Instigator / Pro
7
1500
rating
25
debates
42.0%
won
Topic
#3558

Islam is more true than Christianity

Status
Finished

The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.

Winner & statistics
Better arguments
3
6
Better sources
2
4
Better legibility
2
2
Better conduct
0
2

After 2 votes and with 7 points ahead, the winner is...

Novice_II
Parameters
Publication date
Last updated date
Type
Standard
Number of rounds
3
Time for argument
One day
Max argument characters
20,000
Voting period
Two weeks
Point system
Multiple criterions
Voting system
Open
Contender / Con
14
1890
rating
98
debates
93.37%
won
Description

Islam is more true than Christianity

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@Dynasty

Accept the challenge of the debate, make one and I will accept.

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@rayhan16

Christianity is more true than Islam because pedophilia is wrong. That's your logic there.

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@FLRW

Have I answered your misconceptions?

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@FLRW

Glad you have more misconceptions let me answer them for you.

1. Backbone verse

Does not say that semen/sperm comes from the backbone. It is gushing water. Only 2-5% of the fluid are actually semen. The rest is a mix of different things, comes from the seminal gland etc etc. Plus, ribs is not the correct translated word. It is actually loins.

2. Flat Earth

[79:30] He made the earth egg-shaped.

[Q39:5] He created the heavens and the earth truthfully. He rolls the night over the day, and rolls the day over the night.*- Meaning it is not flat.

Plus the verse that you mentioned 88:20, means the earth is spread out, not flat. The earth is not flat.

3. Seven Earths

Different opinions on this verse as it is only mentioned once.

https://quran.com/en/at-talaq/12

That is the verse and it says 'layers;. So it may be referring to the different layers of earth like the heavens. And scientifically, there are 7 layers. However as it is only mentioned once, there is not enough information.

4. Sun and Moon chasing each other

Where does it say the sun and moon chase each other around the earth? But offensive for you to even say this. 'Each is travelling in an orbit of their own.' 36:40

5. Human embryos

The word 'alaqa' is also defined as a leech like substance. This is also true according to science.

6. Sky would fall

What is the contradiction here?

7. Stars being missiles

Untrue. Stars keep the devil/s away.

I have to pray now, let me know if you have any more misconceptions for me to answer. Have a great day

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@rayhan16

Ok, thanks. I have a couple more.
The Qur'an claims that semen is formed between the backbone and ribs (Surah 86, verses 6-7), that the earth is flat (Surah 88, verse 20), that there are seven earths (surah 65, verse 12), that the sun and the moon chase each other around the earth (surah 36, verses 38-40), that human embryos are blood-clots (surah 22, verse 5), that the sky would fall on the earth if Allah didn't hold it up (surah 22, verse 65), and that stars are missiles that Allah uses to shoot demons who try to sneak into heaven (surah 37, verses 6-10, and surah 67, verse 5).

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@FLRW

Glad to help.

It says 41:11- 'Then He turned towards the heaven'

This means that the universe was already there. Good try, misconception however

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@rayhan16

How can Muslims believe the Quran is true if it has major errors like saying the Earth was made before the universe in Surah 41:9-12?

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@Ehyeh

Clearly we have a difference of opinion.

Now what Muslims believe is when the day of judgement is going to come, Jesus is going to say to those who worshipped him to 'get out of his sight'. He gave a message and the people corrupted it. Obviously you will not believe that, however this is just a warning. If you do not believe it, then we will see when it comes to it.

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@rayhan16

God is omnipresent. He has no "seat" lol
Once more you can only have this thought through the illusion of duality, separateness. Its simply a metaphor.

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@Ehyeh

I will try to watch the video tomorrow, gotta watch Arsenal vs Orlando City today. Prediction Gabriel Jesus gonna score a double

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@Ehyeh

How about that last part, where is God in heaven? Where does he sit?

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@rayhan16

It is an interesting conversation. But it isn't contradictory in the least once we don't see God as separate from Jesus. God sent himself through Jesus.

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@rayhan16

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hg0c32KbA-g&t=2s

its a long video, you can put it in 1.5x speed if you find it long.

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@Ehyeh

Can you send the video again please? I seem to have lost it

Secondly,
Islam is completely different. These things that we believe in, the 5 pillars, these are the fundamental things which are not confusing, everyone thinks the same on them and are explicitly said that a human must do these things at the very basics. However, the trinity is nothing like these. Each Christian gives a different answer. I have had the EED argument, I have had the water argument, I have had the forefathers argument, I have had the body argument, so much. This is a fundamental belief. It depends on salvation. Name me 1 thing in Islam that is like this and depends on salvation. There is none.

This illusion argument as well. Seems like Christians have gotten confused. Everyone is human temporarily, we then die. Jesus did the same. Everyone is born, Jesus was the same. He was a man yes, but had humanistic qualities. The argument of being 100% human and 100% God is a paradox in itself. Jesus is Gods creation. The water analogy-https://www.apostolictheology.org/2014/02/why-trinity-is-not-like-water-in-any-way.html

Yes I agree with the last bit to an extent. People do change religions. I watch speakers corner, debate videos. I do not think 1 Christian video that I watched, the Christian has come off better than the Muslim. And these videos are on different channels. some being non-Muslim channels too. I pick the religion that makes the most sense, the book in which has no contradictions, no errors etc.

No one knows the authors of the 4 gospels, these are anonymous. The earliest manuscript for the new testament was in the 4th century. We can see errors and contradictions in the Bible, Jesus does not admit to being God, nor did any Prophet worship him. There is no trinity in the Bible however Christians constantly are like its there.

Muslim : Who is God?
Christian : Jesus
Muslim : Is Jesus the son of Mary.
Christian : Yes
Muslim : Who created Mary?
Christian : God.
Muslim : Who is God?
Christian: Jesus
Muslim : Jesus is the begotten son.
Christian : Yes
Muslim : Who is his father?
Christian : God.
Muslim : Who is God?
Christian : Jesus.
Muslim : Jesus is a servant of God.
Christian : Yes
Muslim : Jesus died on the cross?
Christian : Yes
Muslim : Who resurrected him?
Christian : God.
Muslim : Is Jesus a messenger.
Christian : Yes
Muslim : Who sent him?
Christian : God.
Muslim : Who is God?
Christian : Jesus.
Muslim: Did Jesus worship while on earth.
Christian: Yes
Muslim: Whom did he worship?
Christian: God.
Muslim : Who is God?
Christian : Jesus.
Muslim : Did God have a beginning?
Christian : No
Muslim: Then who was born on 25/DEC?
Christian : Jesus.
Muslim : Is Jesus God.
Christian : Yes
Muslim : Where's God?
Christian : In heaven.
Muslim : How many Gods are there in heaven?
Christian : Only one God.
Muslim : Where's Jesus?
Christian : He is seated on the right hand of his father.
Muslim : Then how many are they in heaven?
Christian : Only one God.
Muslim : Then how many seats?
Christian : one
Muslim : where's Jesus?
Christian: Seated next to God.

This is an interesting conversation

Jesus was only a human temporarily. His identity as a human was an illusion, as he was more than his body, more than the qualities of the body he temporarily possessed, he was a man but MORE than just a human and the qualities of man. Jesus isn't separate from God, so he did indeed get his power from god but God is Jesus, so therefore he god his powers from himself... Simply because he talks about God in separate pieces for coherence doesn't mean he was. My water analogy still stands. Just as water can be in separate states doesn't mean it isn't one.

Again you will never change your mind on this topic. The thing is if you were born a Christian you would agree with all of this. You only refuse to see it because you were born into a different religion. I say this as someone who is not even a christian.

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@rayhan16

I don't understand your salvation argument. I would agree with it, i would just say Islam isn't much different. At least an atheist wouldn't believe it anymore than Christianity. Its filled with tales of flying horses lifting Muhammad up in flames too. Its filled with morals which no one in their right mind would make a maxim in the modern day aswell. Much of shari'ah for instance believe you should have the punishment for death for homosexuality and adultery, all things incompatible with democratic values.

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@rayhan16

That's your opinion. Catholics have their own doctrine and philosophy which overcomes these problems and so do the Quakers. Watch the meister eckhart video....please lol

If you truly care to get the best answer to this possible and not to simply try to convert people to Islam, then you would watch it if you care for the truth. It would truly refute all your arguments in a manner you would not be able to respond.

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@Ehyeh

It is not accurate comparing something which is part of humanity to God. God is above humanity. He is the creator.

Now if Jesus relies on God for his existence, how is he God. Think about it. Muslims believe that God has not inherited these powers or attributes. They have been there with Him, always. Jesus is not an attribute, he was a human. You may disagree, but this is facts. He was a human. Jesus relied on the father, the father never relied on anything else. Tell me what makes sense?

Also you never answered the part where I talked about, this is a huge issue and my salvation relies upon it. Why is it so argued upon, it should be categorically clear otherwise the Christian God is selfish and tells people to rely on blind faith.

https://www.sciencealert.com/a-new-state-of-matter-can-be-solid-and-liquid-at-the-same-time

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@rayhan16

"The same water cannot be solid, liquid and gas at the same time, but this is what the trinity is."

wrong.

https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=52562.0
EVEN if water couldn't (which it can) be all 3 at once, why could GOD not be? God is beyond these things.

" If we remove the father, the other 2 parts of the trinity won't. Jesus relies on the Father. Now if Jesus relies on the father, to do whatever, to live, to do miracles etc, then he is dependant. And if Jesus is dependant, then he is not God. It is as simple as that."

Yes, Jesus relies on God. But God is still himself. Just like God relies on himself for his own powers too! you can only think this thought as you still see God as separate pieces.

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@Ehyeh

Bad analogy.

The same water cannot be solid, liquid and gas at the same time, but this is what the trinity is. All 3 components are God, fully divine to 100% , yet Jesus is 100% human as well. If we remove Jesus, the father will exist. If we remove the holy spirit, the father will exist. If we remove the father, the other 2 parts of the trinity won't. Jesus relies on the Father. Now if Jesus relies on the father, to do whatever, to live, to do miracles etc, then he is dependant. And if Jesus is dependant, then he is not God. It is as simple as that.

Yes I know there is a difference of opinion, however my salvation relies on this, so why is it not simple? Why is there such a huge difference of opinion amongst Christians when it is the most fundamental teachings in my opinion. There is no mention of the trinity in the Bible, that they are some co-equal God. It just does not work.

My point is this. Bible contains errors and contradictions, yes Con has 'answered' some however I need to have a rebuttle. The Quran does not. Both are the main books of the religions. Thus, this makes Islam more true than Christianity. As the basis of Islam is to follow the Quran and the basis of the latter is to follow Christianity. Nothing new

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@rayhan16

these are easily your weakest debates in my opinion, rayhan. Your entire argument comes from assuming you know God more than Jesus did. Unless you believe the Bible is 80% lies. Either the Bible is a book full of lies or you know more than a prophet.

"Another analogy for the Trinity is that God is three in one, just as H2O can exist as a solid, a liquid, and a gas. This, too, can be helpful in understanding that there is something about God that is one and something about God that is threefold. However, ice, water, and vapor are three modes of being of H2O. To take this analogy too far would be to think that God exists in three modes and can express being God in three ways. However, the Father, Son, and Spirit are not just modes of being. We might say that this analogy emphasizes the oneness of God at the expense of God’s three-ness."

I think this one was a great analogy, you just cant seem to understand how God can have different qualities from which you imagine him having. You clearly put God into your own mental boxes, of what he should and shouldn't do if he were a self reliant being. If you simply watched ibn arabi, which you still clearly haven't done. You would have an answer to this question a week ago. Just because Jesus chose to indulge in human sensations and eating food etc, doesn't mean he needed too or was even reliant on such things, He clearly wasn't (at least through most of his life). He could do anything he wanted according to scripture, he just didnt to respect free will. He allowed himself to feel pain of a human body and take on our sins. There's no contradictions here, simply black and white thinking. Does God truly lose infinity in your eyes if aspect of his infinity CHOOSE to feel non infinity temporarily? that still doesn't deny the fact God is still overall infinite in his highest form and can attain union with this form once more. Theres a million different sects of Christianity which all have their own consistent philosophies which answer these questions already. Just in their own ways. Catholics say Jesus never sinned, so he never needed to eat. Quakers say he was born a man like me and you, he did sin but attained immortality in oneness with God on the cross. The answers are there. All of them have consistent answers to this in their own way.

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@christianm

I do acknowledge I got the quotes from the atheist site, however it should not really affect it. Plus, round 2 I copied the quotes from the actual bible NIV so hopefully that should be enough

If this comes down to the definition of plagiarism, that will be annoying. I think Pro has a point since the points are just from the bible (he's literally citing the primary source); they could settle it by citing atheists.org, but Con may win on a technicality.

I don't think arguments themselves are copyrighted, maybe some of the phrasing though.

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@Novice_II

How could I plagiarize quotes? It is written in your Bible. It is not plagiarism as we know I never wrote it, it's in the bible. Stupid point to make

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@FLRW

They always run in the end

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@FLRW

Right, so as you have not provided any evidence for your claims nor have you given your point of view on how the universe was created, you have not got my permission to talk to me. Once you provide that evidence and point of view then expect an answer.

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@rayhan16

Sorry, I have to go.

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@rayhan16

Have you ever been under a general anesthetic? That is your afterlife.

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@FLRW

I am asking you as you made the claim. The old saying 'whoever makes the claim you gotta provide the evidence' or your claim is invalid.

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@rayhan16

"What could create the universe if it was not God following my criterium in my last message?"

Ask Elon Musk.

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@FLRW

First of all, how does that correlate to my questions?

I am on earth for 1 reason only, and you already know that reason

Secondly

Please answer these questions

What could create the universe if it was not God following my criterium in my last message?
Who is under a bigger risk?

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@rayhan16

Well, I do have a Harvard COOP card. Sorry, I'm just working on my Silver Medal.

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@FLRW

First of all, how does that correlate to my questions?

I am on earth for 1 reason only, and you already know that reason

Secondly

Please answer these questions

What could create the universe if it was not God following my criterium in my last message?
Who is under a bigger risk?

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@rayhan16

You are on Earth for one reason only. That is to promote evolution. Look around you, there are filthy rich stupid people and kids dying of cancer.

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@FLRW

I am not Christian but a Muslim.

You never answered any of my points,

What could create the universe if it was not God following my criterium in my last message?
Who is under a bigger risk?

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@rayhan16

'The word God is for me nothing but the expression and product of human weaknesses,' Einstein wrote to Gutkind, 'the Bible a collection of venerable but still rather primitive legends. No interpretation, no matter how subtle, can (for me) change anything about this. '-Albert Einstein
"There is no God," wrote Stephen Hawking, "No one directs the universe."

First of all, opium gives you hope. Opium is there for peace of mind, for a purpose in life. Fake religion does not.

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@FLRW

First of all, religion gives you hope. Religion is there for peace of mind, for a purpose in life. Atheism does not.

Besides, who has more to lose here
Me or you?
Lets say there is no God (I do not believe this but it is hypothetical), nothing would happen to me, I would die and that would be it.
Then lets say there is a God, and Islam was the truth. You would be in a sticky situation my friend,

We can also discount the theory that nothing created the universe as nothing does not exist.
A dependant entity cannot create the universe because it would be an infinite regress.
The entity that created the universe must have no beginning or else it would be dependant of time
This just discounts the theory of nothing creating the universe, the multiverse, any dependant thing that you can think of right now cannot create the universe.
It is illogical to say anything other than God created the universe.
Unless you can give me a sufficient answer, religion is the truth

Religion is the opium of the people.

Well, if you want for me to leave you alone in your debates, you should have said so. I will leave this comment section now. We will still meet in that debate that you challenged me to .

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@Best.Korea

Why you so obsessed with me? You moving like a pedo. Get out of my comment section

This is why you shouldnt let terrorists(muslims) in your country. First they want to constantly debate you and after they lose every debate, they want to chop off your head.