Instigator / Pro
0
1485
rating
1
debates
0.0%
won
Topic
#3506
The Bible contains many errors.
Status
Finished
The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.
Winner & statistics
Winner
0
5
After 5 votes and with 5 points ahead, the winner is...
Novice_II
Tags
Parameters
- Publication date
- Last updated date
- Type
- Standard
- Number of rounds
- 2
- Time for argument
- One day
- Max argument characters
- 10,000
- Voting period
- One week
- Point system
- Winner selection
- Voting system
- Open
Contender / Con
5
1890
rating
98
debates
93.37%
won
Description
No information
Round 1
Pro
#1
The Bible:
the christian book where the supposed facts are narrated that include the appearance of adam and the resurrection of jesus christ.
Many:
a lot of something
error: a deviation from the accuracy or correctness
meaning of the discussion:
the christian book where the supposed events are narrated that include the appearance of adam and the resurrection of jesus christ contains a large number of deviations from what is correct or exact.
1. everything that says a lot of false things deviates a lot from what is correct.
2. the bible says many falsehoods.
3. the bible deviates a lot from what is correct.
for the first premise we have the definition of "false" and "correct", both are mutually exclusive concepts.
for the second premise we have all the false things that the bible says:
BIBLICAL CONTRADICTIONS
The flood lasted 150 days in Genesis 7:24, 40 days in Genesis 7:17,
ten months in Genesis 8:5.
Terah: How old was he when he died? He was 70 years old when his son was born.
Abraham (Gen 11,16) and died at the age of 205, 135
years later (Gn 11,32). But Abraham was only 75 years old when
left Haran, and Terah was already dead (Gen 12:4, Acts 7:4).
How many of Jacob's family went to Egypt? Genesis 46:27, Ex 1:5 and
Deut 10:22 all say 70. Acts 7:14 (and the Septuagint) says
75.
How long was the stay in Egypt? 400 years (Gen 15:13, Acts
7:6). 430 years (Ex 12:40). Four generations of Levi (Ex.
6:16-20; Levi > Kohath > Amram > Moses; actually three: Levi
> Jochebed > Moses; Numbers 26:59, Ex 6:20). coat was born
before going to Egypt (Gen 46,8-11) and died at the age of 133 years (Ex.
6.18). Amram died at the age of 137 (Ex 6:20). Moses was 80 years old.
beginning of the exodus (Ex 7,7). Even if Coat was born in
the first year of stay and each parent fathered the following
generation in the year of his death, the stay could not
having been more than 350 years: Kohath 133 + Amram 137 + Moses
80. And Jochebed must have been much older than her
husband; to the extent that it is not, the stay must have
be even shorter.
How many tribes were there in Israel? Usually twelve tribes are mentioned.
, but the identification of the tribes varies: in
Dinah appears in place of Benjamin (Gen 29-30), and in
Chronicles the two halves of the tribe of Manasseh are counted
(1 Chronicles 2-3; 6:54-80). Some lists mention only ten tribes
(Dt 33.6ss; 2Sm 19.43); one gives eleven tribes (1
Kings 11:31); and in Gen 46:48ff there are thirteen.
How many Israelites? More than 600,000, counting only the men of
age of struggle, in the time of Moses (Ex 12,37; Nm 1,45-46). 22,273
firstborn males (Num. 3:43), making the average family include
27 males of fighting age. For the days of Ahab, only 7,000 in total (1
Kings 20:15).
Joshua 15:21-32 contradicts itself: it says there are 29 cities
in the list, which actually contains 36.
Jesse's children: how many? 1 Sam 16:10-11, 17:12, given eight. 1
Chronicles 2:13-15 says seven.
David era price? 50 silver shekels, dice 2
Samuel 24:24. 600 gold shekels, says 1 Chronicles 21:22-25.
Result of David's numbering: 1,300,000 (2 Sam 24:9)? EITHER
1,570,000 (1 Chronicles 21:5-6)?
Number of Solomon's stables: 40,000 (1 Kings 4:26)? Or 4000 (2
Chronicles 9:25)?
Number of Solomon's overseers: 3,300 (1 Kings 5:16)? or 3600
(2 Chronicles 2:2)?
Number of Solomon's officers: 1 Kings 9:23 says 550; 2 chronicles
8:10 given 250.
number of charioteers killed by david among the ammonites and
Syrians: 700 (2 Sam 10:18)? Or 7,000 (1 Chronicles 19:18)?
40,000 horsemen (Sam) or 40,000 feet (Cron)?
Height of temple columns: 18 cubits (1 Kings 7:15, 2 Kings
25:17, Jeremiah 52:23)? Or 35 cubits (2 Chronicles 3:15)?
Size of the molten sea at the Temple: 1 Kings 7:26 says 2000
robes 2 Chronicles 4:5 says 3000.
Gold brought from Ophir? 420 talents (1 Kings 9:28)? EITHER
450 talents (2 Chronicles 6:18)?
Ahaziah was 42 years old when he succeeded his father Joram (2 Chr 22, 2),
who died at the age of 40 (2 Chr 21,20). (But see also 2
Kings 8:26, which says he was 22 years old).
Baasha died in the 26th year of Asa's reign (1 Kings 16:6-8). built
a city ten years later (2 Chronicles 16:1).
How long was Omri's reign? 1 Kings 16:23 says twelve years,
beginning in the 31st year of Asa's reign. 1 Kings 16:28-29
says that Omri died in the 38th year of Asa's reign.
Joazim: How old was he when he began to reign? 2 Kings 24:8
given eighteen. 2 Chronicles 36:9 says eight.
Nebuzaradan's arrival in Jerusalem: 2 Kings 25:8 says in the
seventh day, Jer 52:12 says on the tenth day.
How big was Judah's army? 2 Samuel 24:9 says 500,000. 1Ch 21:5
dice 470,000.
The lists in Ezra 2 and Neh 7 are different (although supposedly
of the same) and the totals in both are incorrect.
Offering for the new month? Numbers 28:11 says two calves, one ram.
List of descendants of Cain is almost identical to the
descendants of Seth.
Cain > Enoch > Irad > Mehujael > Methuselah >
Lamech (Gen 4:17-18)
Seth > Enos > Cainan > Mahalaleel > Jared >
Enoch > Methuselah > Lamech (Gen 5:6-29)
Esau's wives: Genesis 26:35 says his wife Basemat was a daughter
of Elon the Hittite. But Gen 36:2-3 says that she was
daughter of Ishmael, sister of Nabayot, and that his wife
Adah was the daughter of Elon the Hittite. Genesis 28:9 says that
was his wife Mahalat who was the daughter of Ishmael and
sister of Nabayoth. Did he marry many sisters and wives
with identical names?
The sons of Eliphaz: Gen 36:11 and Gen 36:
different names. 1 Chronicles 1:35-36 lists seven.
Who was Moses' father-in-law? Ex 3:1, 4:18 says Jethro. ex 2:18
Reuel says. Numbers 10:29 says Raguel. Judges 4:11 says Hobab.
The Twelve Fathers of the Twelve Tribes: Gen 49:2-28 includes
Dan, but not Manasseh. Revelation 7:4-8 mentions Manasseh, but not
Dan.
Who was Sealtiel's father? Matthew 1:12, 1 Chronicles 3:17 says Jeconiah
. Luke 3:27 says Neri.
Who was Zerubbabel's father? Sealtiel (Haggai 1:1, 12, 14, 2:2,
23, Ezra 3:2, 8, 5:2 and Nehemiah 2:1)? Or Pedaiah (1 Chronicles
3:19)?
Matthew says that there were 14 generations from the captivity to Jesus,
but it only gives 13 (Matthew 1:12-17). Matthew 1:17 says it was
28 generations from David to Jesus, but Luke 3:23-31 gives
43.
Jotham is the grandson of Joram, say Matthew 1:8, 2 Kings 8:25,
15:32 But 2 Chronicles 3:11-13 inserts three more generations
between Jotham and Joram.
Lucas has the genealogy of Jesús Arfaxad > Cainán > Sala. Luke
3:35-36. But Genesis 10:24, Genesis 11:11-12, 1 Chronicles 1:18, 24
they omit Cainan.
Jesus is the son of Joseph, not of God (John 1:45, Luke 2:48:
Mary's testimony). The genealogies give Joseph as his father.
(Matthew 1:16, Luke 3:23). Peter, in Acts 2:29-30, says that God
swore to David that Christ would be the "fruit of
[David] the loins." Gabriel referred to Jesus as a son of
David (Luke 1:32; also Revelation 22:16). this couldn't have been
through Miriam, who was probably from Levi through Aaron (Luke
1:5, 36).
Jesus is a descendant of David through David's son Solomon, says
Matthew 1:6-7. But Luke 3:23-31 says that it is through the son of David,
Nathan.
Who was Joseph's father? Luke 3:23 says Eli, Matthew 1:16
Jacob Dice.
Jesus, quoted by Matthew, says that Zacharias (Zacharias) was
son of Barachias. This Zacarias was the supposed
author of the Book of Zechariah, and Jesus here
identifies him with the Zechariah who was immolated in the Temple (Matthew
23:35). But 2 Chronicles 24:20 says that Zacharias died in
the Temple was the son of Jehoiada. (Luke 11:51 not
says that Jesus identified which Zechariah was referring to)
contradictory premises are not true, therefore these are some of the many errors in the bible.
Scientific errors:
It is not possible for the Gihon River to flow from Mesopotamia and
encompass Ethiopia (Gen 2:13).
The name "Babel" does not come from the Hebrew word
balbal, "confuse", but from Babylonian bab-
ili, "gate of God", which is a translation of the
original Sumerian name Ka-dimirra (Gn 11,9).
Ur was not a Chaldean city until 1,000 years after Abraham (Gen.
11:28, 15:7).
Abraham pursued his enemies to "Dan" (Gen 14:14). that name was not
used geographically until after the conquest (Jdg 18:29).
Genesis 36:31, speaking of Jacob and Esau, lists the kings of Edom "before
no king reigned over the children of Israel." This
must have been written hundreds of years later, after Israel
had kings.
Joseph tells Pharaoh that he comes from the "land of the Hebrews" (Gen.
40:15). There was no such land until after the conquest
under Joshua.
Sources:
Con
#2
A. Plagiarism
- Suspicious of pro's format? Well, I was as well.
- Pro has plagiarized his ENTIRE round one often copying word for word from this old web forum post.
- It is really a long compilation of lies and strawmen made by an atheist named Mr. Richard Packham that pro simply copied and pasted.
- These are not his arguments, they were stolen gish gallop lists from and he should by default lose the debate.
Framework
- The Bible: Pro provided a fake definition of the bible that is not mentioned anywhere in the source they posted for it. I propose we simply refer to the Wikipedia article posted for it by pro.
- Pro defines many as a lot of something. How much is a lot? Who defines what a lot means?
- There are 31,102 verses in the Bible. Pro's list amounts to less than 1% of it and as I will show, they are simply composed of strawmen, misquoted and misrepresented verses. If this was a statistical relationship that would not even qualify as statistically significant which would be at least 5%. I suggest we use this as an objective standard.
Overview
- Pro plagiarized his entire argument. It is all just copied and pasted and presented as if a pro wrote it.
- I am simply now debating as practice for my reasons because pro should already lose debate just for his plagiarism. I will only be responding to the major misrepresentations and out-of-context quotes in round one.
A. "Contradictions"
- Pro plagiarized this entire list from this underground forum post
- We can discard all of this because it is just copied.
- For the sake of apologetics, I will respond to the worst lies here.
- On the floods, "these numbers refer to different things. Forty days refers to how long “the rain fell” (7:12, niv), and 150 days speaks of how long the flood “waters prevailed” (cf. 7:24)" [2] or how long the waters poured until they were subsided in Genesis 7:24. The tenth month" simply marks when the tops of the mountains became visible, not when the flood ended. This is the 10th month of the flood [4]. The waters continually began to decline subsequently, and biblical scholars document the timeline of events [4] making the total length of the flood 370 days (371 if counting the first day and last day as full days). In other words, there is no contradiction here, pro just took all the verses out of context and misrepresented what they were saying.
- Abraham's name was stated first due to prominence and not necessarily because he was the oldest. Terah lived for 70 years before he had any sons, not Abraham specifically, so Terah was 130 when Abraham was born and died at the age of 205 as you state. No contradiction here.
- There is no contradiction in Jacob's family. 70 people are mentioned in Gen 46:27 and 75 are mentioned by Stephen in Acts 7:14 because Steven "is quoting from the Septuagint text (Greek Translation) which includes 5 children born to Ephraim and Manasseh in the count." Steven was a Grecian Hellenic Jew and the text "would have been the commonly used translation among the Jews who lived in the then Greek-speaking world" [5].
- 1 Chronicles 2:13-15 lists a genealogy. One of Jesse's sons died childless [6]. "The only children of Jesse reported in the genealogy are those who were still alive or who still had descendants to keep track of." This is not uncommon in the Bible. The list in first Samuel documents all the children who were currently alive at the time.
- The 600 shekels of gold were paid for the lands surrounding the threshing floor and the 50 shekels of silver were only for "the oxen, equipment, and the threshing floor itself" No contradiction here.
- The difference between these figures of the "men of valor," not uncommon, is the difference in who was included. "Both calculations are correct according to the groups which were included and excluded from each report" [8].
- With respect to Solomon, these verses describe and are referring different types of stalls.
- I will simply quote Bible Historian Eric Lyons with respect to Joseph's father. "Joseph's father Matthew gives the genealogy of Jesus through Joseph, while Luke presents the genealogy of Jesus through His mother, Mary. Thus, Jacob is Joseph’s father (in Matthew 1:16), while Heli is Mary’s (in Luke 3:23)" [7].
"Scientific errors"
- Again, pro plagiarized this entire section from the same forum post.
- I shall address some of this merely for practice in round two for fun, but these are stolen arguments and can all be discarded.
Conclusion
- I have won by default because pro plagiarized everything. Any statements I address should be taken as a willingness to clear up biblical misinformation and not credence to his "argument."
Sources
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
- https://defendinginerrancy.com/bible-solutions/
- https://www.simplypsychology.org/p-value.html
- https://answersingenesis.org/bible-timeline/
- https://biblethingsinbibleways.wordpress.com/
- https://evidenceforchristianity.org/
- https://apologeticspress.org/who-was-josephs-father/
- https://defendinginerrancy.com/bible-solutions/
Round 2
Con
#4
A. Plagiarism
- Pro plagiarized his entire round one from this blog post. Concerning such actions, we can already discard the entire affirmative case.
- Extrapolating from this, pro has thus made no round one case, and forfeited round two, meaning I have won the debate by full forfeiture.
Overview
- I stated I would address some of the scientific points just for fun, but as pro has clearly run away in response to the revelation that my opponent's arguments are copied and pasted, so I think it is most prudent to end the debate on this note.
Conclusion
- Read pro's name. Is it an accurate description of him/her based on his or her actions in this debate? I believe this is the question that should be answered in voting decisions seeing as the allocation of points should be obvious.
Sources
- https://chaserhutch.wordpress.com/?s=contradiction [blog post pro plagiarized his affirmative case from]
Criterion
Pro
Tie
Con
Points
Winner
1 point(s)
Reason:
First, Pro does not meet BoP because there is next to no analysis of the presented contradictions.
Plagarism is ovbious, and a clear example of cheating.
Con is able to answer 8 of the contradictions, and it would be unreasonable to ask him to answer everything that was copy pasted.
Then Pro FFs after being called out.
There is no possible ballot for Pro.
Criterion
Pro
Tie
Con
Points
Winner
1 point(s)
Reason:
Since plagiarism cannot be counted as an original argument this is essentially full forfeit.
Criterion
Pro
Tie
Con
Points
Winner
1 point(s)
Reason:
Pro’s gish gallop was unreadable and then he forfeited in the second round.
Criterion
Pro
Tie
Con
Points
Winner
1 point(s)
Reason:
Novice once forfeited Round 1 out of 2 against me and the voters said it doesn't count as FF, guess it's only if it's Round 2 lmao
Thanks, it was indeed an interesting engagement
like the way your arguments have gone Novice.