Instigator / Pro
7
1487
rating
31
debates
35.48%
won
Topic
#3557

maximum security prisoners should be used as slaves

Status
Finished

The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.

Winner & statistics
Better arguments
0
6
Better sources
4
4
Better legibility
2
2
Better conduct
1
2

After 2 votes and with 7 points ahead, the winner is...

Novice_II
Parameters
Publication date
Last updated date
Type
Standard
Number of rounds
3
Time for argument
Two days
Max argument characters
10,000
Voting period
One month
Point system
Multiple criterions
Voting system
Open
Contender / Con
14
1890
rating
98
debates
93.37%
won
Description

Prisoners such as rapists, child rapists, murderers, serial killers, and people along those lines, should essentially be used as slaves by the people, for the people, to fix our roads, to work for us for free to pay back something to the communities they took so much from, instead of getting free breakfast in bed and a TV. Being a leech to the tax payers' money. If we decide to keep them alive, why not make them useful towards society through means of hard labour?

Prison is torture no matter how you turn it. Work or no work, its torture. So using prisoners as slaves probably will not be much different for them, except they will be doing something useful.

Also, this argument makes no sense:
"We do immoral things therefore we ought to do more immoral things? This obviously doesn't follow."
When you do an immoral thing you are saying that immoral things are allowed and that there is no reason for others not to do more of them if they desire, just as you did more of them when you desired. Do you claim you have special rights that others dont have?

"I realise rehabilitation prisons work better for crime rates, visitation rates, and the economy".

i intended to say this in comparison to how the current prison system is run. I did later say that may not be the case compared to a slave labour prison system. Understandable vote nonetheless

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@K_Michael

"It already runs at a deficit?"

the current prison system. not a slave labour program. The slave labour program could bring in profits but the overall prison system could still be ran at a deficit if its only a small sector of prisoners being used as slave labour. I should have brought up the gulags. They certainly weren't run at a deficit. I'm not going to continue though. It's a troll debate, so I don't particularly care about the vote or anything of the sort.
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"The main point that didn't come up imo is that maxsec prisoners are maxsec for a reason. Usually they aren't placed there for their crimes, but to prevent more violence in the prison itself."
-
That's on con to point out. If that's the case, why would I build his argument for him? It sounds more like you voted based on what you would have done and the flaws in my argument that you think you could have countered as opposed to what actually happened. All you really point out is the fact that you already agreed with Con before reading the debate and debated vicariously through him.

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@Ehyeh

"He didn't prove it would now be run at a deficit."
It already runs at a deficit?
You said that the federal prison system currently makes 5.8 billion and loses 182 billion every year. So unless you think the relatively small number of maxsec inmates being forced to perform slave labor could make up 177 BILLION dollars, they would STILL run at a deficit.

The main point that didn't come up imo is that maxsec prisoners are maxsec for a reason. Usually they aren't placed there for their crimes, but to prevent more violence in the prison itself. This includes inmates who commit assault/murder in prison, high profile cases where they're likely to get murdered themselves if put in a regular prison, and gang members and leaders. This is a very different category from the run of the mill rapists and murderers that you two kept bringing up. This is a class of prisoners that are extra difficult to work with, and can barely be trusted to eat in a cafeteria together without killing each other, much less doing jobs with tools and the like. My expectation would be that if there were any easy profit to be made employing maxsec prisoners in addition to the prisoners already doing $5.8 billion of work already, it would already be being done.

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@K_Michael

"The main point that PRO brings up is that the prison system runs at a massive deficit and this could be alleviated by slave labor. The most relevant counterargument in my opinion on the part of CON as this is a economically motivated argument was that of COST. Through a quote, CON brings up that there are costs associated with employing prison inmates in addition to the regular costs of just keeping them in prison, such as transportation and training. Pro mainly dismisses this argument saying that without statistics it doesn't prove anything."

Well yeah, he didn't prove anything. He didn't prove it would now be run at a deficit. The debate, as you said, was simply speculation. I cant combat the point as it's literally impossible to find statistics on it. Same for him. Its not like that information is laying around on the net and i intentionally ignored it, it simply isn't. He was doing guesswork like me too but my guess work is unjustified and his isn't?

If you give me the heavier burden of proof (understandably) then i admittedly lost the debate. If you don't, i cant see a loss as being justified.

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@3RU7AL

That sounds like an amazing idea until a prisoner intentionally sets his bed on fire to kill himself.

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@Ehyeh

perhaps something more like this,
https://youtu.be/IlaNKKHzNKQ

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@3RU7AL

That's a really good video, thank you for sharing. If someone has no arms and legs they cannot riot. Although on a personal note im very much in favour of rehabilitatory justice. A vengeance based justice system stops pretty much nothing. A fire will not put out a fire, therefore only the opposite of hate will rid it.

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@Ehyeh

placing all prisoners in hospital beds tends to cut down on riots
https://youtu.be/_flYlbBpSok

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@3RU7AL

Its a troll debate. I like thinking of extreme ideas and seeing how far i can take them.

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@Ehyeh

if you don't believe in human-rights for all humans, you don't believe in human-rights

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@Intelligence_06

A slave is someone who has minimal rights of their own, or becomes property. There is of course property laws, hence you can have laws against treatment of slaves as has been the case through most of history.

You mean labor? You can’t just call them slaves.

Please fix this road near vulnerable people.