Instigator / Pro
7
1500
rating
25
debates
42.0%
won
Topic
#3552
Islam is not a bad religion
Status
Finished
The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.
Winner & statistics
Better arguments
3
0
Better sources
2
2
Better legibility
1
1
Better conduct
1
0
After 1 vote and with 4 points ahead, the winner is...
rayhan16
Tags
Parameters
- Publication date
- Last updated date
- Type
- Standard
- Number of rounds
- 3
- Time for argument
- One day
- Max argument characters
- 20,000
- Voting period
- Two weeks
- Point system
- Multiple criterions
- Voting system
- Open
Contender / Con
3
1317
rating
267
debates
41.01%
won
Description
Islam is not a bad religion
Round 1
Pro
#1
Welcome to another one of my debates!
Before it starts, I am against an opponent who has a clearly dislike and bias against Islam, Muslims and the ideology of the entire religion. There is a debate called 'Islam is the truth' where my competitor is RationalMadman and if you look at the comment section, you will find some pretty nasty stuff said about my religion. Let us get started. I will try to clear up as many misconceptions about Islam.
Definition of Bad
This is from dictionary.com and the first meaning. The word bad means 'not good in any manner or degree.' Standard definition.
Islam overview
Islam is a religion like Christianity and Judaism which promotes the belief in God and His prophets and His book. A Muslim who believes in God, worships Him and is thankful for this life is following Islam. We have the same prophets as Christianity such as David, Noah, Jesus, Abraham etc. The only one we have that Christianity does not have is the Prophet Muhammed (PBUH) which we believe was the final prophet and messenger of God. We do not worship him. Only God. That is a quick summary on Islam.
Islam on Terrorism
Islam does not advocate terrorism in any way shape or form. Lets look at the dictionary.com definition of terrorism. 'the unlawful use of violence or threats to intimidate or coerce a civilian population or government, with the goal of furthering political, social, or ideological objectives.' That is that. Islam does not promote unlawful acts to promote violence and terror. The reason being is Muslims cannot fight/kill with another Muslim unless in self defence. There is a criterium in a holy war.
-Muslims are not allowed to kill innocent people
-Muslims are not allowed to harm trees nor the environment
-Muslims are not allowed to go to war unless the enemy attacks first
-A war must only be started by a religion leader.
If we look at the first point. Muslims are not allowed to kill innocent people. In dictionary.com, the term innocent means 'free from moral wrong; without sin; pure:'. Committing crimes is not innocent. So treason is not innocent. Murder is not not innocent. Raping is not innocent etc etc. An innocent person is simply one that has done no crime nor anything wrong. And Muslims are not allowed to kill these individuals.
Self defence is not terrorism. Lets get the definition for this from dictionary.com. Self defence is 'the act of defending one's person when physically attacked, as by countering blows or overcoming an assailant:' Defending yourself from a physical attack. Is this considered terrorism? If someone punches me in the face, am I not going to retaliate? And if I do retaliate then will I be committing a terrorist act? Or is it simply the case of me defending myself.
In conclusion to this point, terrorism is not allowed in Islam. If we go back to the statement and zoom in on the word 'bad', this is the opposite reflection of that. It suggests that Islam has morals and it does not allow terrorism.
Islam on Women
Women in Islam are considered to be very important. They are not to be treated like animals nor are they meant to be treated unfairly.
Traditionally, the husbands job is to be the breadwinner. The one who works, provides for the family financially, puts food on the table etc etc. And the woman also has a role to support the husband in doing so. Women are not forced to cook or to clean but just to support the husband as he goes out to work, make life a bit easier for him, for the children and most importantly for the wife herself.
Women have rights in Islam. 1400 years ago, rights were implemented.
For example,
According to Islam
-Women can work
-Women can vote
-Women can own property
-Women have a right to education
-Women can be exempt from all financial liabilities
-Women must be provided for
-Women must be respected
-The mother should be the most loved from the children 3x than the father, however the father should still be loved
There are many other rights.
Surah Nisa 4:34
Men are in charge of women by [right of] what Allah has given one over the other and what they spend [for maintenance] from their wealth. So righteous women are devoutly obedient, guarding in [the husband's] absence what Allah would have them guard. But those [wives] from whom you fear arrogance - [first] advise them; [then if they persist], forsake them in bed; and [finally], strike them. But if they obey you [once more], seek no means against them. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted and Grand.
Let us debunk this quote. Men are in charge of women over what Allah has given the man over the other. The man naturally is more stronger, is better emotionally than women etc. This does not mean women are weak, just the man is more capable of the providing side than the woman. The woman has been given a gift, to give birth. A woman has many things over a man too such as this as well as being able to mentally mature at an earlier age etc.
Then we move on to the 'beating' section. In Islam, men are not allowed to hurt or cause pain to the woman, men are not allowed to leave a mark and men are not allowed to strike the face. If Muslims are meant to strike a woman, then these rules must be followed. And if these rules are followed, then it results in a light tap from the man. The basis of this verse is saying, if a woman is arrogant first tell them to stop then leave bed and stop sleeping with them, and finally tap them. But if they stop being arrogant then do not do anything to them. Simple explanation.
Now we can move on to the polygamy part of Islam.
Surah Nisa 4:3
then marry those that please you of [other] women, two or three or four. But if you fear that you will not be just, then [marry only] one
Why are men allowed to marry 4 wives and not the other way round? Let me tell you. If the man wants to marry 4 wives then he must be financially capable of providing for all of them. He must also be spending the same amount of time and treating them all the same with respect and dignity. If a woman marries 4 men, there will be a DNA issue. Back when the Quran was revealed, the verse came out. DNA was not a thing back then, so how could you tell who the father was? Now that DNA is a thing, it still does not make it right. The reason being, 4 men in a household is a bit too much firepower. They could be abusive, as men are naturally the aggressors, they could hurt the wife if they do not get what they want etc. Plus the woman will have to provide for all 4 of those men, plus herself plus (lets say each man has 2 children, so 8 children in total) her 8 children. Women are more emotionally incapable of doing this. There are some exceptions. but I can generalize because I am talking about the majority here.
But then it does say that if men cannot cope with marrying 4, then only marry 1. If they are not financially stable then only marry one. If they cannot handle it then only marry one. This is a nice Segway to my next point
Marriage in Islam
Marriage in Islam is very disrespected by many non-Muslims. Islam teaches to have morals. In Islam, men cannot be with women alone because this can lead to sins happening. So if a man wants to marry a lady then he must go to her father first and consult him as he knows the mans intentions. Then if the father accepts. and the wife to be, accepts then the man will have to announce the wedding. He must then pay for the wedding and if the wife does not want to pay then she does not need to. The wife can also ask for a dowry. This is a payment of some sort that the man has to give the wife for reassurance. She can ask for a new car, £10,000 and a block of gold and she gets it. She has the right to divorce. If she divorces, she keeps everything of her dowry. As she is married no man can touch her and this is a great Segway.
Respect to Women in Islam
A man cannot even touch a woman if he is a non-mahram. This is to show respect. Women are not objects.
Hijab/Niqab/Coverings
Con may think that women are oppressed when they wear a covering. But this is simply not true. Women are expressing their modesty. When you are on the streets, and if a woman is there, a mans instinct will tell him to go up to that woman. If he does then he wants her number and ultimately sex. Deny it as much as you want, it is true. Then if a man does not get it, he will catcall, he will abuse her and may even end up raping her. The covering of the face, the hair etc denies a man that woman's true beauty. The man will not even look at her and she can get on with her day. The hijab and niqab are barriers between oneself and the rest of them. It protects that woman and gives her confidence. It does not oppress her.
I think I have listed a lot of good things about Islam and hope that Con (The Islam Hater) will take these things in and complete his Shahadah and become Muslim, as he was destined to be!
Thank you.
Con
#2
Well, those arguments were pathetic.
Changing the word from striking women to tapping them? That thing doesnt even deserve a response.
Women will get raped less in islam because they are covered? Okay. That sounds historically accurate. We dont need islam for that. Women can cover themselves even without islam.
Father must consent for the girl to marry? I am just hoping that I read that wrong.
Man can have 4 wives? But wife cant have 4 husbands? That doesnt sound like good or bad thing. Just something that you say to make people think you are good at 1st grade math.
Now, after we are done with these arguments, the simple counter argument for all of them is that we dont need islam to enforce any of that. It can be enforced and improved without islam. And this is under assumption that those things you said are actually viable and good.
Now lets explain why islam sucks.
1) The Contradiction In Logic Of Islam
Islam says:
A) God created everything and decides everything
Then islam says further:
B) Those who dont believe in Allah and do bad things will burn eternally.
Why would Allah punish people for doing bad things that Allah wanted and determined for them to do? Does your God have autism? It is impossible for a man to create a decision if everything, including decisions, was created by Allah.
Islam says:
A) God is merciful
Islam also says:
B) God will send people to a place where they will burn eternally
These two are obvious contradictions, as God created people evil, knew that they will be evil, and now wants to torture them forever because of it. There is nothing merciful about this act. The merciful act would be to either not create these people at all, either destroy them immediatelly, either place them in circumstance where they cant commit evil, either change them so that they become good.
Allah decides who will be good and who will be evil, so the entire point of punishment becomes retarded.
Islam says:
A) Allah gives temptations to see how people will act
Why would Allah tempt people if he already knows how they will act? What is there to see? This just confirms that your God either doesnt exist either has autism.
Those were some of the logical problems of islam.
Now, moving on. Lets assume that you somehow solve the previous problems.
2) Unnecesarry religion
We dont need the repulsive religion like islam. We dont want it. We dont like it. We dont want to see your mosques being built anywhere. If you need to pray, pray in the toilet.
Why would I support the muslims? I find your religion disgusting.
You constantly provoke and ask for trouble through the practice of the islam spreading your lies to the youth.
If muslim radicals continue with their practice of islamic provocations, the rest of the world could give a response which would liberate the entire world from islam.
You think you can fight the rest of the world? Why dont you attack every non muslim country today? Attack them so they can destroy you quickly.
We dont want islam in our country. We dont want it practiced anywhere. We despise it. You cannot convince us that you are normal.
You are a deluded muslim. You deserve nothing but pure hate. You will not contaminate our countries with your retarded belief.
If you want to live in our country, you should never tell anyone that you are a muslim. You should be ashamed of it every day for the rest of your life like you deserve.
If you want to pray, we have public toilets. You can pray there.
I hope that you get it through your islamic radical head. We dont want your pollution present in our country. Either change religion either pray in the toilet. Thats how much you get from us.
Round 2
Pro
#3
It is absolutely pathetic. I am embarrassed. I can clearly sense that you have never debated before nor have you got the potential to debate. Not only did you give no evidence for your claims, but you acted like an extremist, an islamophobia and you will lose the debate if you carry on. Will that hurt your ego? Of course it will. Now let a 16 year old destroy you intellectually.
Changing the word from striking women to tapping them? That thing doesn't even deserve a response.
No word has been changed. If a man cannot hurt a woman, then he cannot cause pain to them, simple tap.
Women will get raped less in Islam because they are covered? Okay. That sounds historically accurate. We dont need Islam for that. Women can cover themselves even without Islam.
I do not think I made this claim. I said it would be less likely for women to get raped. You are saying that women can cover that without Islam, why don't they?
Father must consent for the girl to marry? I am just hoping that I read that wrong.
Not only the father, but the woman herself. What is so bad about that? The father is a male and the man who wants to marry is a male so the father knows the males intentions.
Man can have 4 wives? But wife cant have 4 husbands? That doesn't sound like good or bad thing. Just something that you say to make people think you are good at 1st grade math.
You clearly are too ignorant to even read my points.
Now, after we are done with these arguments, the simple counter argument for all of them is that we dont need Islam to enforce any of that. It can be enforced and improved without Islam. And this is under assumption that those things you said are actually viable and good.
I don't know why you think I want Islam to take over the world and make people live in misery. I do not know why you think that I want Islam to enforce this to non-Muslims. Where are you getting this idea from?
1) The Contradiction In Logic Of IslamIslam says:A) God created everything and decides everythingThen Islam says further:B) Those who dont believe in Allah and do bad things will burn eternally.
If you do not believe in the one who created you, then why are you expecting to go to heaven? Its fine, you do not believe, so it does not concern you. Not a contradiction. Yes Allah has already predestined things such as where you live etc. But your actions ultimately decide whether you go to heaven or hell. But you do not believe, so this does not concern you. Not a contradiction
Islam says:A) God is mercifulIslam also says:B) God will send people to a place where they will burn eternally
Yes God is all merciful. However why would He use His mercy on people who do not believe and do not repent on sins. Why would he be merciful to ignorance? Not a contradiction.
These two are obvious contradictions, as God created people evil, knew that they will be evil, and now wants to torture them forever because of it. There is nothing merciful about this act. The merciful act would be to either not create these people at all, either destroy them immediately, either place them in circumstance where they cant commit evil, either change them so that they become good.
God never created people evil. You should know this. People are making themselves evil. If you murder someone then did God make you do that or are you using your own free will to murder someone? It also says in the Quran that killing one person is like killing the whole of mankind. So God told you not to murder, and you did anyway.
Allah decides who will be good and who will be evil, so the entire point of punishment becomes retarded.
Wrong. You need to do way more research if you want to debate me with actual facts and quotes.
We dont need the repulsive religion like islam. We dont want it. We dont like it. We dont want to see your mosques being built anywhere. If you need to pray, pray in the toilet.Why would I support the muslims? I find your religion disgusting.You constantly provoke and ask for trouble through the practice of the islam spreading your lies to the youth.If muslim radicals continue with their practice of islamic provocations, the rest of the world could give a response which would liberate the entire world from islam.You think you can fight the rest of the world? Why dont you attack every non muslim country today? Attack them so they can destroy you quickly.We dont want islam in our country. We dont want it practiced anywhere. We despise it. You cannot convince us that you are normal.You are a deluded muslim. You deserve nothing but pure hate. You will not contaminate our countries with your retarded belief.If you want to live in our country, you should never tell anyone that you are a muslim. You should be ashamed of it every day for the rest of your life like you deserve.If you want to pray, we have public toilets. You can pray there.I hope that you get it through your islamic radical head. We dont want your pollution present in our country. Either change religion either pray in the toilet. That's how much you get from us.
The rest is just hate speech. Not only is he this ignorant, but he also has not even read my arguments. So I hope from all my friends of this debate site, that he gets humiliated and I hope that you all vote me. It is ignorance at its finest. I do not care if he calls me a deluded person nor a retard. All I care about is hurting his ego and winning this debate.
I challenged him and he accepted. Let us see what happens
Islam is a beautiful religion. It is the reason why there are 1.8 Billion Muslims in the world, the west is now finally seeing more of the truth and Islam is the most highly converted religion in the world right now. It will be the biggest religion in 2070, something which Con despises.
Not only does Con not know how a debate works, but he intentionally wants to degrade Islam and hurt me. I do not care for his words, I do not care for his opinion. I hope that all voters can see what he has done and are on my side. Please read his arguments carefully. And then read mine.
I want to know what his religion is so Con, if you are reading this, what do you follow?
Con
#4
Well, it seems that you fail to understand that free will contradicts to the idea that everything was determined by the God.
Your so called refutations show that you dont understand the basics of your own religion.
Now, as a muslim you are obviously intellectually incapable to reason.
Spreading islam is like spreading stupidity. So thats one reason why I fight against it. Muslims are a threat to worlds sanity.
Did you really think I was gonna debate you and correct all of your logical mistakes? That would take years.
I simply explained it to you. We dont accept muslims.
Why is it so hard for you to understand that someone doesnt want you in his country?
You seem to not know when you should leave.
You should leave far away. Build a mosque out of your poop and pray in it. Live in your poop just like that pig Allah you adore so much.
Your book the Quran is only good when a man is in rush to the toilet and there is no paper towel.
Get it already. You are an undesirable human being. Will you leave already? In this debate, I have the last word. Therefore, go and pray in your poop. Thats where you belong.
Round 3
Pro
#5
Well, it seems that you fail to understand that free will contradicts to the idea that everything was determined by the God.
Clearly not. As humans have free will, they are designed to do whatever their brains tell them to do. Everything being pre destined is not a contradiction because the pre destiny is without ones actions, as I have already said. So the pre destiny does not take into account the actions of the individual. This should make sense to a normal human being, but of course Con is not that, maybe a bit of a special kid.
Your so called refutations show that you dont understand the basics of your own religion.Now, as a muslim you are obviously intellectually incapable to reason.Spreading islam is like spreading stupidity. So thats one reason why I fight against it. Muslims are a threat to worlds sanity.Did you really think I was gonna debate you and correct all of your logical mistakes? That would take years.I simply explained it to you. We dont accept muslims.Why is it so hard for you to understand that someone doesn't want you in his country?You seem to not know when you should leave.You should leave far away. Build a mosque out of your poop and pray in it. Live in your poop just like that pig Allah you adore so much.Your book the Quran is only good when a man is in rush to the toilet and there is no paper towel.Get it already. You are an undesirable human being. Will you leave already? In this debate, I have the last word. Therefore, go and pray in your poop. That's where you belong.
I love hate speech. The reason why I love it, is because they think that they are achieving something. However it does not affect me in any way. I actually feel more power when people hate on my religion, it is simply a lovely thing. So keep on hating and I will be more fuelled with it.
Now you are struggling to think. You can either be a slave to society or a slave to God. You are more than a slave to society right now as you are dictated by people to wear clothes that are socially acceptable, you have been influenced by tommy Robinson and the edl and the islamophobes and are essentially a slave to them all.
What make it think it is your country. Do you own it? Do you have a share in it? Or is it just because you are white, you then think you have some sort of authority over me or any other non-white person? Because this is simply not the case. A white man owns the streets, not you. A man owns your house if it is on mortgage and rent. This man is not you. However even if you own your house, which I doubt you do as you live in a council flat, then you do something that is illegal and that house is then taken away. So you don't really own your house.
You probably do not have kids, no woman wants to get with you and I find it canny that you are sitting in your room, with that dusty keyboard and the postered wall in front of you which says something along the lines of 'WE HATE MUSLIMS GET EM OUT' or something like that.
I do not care if you do not want me in my country. As I was born here, it is my country. People like you need to get out of my country.
Mosques are being built everywhere in my country, and I am proud of that. In fact, I went to the mosque today, prayed and went home. No violence and no issues.
I don't know who you are signalling we to. Because it is only you that doesn't accept Muslims and a minority more. However, the mayor of London is Muslim, maybe you want him out and all. But he controls a city. What you gonna do about that? Cry.
In this debate, you may have the last word yet I will have the last laugh. In Sha Allah the voters vote for me and see how truly pathetic you are hiding behind a keyboard, throwing insults at a TEENAGER How pathetic must your life be.
I hope, voters, you see through this guy, he clearly does not know how to debate, it is his first one so take it easy on him guys but please do not fall for his lies. I truly believe that there are some genuine people on here that don't care for his hate preaching and I hope that all of you can vote me to make it a bit sweeter.
Thanks for reading this debate, Con has clearly tried to humiliate my religion where he has gotten humiliated himself. He doesn't even know how to debate, bless him
Con
#6
As I said, the last word in the debate will be mine. Time to finish this.
"Clearly not. As humans have free will, they are designed to do whatever their brains tell them to do. Everything being pre destined is not a contradiction because the pre destiny is without ones actions, as I have already said. So the pre destiny does not take into account the actions of the individual."
Who created their brains? Who created their thoughts which led to action?
Quran says: Allah created everything.
The word "everything" includes thoughts and decisions and actions. Thoughts cannot create themselves by themselves. Someone had to create them. Your stupidity makes it unable for you to understand this.
So according to you, Allah created evil people willingly just to torture them forever after they die? As I said before, and you failed to refute, a much better solution would be not to create them at all.
I know that you as a muslim have the impulsive need to torture people, so it is no wonder that you proposed eternal torture as the best possible solution (I just dont know what such solution actually solves. Nobody benefits from it...).
Your failed logic of religion demonstrates why islam is an ideological virus that damages mental capacity and has negative effects on humanity in total.
You have repeatedly demonstrated your need for violence. As every single chapter in Quran describes the ways Allah will torture people, it is no wonder you picked some of that while reading that filthy book.
Why dont you reveal yourself for who you really are. As I said before, muslims only act peacefully when they are a minority. Even then, they cause problems.
I know what you really are.
You are nothing but a disgusting creature that should live far away from society, in your own piss, so you can pray to Allah and be more like him.
This part of debate ends here. The muslim that tried to convince me to believe his lies about peaceful islam has failed in his efforts.
Finally, he failed to prove that we need islam. If we dont need something and if something is not useful to us, then it just wastes our energy if we try to sustain it. Hence, its bad.
The idea that we need islam to prevent rape and immorality - such idea is utterly stupid.
We dont need islam to tell us that murder and rape are wrong. We know that already.
Since we dont need islam for that, it follows that we dont need islam at all, since those were the only arguments from this islamist debater here as to why we need islam.
If something is not beneficial to us and if we dont need it, it goes to say that it wastes our energy, so its bad.
So islam is bad.
This is the end of their filthy story.
The gross lies spread by the muslims decieve the weak, but cant outpower those with the strength of will. Power to the anti-islamic union! Long live the resistance! Never give up against the muslims! We are the majority!!!!
Criterion
Pro
Tie
Con
Points
Better arguments
3 point(s)
Better sources
2 point(s)
Better legibility
1 point(s)
Better conduct
1 point(s)
Reason:
Con is some anti-Islam freak apparently. Totally bonkers. Pro makes a measured case from the definition of bad and various tenants of the Islamic religion. Con tries to posit some potential contradictions. The free will paradox was good and is something that I would personally argue, but the mercy/condemnation contradiction was self evidently much weaker. Con then goes on some anti-Islam tirade so...okay. I like con because they are funny but such rhetoric only detracts from the contender's argumentation. Pro seemingly refutes both contradictions, more anti-Islam speech from con who has dropped all of pro's arguments. The conduct wasn't great on both sides, but con was obviously significantly worse. I hope they aren't banned, but this may be the unfortunate case. The instigator wins, and a first win is always the best one.
why is eternal damnation necessary for failed souls? why not simply extinguish them painlessly? why enact the highest form of sadistic vengeance when you knew they would fail? These are all questions a religious person needs to be able to answer.
I understand that. Most atheists understand this. Many of them just don't understand how free will is justified with the amount of suffering it creates, most people would rather not be born than giving the test of life is Allah is real. I'm sure you can understand an atheist thinking this is evil right? God is punishing people for ignorance when he KNOWS they're going to be ignorant. How do you think that is justified by free will? what is Gods argument? why is free will so important even allowing eternal damnation for probably 99% of the billions of humans in history? and he knew this would happen. How is it justified? why is free will so valuable?
It is very simple
Al-Qadr is the belief in predestination. This means that Allah already knows everything that will happen, and nothing happens unless it is according to Allah's will. However, this does not mean that the choices people make are not free choices. Instead, it means that Allah knows what people will chose to do.
Admittedly i think he had some very strong points in the first round, i think you refuted them quite poorly. But he just gave up in round two.
"Why would Allah punish people for doing bad things that Allah wanted and determined for them to do?"
Your response to this was basically, " but free will". I think its a genuinely good question that needs a more thorough response as to why God lets us do these things when he already knows the results of the test. Outside of just proclaiming we have free will, which science itself doubts.
Thanks, please pick the right choice. Don't fuel the racists
I just unlocked voting privileges so i will likely give this debate a vote. I will be as non biased as i possibly can be.
I have all the time now compared to a few months ago when I was in school.
But the Jesus debate I wanted to finish as quickly as possible so I could move on to this one. This guy has truly lost it
You're motivated today rayhan. I've never seen someone pump out arguments so fast xD
See you when the voting finishes. Don't hide :)
You pray to magical god help you win the debate? You should better pray to the voters. They exist, and actually affect that.
You want to destroy me intellectually? Well, go ahead. I would really like to see that.
Also in the debate, you dont seem to understand what a contradiction is. I wanted to explain, but you sounded really pathetic so I decided not to go easy on you.
Also, I am going to pray now.
Thanks for the reminder!
Without you, I would be late, thanks
Seems like you are new here. Would you like me to destroy you intellectually? You do not know how a debate works nor how to be a human being. Have some respect. Have some shame. I look forward to your second arguement
Calling for backup already? You didnt even last one round.
Look at this guy's arguements
Lovely stuff! I cannot wait, I am literally so excited
A muslim challenging me to a debate? Okay, lets see what you have to say and then I will explain to you.
I cannot wait to do this!!!