Instigator / Pro
0
1510
rating
2
debates
50.0%
won
Topic
#3472

goku would beat superman if they had a hypothetical combat governed by the powers and abilities of both in addition to the rules of dc and dragon ball.

Status
Finished

The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.

Winner & statistics
Winner
0
2

After 2 votes and with 2 points ahead, the winner is...

RationalMadman
Tags
Parameters
Publication date
Last updated date
Type
Standard
Number of rounds
5
Time for argument
Two days
Max argument characters
10,000
Voting period
One week
Point system
Winner selection
Voting system
Open
Contender / Con
2
1697
rating
556
debates
68.17%
won
Description

firstly i mean random physical combat, goku is not going to beat superman in a game of chess, secondly i am using post crisis version of superman and akira toriyama version for goku, i am not going Let's talk about pre-crisis superman, superman one million, superman's cosmic armor (which is actually a fusion between superman and ultraman) or superman milk.
The feats that superman achieved in crossovers with marvel are not valid (I don't want to see anyone saying superman > thanos) nor those achieved in alternate universes to prime earth (so you can get rid of all the feats of injustice), neither is any validity goku anti-feat that has happened in the anime, and only those that happened in the manga of toriyama and toyotaro will be valid.

-->
@RationalMadman

I dislike URL shorteners, largely because I can judge a lot about a source from the URL. Further, if I want to go back afterwards to review sources, it's nice to tell them apart at a glance.

-->
@Barney

What is wrong with tinyurl, I can just cut down hyperlinked text for even shorter character count.

FYI, the whole point about the infinite void being a space of infinite size is never held up in the show. What we see is validation that the whole World of Void is shaking, but despite the name, no one ever says it's actually infinite in size. Worse yet, the use of infinite is a mistranslation of a Japanese word meaning eternity, which is a measure of time, not occupied space. That makes it really difficult to come to any conclusions regarding what shaking this space actually means.

-->
@Barney

"It seems that what you wanted to discuss and what you actually argued differ."
It could be, I'm still learning English, sites like this don't exist in Spanish.

"Just look at how many great Goku attacks are on your R1 and R2."
the only great attack is hakai, the power clash with bills used a very small fraction of power.

"I see talking about his big reality erasure attack, not his most powerful triple erase attacks or whatever."
that was literally the only "big attack", and as my opponent demonstrated, it is indeed a weak attack.

"I see the defense of a different type of attack (ki) but not the people's dust energy attack that you built your arguments on."
I never built my arguments on hakai, that was a secondary argument, and I said it several times.

"On sourcing, I really don't like that your opponent used tinyurl, but there ends up being sources like https://fictionhorizon.com/how-fast-is-superman/ vs https://ibb.co/Fz7Tdth where you don't I do. I understand what is supposed to be going on, and this one I specifically referred to https://ibb.co/d5n7kyY in which Gogeta SSB is just some random guy making a statement. The difference in quality here is overwhelming ."
There is a reason why my opponent never questioned my source, and that is, because I showed another source much better than my opponent's, the anime:
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3Dl1iqKUZfDsk&ved=2ahUKEwiuyufh0L34AhU1K0QIHZGEBnYQwqsBegQIAxAB&usg=AOvVaw3kTJ8-gPeq4lqPzMwLGWKU

-->
@Untotalgenio

It sounds like what you meant to argue, and what you actually argued differ. Just look at how many big Goku attacks are in your R1 and R2. I see talk of his big erase people from reality attack, not his more powerful triple erase people or whatever attacks. I see defense of a different attack type (ki), but not the turn people to dust energy attack you built your arguments on.

On sourcing, I really dislike that your oppoment used tinyurl, but there ends up being sources like https://fictionhorizon.com/how-fast-is-superman/ vs https://ibb.co/Fz7Tdth where I don't understand what is supposed to be happening, and this one which I specifically referenced https://ibb.co/d5n7kyY which Gogeta SSB is just some random guy making an assertion. The quality difference here is overwhelming.

-->
@RationalMadman

Not so sure I agree, but I get your point.

-->
@whiteflame

" I think focusing on what each of them has managed to tank in terms of hits at their best is a good choice, but you really have to scale those carefully, which yeah, does take time and research to do. I do think there's a good amount of evidence supporting Superman coming out on top in this matchup, but I also believe there's a case to be made for Goku managing this, it's just more of an uphill battle."

Actually the uphill battle is for Superman if it comes to tanking hits. Goku is more a lower IQ hypertank, Superman is an insanely fast dodger who has a reaction time almost like speed of light itself. The key is Superman's dodging, not what he can tank (both are extreme but reaction time and dodging is more extreme)

-->
@RationalMadman

A lot of what I know on Superman I learned second-hand (never been much of a comic reader and I've only got some basics under my belt for movies and TV shows), but I've watched plenty of DBZ, DBGT (unfortunately), and DBS, so I likely had more insight into Goku as a character than I do Superman.

That being said, these fantasy versus matches that cross universes are always a little iffy. Both of these characters have become much stronger over even the restricted runs that Untotalgenio uses, so comparing them to single match-ups is going to be tricky. I think focusing on what each of them has managed to tank in terms of hits at their best is a good choice, but you really have to scale those carefully, which yeah, does take time and research to do. I do think there's a good amount of evidence supporting Superman coming out on top in this matchup, but I also believe there's a case to be made for Goku managing this, it's just more of an uphill battle.

-->
@whiteflame

Thanks for your vote.

I didn't watch DBZ or Superman in-depth and even if I did, remembering and referring to specific movies, comics and the events in them would take so much work and not really be worth it for me.

Prior to accepting, I searched some things about this clash and the vast majority backed Superman. That was when I reckoned that I had the easier side.

-->
@Barney

It's your vote, and you can vote for whoever you want, however I don't agree with you:
1: I never said that goku would launch his most powerful attack from the beginning, I said that any one of his weakest attacks would be enough to destroy superman.
2: You claim my source is a random guy, however my opponent quoted a youtuber, whose statements carry no more weight than my source, because my source (as well as my opponent's) is based on the manga.
3. The claim that goku's attacks would recharge superman like a super sun was completely refuted, my opponent didn't even respond to these arguments.
4. In the entire debate there was no evidence that superman's heat vision could hurt goku, in fact I gave a lot of evidence to the contrary.

-->
@Barney

thanks for your vote, the thing is that he kept lying about Goku.

Goku needs to charge before his Qi based moves.

-->
@Barney
@whiteflame

I had nothing more to add in final round but yeah my bad for not posting. There was truly barely anything to add. vote as you see fit.