sides (Pro and Con) won their chosen resolution, so now I need to strongly consider how to go about deciding which the resolution was before breaking down the argument-lines.
Well... It was simple. This is an official Tournament debate that Pro WROTE intentionally with the title that it has. So, if I buy into the idea that Hitler had power-lust as his primary motive, it means absolutely nothing if the Holocaust was about race. Benjamin won because in reality Pro's arguments were a series of concessions arguing a different resolution that conceded that it was about race in part for sure (a large part at that, as Benjamin elaborates on, extensively).
Removing your vote so that you have the option to recast it, as you clearly had a typo in the point selection.
Reason:
Con wins primarily, by virtue of their better argument.
But one must also take into account Pro's lazy use of the space key.........Pimplies Q for example.
And their ultimate forfeiture.
That is not at all protocol.
Thanks, good job analyzing the debate. I think you made some mistakes but we can't always separate bias from our analysis and I can tell you tried real hard. Thanks
I wrote the resolution in the description. The title of the debate is not the resolution and anyone who accepts a debate is required to read the descruption
Just delete your vote and make a new one. If you can’t delete it anymore, ask a site moderator to.
Sorry again. Didn't apologize to the right person.
Sorry...Forgot to tick the Con button.
Fair enough
right now I'm only looking at the tournament debates
Are you willing to vote for biological women and psychology as well?
For me it's a clear win for Ben.
Even if arguments are tied, ben wins by far on grammar/spelling and Ben takes conduct because of forfeit
I'll vote in a bit
Only one round was forfeited, so I'm not calling this one an FF
This has becomes ridiculous to read, to be honest. I have no clue how to even vote on a debate like this as they both have a legitimate reason to say their resolution is the real one.
Con and Pro have two very different ideas about what the debate is so both are winning their current resolution at the moment.
That is not the resolution of the debate. UT is the title
Glad we both agree on that topic
I'll take a pass on that one.
Debate me on men peeing sitting down
It's click bait, the voting period is only one week so people need an excuse to click on it.
I think this debate was poorly named. The debate title and your resolution seem like two very different statements to me.
I just realized when I copy and pasted from libre office, this site erased some spaces and words are cobbled together. Sorry
I am working on it, currently trying to fit a 20k character argument into a 8k debate format.
thanks
I'll keep an eye on this and make sure to advertise this when its time to vote.
benjamin has determined he wants to do this debate for the february tournament listed here. https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/7273-february-debate-tournament
Please only accept if you are Benjamin
Here is a thread to talk about the topic, so the comment section for a debate can be strictly about what is going on with the debate. https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/7286-whoopi-goldberg-is-right-about-the-holocaust