Instigator / Con
21
1493
rating
1
debates
0.0%
won
Topic
#3474
Do men have it harder than women in modern society?
Status
Finished
The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.
Winner & statistics
Better arguments
6
15
Better sources
10
10
Better legibility
5
5
Better conduct
0
5
After 5 votes and with 14 points ahead, the winner is...
RationalMadman
Tags
Parameters
- Publication date
- Last updated date
- Type
- Standard
- Number of rounds
- 5
- Time for argument
- Two days
- Max argument characters
- 10,000
- Voting period
- One month
- Point system
- Multiple criterions
- Voting system
- Open
Contender / Pro
35
1709
rating
564
debates
68.17%
won
Description
No information
Round 1
Con
#1
Interested in what you think supports this before I say my opinion, but for starters I'd say rape/sexual harassment percentages and how normalised sa is in our Society, something that ties into my last point but how most women are afraid to walk alone at night, including myself. Also the general biological downfalls of being a woman, periods and pregnancy.
Pro
#2
To Con: since it's a 5-round debate and you are starting so short-winded, I will do the same.
Men have to meet all of the sexist criteria that they used to while women are being freed from theirs.
Women can wear pants and take charge in relationships without being deemed non-feminine but if men act sensitive, needy and wear skirts and makeup they still get abused and mocked.
Women are protected by affirmative action and encouraged to 'prove men wrong', the idea of women taking men's jobs is constantly advocated for... Except... Wait a minute, why are like 98%-99% of bricklayers and heavy manual labourers all men still? Why is it that in the military it's mainly men laying their lives on the line still?
Mothers/women are favoured in the justice system disproportionately. Divorces and custody? Men don't stand a chance. For the same crime, men get longer sentences and are much more likely to be found guilty for crimes while on trial.
Whenever a woman runs for a position that is electable, the fact she is female in and of itself has become a point of privilege and entitlement that people root for. When men run for it and are also the majority race, religion and are heterosexual (or bi with heavy lean to opposite gender which is basically straight), they are seen as 'establishment' automatically and are rooted against by those seeking change. This is blatantly biased.
When a wife, girlfriend, daughter, sister and/or female friend is bitchy and cruel verbally and even physically with slaps and shoves in their taunting of the male close to them, people laugh and if he cries about it he is seen as weak.
In fact this leads into the rape point. Males are victims of male rapists often and have nobody to turn to but when they are victims of female molesters, abusers and toxic girlfriends they are often seen as toxic and ridiculous for complaining and the assumption is 'that man must have been mean to her and is framing her as abusive'.
Round 2
Con
#3
Whilst I do agree with you that it's a real problem that men can't take up typically feminine roles/show sensitive emotions without being mocked, it's men that instill these views themselves.
As for jobs whilst in the media women are encouraged to enter more male dominated fields, in real life a lot of these environments are hostile towards women, in the military especially, according to the BMJ military health journal 22.5% of female veterans surveyed said they had been sexually harrassed, 5.1% had experienced sexual assault and 22.7% experienced emotional abuse, the defence sub-committe on women in the armed forces also has an interesting report published on this "protecting those who protect us: women in the armed forces from recruitment to civilian life" .
I do agree with you that men have it much harder when it comes to the justice system, that's just a fact.
While being a woman or any sort of minority running for an electable position might make people more Inclined to vote for them, there's also people who will be less inclined so I'm not sure how to feel about that unless you have any reports or surveys that show the percentage either way.
Now I could include sources but it's an easy search to find out how many women are affected by domestic abuse/rape versus men, women are the majority victim, there is a real problem with men not feeling comfortable enough to come forward but this idea has been perpetuated by other men, I do think we're making strides in accepting male victims especially now after the depp vs heard trial.
You didn't touch on biological downsides but I really do think that's important, every single month (most) women have to go through severe cramps, hormones and straight up bleeding constantly, and aside from the physical cons, feminine hygiene products are really expensive.
I don't think men have no problems at all but to say they have it harder than women doesn't seem fair, most of the problems men face can be traced back to patriarchal views.
Two other points to bring up are bias in the medical system and the abhorrent sexualisation of women both in the media and real life.
Pro
#4
You see, men actually have monthly hormonal cycles too (it stems from us being pruginally female in the womb, the same thing that becomes the clitoris becomes the penis in males).
Men are also known to, as you say, have been responsible for patriarchal privilege... though, let us see what men's rights activism says about patriarchy.
See, MRA resents patriarchy as well. Just because one is male, they are raised to suck up their pain and agony, grind it in life to make a living, pay for dates, take responsibility etc
You even concede that the remnant elements of patriarchy such stopping men experiencing feminine privileges like the ability to be weak, needy, emotional, unemployed and seeking a strong partner to provide for them and all sorts of things are just not there... yet, women get to experience a lot of newfound privileges, protections and 'sweet lady' bias.
As recent as the epic Depp vs Heard case we saw that since 2017, Heard came out of a relationship where she had repeatedly abused Depp only to publicly demonise and humiliate him and even won the court case in UK regarding Sun Newspaper defamation of Depp. It took Depp 5 years of strategic planning and huge effort to push on TMZ magazine defamation from all those years ago, in order to make the public and jury there see the light. He needed the best lawyers out there to even stand a chance.
What men experience is that if they are victims (even of the male rapists and murderers, the latter of which target far more men than women) they are presumed to need to toughen up and get over it. If a chick literally would wank a guy off who is drunk, high and/or tired af, it would get giggles and barely any repercussion, of anyone of any gender does the equivalent to a woman, it is correctly seen to be full on date rape.
You mention pregnancy but what exactly is that on the scale? Unless you speak of rape, women often are the ones to do vindictive things like piercing condoms or missing the pill dosage in order to baby-trap. If anything, pregnancy is partly a power thing, especially in prochoice nation-states. It is the woman who can make or break the wellbeing of the offspring for those 9 months and is always presumed to have primary custody of the infant when he/she/they is/are born (nowadays we cannot call he or she to a baby that is assuming gender, I am not trolling, just telling).
Round 3
Pro
#6
Testosterone makes us impulsive and make fools of ourselves.
Help me, dear lady, with my masculine ways,
Help me, wise woman, with your mysterious maze 'cause I've been writing out a poem for your, needing some praise,
I'll die faster, can't wear plasters, need to 'tough it out' unphased,
They tell us we'll grow to be tougher while you giggle for days,
And if you want a man to like you, you just say as he says,
To be pretty just lose weight, I've gotta win a debate, down protein shakes, avoid mistakes while exhausting myself into shape,
You say the issue is rape, I say it is and men gape,
We are the victims who who do not fly and wear invisible capes,
We try to scream 'we are in pain' mouths shut with misandric tape.
Round 4
Pro
#8
In dating men need to do all the risking, women can play it safe and let the men come to them.
Criterion
Con
Tie
Pro
Points
Better arguments
3 point(s)
Better sources
2 point(s)
Better legibility
1 point(s)
Better conduct
1 point(s)
Reason:
People are naturally empathetic to women more than men. Its simply the truth, most people care more for a woman than a man if we have to pick to save only one. People are more quick to help a homeless woman and so on and so on. I think Rationalmadman made a good argument to the fact women can wear male clothes and no one cares, yet if a guy wears stockings he's called gay and looked at like he's a woman and no longer can be considered a man. People no longer expect women to be meek housewives as much anymore, but men still have masculine pressure to be dominant and to have a good (in part by the fact women still like these traits). All in all, rationalmadman wins.
Criterion
Con
Tie
Pro
Points
Better arguments
3 point(s)
Better sources
2 point(s)
Better legibility
1 point(s)
Better conduct
1 point(s)
Reason:
3/5 arguments forfeited
Criterion
Con
Tie
Pro
Points
Better arguments
3 point(s)
Better sources
2 point(s)
Better legibility
1 point(s)
Better conduct
1 point(s)
Reason:
Full forfeit
Criterion
Con
Tie
Pro
Points
Better arguments
3 point(s)
Better sources
2 point(s)
Better legibility
1 point(s)
Better conduct
1 point(s)
Reason:
Forfeiture.
I'm not sure when that changed, only when the written policy did.
it used to be that you could not award argument point unless it's deemed FF instead of the over 40% scenario that isn't FF where only conduct can be given.
The voting policy has been written this way for well over a year now. I don't think it was the result of any MEEP, just specifying what voters are allowed to do under different forfeit scenarios.
When did the policy change to be arguments too? Was is a MEEP?
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>Reported Vote: FLRW // Mod action: Not Removed
>Voting Policy: info.debateart.com/terms-of-service/voting-policy
>Points Awarded: 4 to pro.
>Reason for Decision: See Votes Tab.
>Reason for Mod Action:
On debates where one side has forfeited at least 40% of the debate, the voter may choose to award conduct and argument points solely based on the weight of those forfeits without further explanation. From the Voting Policy:
"Any unexcused forfeited round merits an automatic conduct loss, but arguments must still be voted on or justified as a tie. Repeated forfeitures waives the need to consider arguments (you still may, but by the choice of one side to miss at least 40% of the debate, the requirement ceases. And yes, this does apply to Choose Winner, which otherwise would not allow conduct to be the sole determinant)."
https://info.debateart.com/terms-of-service/voting-policy#forfeitures
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" pruginally" I meant originally in Round 2.
Honestly I don't know,
Men and women are different biologically,
Different roles depending on culture,
Have their own difficulties and eases in life,
Shivering in the cold or baking in the heat, both hard situations.
I'm not saying either sex is the cold or the heat, just that even in different situations, either situation can be difficult in it's own way.
Their dicks sure are.