THBT: People should be forced into recovery programs

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#3617

THBT: People should be forced into recovery programs

Status

Finished

The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.

Winner & statistics

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After 3 votes and with 19 points ahead, the winner is...

Ehyeh

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Politics

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Publication date: 07.31.2022 12:13PM
Last updated date: 09.06.2022 08:00AM
Type: Standard
Number of rounds: 3
Time for argument: Two days
Max argument characters: 15,000
Voting period: One month
Point system: Multiple criterions
Voting system: Open

Contender / Con

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Description

People should be forced into recovery programs, such as those to deal with severe drug abuse, severe eating disorders, and so on. In the United States, if you're a legal adult, you have the ability to refuse treatment/medical intervention and to essentially allow yourself to die, at least in many parts of America. This will be the topic of stipulation. In other parts of the globe, such as Canada, people can be forced into rehabilitation programs to save their lives, I will be arguing that this is the correct and most logical policy.

Pro: people should sometimes be forced into recovery programs
Con: people should never be forced into recovery programs

Round 1

07.31.2022 01:54PM

Pro

I. Uncertainty principle

In most parts of the globe, active voluntary euthanasia is illegal. The reason for this is manifold. One is due to a best interest argument; when someone is depressed and wants to commit suicide, we assume it is in their best interests not to commit suicide. The reason for this is the idea that committing suicide is like dropping an atomic bomb on your life problems. Since humans are not omniscient beings, we're unsure if it's within a suicidal person's best interest to commit suicide. Therefore, we assume it's best to save the person as we don't know if they are aware of what they're doing and the implications of their actions. The moral implications of dying are likely far worse than choosing to live and sorting through and continuing to contemplate the issues that give them so much suffering, which offers an opportunity to overcome them. If we could know if it was in someone's best interest to die with certainty, then there would be no reason to stop suicides from happening.

II. the saviour paradox

If seeing someone commit suicide and deciding not to aid is ethically wrong, then not intervening when someone is using toxic substances to the point of imminent death, or someone not eating enough food to the point of death, would also be unjustifiable if watching someone commit suicide is.

p1. not stopping someone from committing suicide is ethically wrong.

p2. not stopping someone from taking substances which will lead to their eventual death is also therefore wrong.

III. Eugenia cooney

I'm going to make an example of a YouTuber with extreme body dysmorphia and anorexia. She is so emancipated to the point where it is evident she is going to die before her 35th birthday if she does not get immediate medical attention. Her parents don't force her to get rehabilitation for her eating disorder, so she's left in a state of not eating enough food to maintain body mass. She is so skinny to the point that if she tried to eat food, it very well might actually kill her. This means medical intervention is necessary to save her life, but where she lives in the United States, it allows her to deny medical help, which could save her life in her best interests.

This is evidently a faulty system when we're dealing with those who have a mental illness or are not suffering from a terminal illness. As proven by the lack of a symmetry breaker to be found between euthanasia and drug abuse/eating disorders and our moral responsibility within a normative ethical framework.

Short and sweet.

08.02.2022 01:54PM

Con

Forfeited

Round 2

08.02.2022 08:01PM

Pro

She was more like a beauty queen

From a movie scene

I said, "Don't mind, but what do you mean

I am the one

Who will dance on the floor in the round?"

She said I am the one

Who will dance on the floor in the round

She told me her name was Billie Jean

As she caused a scene

Then every head turned with eyes that dreamed of being the one

Who will dance on the floor in the round

People always told me, "Be careful of what you do.

And don't go around breaking young girls' hearts."

And mother always told me, "A-be careful of who you love,

And be careful of what you do

'Cause the lie becomes the truth."

Billie Jean is not my lover

She's just a girl who claims that I am the one

But the kid is not my son

She says I am the one

But the kid is not my son

For forty days and for forty nights

Law was on her side

But who can stand

When she's in demand

Her schemes and plans

'Cause we danced on the floor in the round

So take my strong advice

Just remember to always think twice

(Do think twice, do think twice.)

She told, "My baby, we'd danced 'til three."

Then she looked at me

Then showed a photo of a baby cry

His eyes looked like mine, oh, no

Do a dance on the floor in the round, baby

A-people always told me, "Be careful of what you do

And don't go around breaking young girls' hearts."

(Don't break no heart.)

A-but she came and stood right by me

And just the smell of sweet perfume

And this happened much too soon

And she called me to her room

Billie Jean is not my lover

She's just a girl who claims that I am the one

But the kid is not my son

(No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.)

Billie Jean is not my lover

She's just a girl who claims that I am the one

But the kid is not my son

She says I am the one

But the kid is not my son

She says I am the one

But the kid is not my son

No, no, no

Billie Jean is not my lover

She's just a girl who claims that I am the one

(No, there's not me, baby.)

But the kid is not my son

(No, no, no, no, no, no, no.)

She says I am the one (No, babe.)

But the kid is not my son, no, no, no

She says I am the one

You know what you did

She says he is my son

Breaking my heart, babe

She says I am the one

Billie Jean is not my lover

She is the one

Billie Jean is not my lover

She is the one

Don't call me Billie Jean

Billie Jean is not my lover

She is the one

She stumbled onto the scene

Billie Jean is not my lover

08.04.2022 08:01PM

Con

Forfeited

Round 3

08.05.2022 08:00AM

Pro

Yo, Zdot on production

I don't even know what to say

Okay

Peng tings on my WhatsApp and my iPhone too

The brown skinned girls and the white ones too

Girls love me and I love them too

I was on the roads when Dizzee made I Luv U (I Luv U, U, U)

Talk about me you better hashtag merky

Can't chat about speed look my cab man's certi

Shout out to my big bro Wiley, that's a badman from early

Lo-look I'm a boss man like Birdie, I'm a badman like Shirley

If grime's dead then how am I here?

Big man like me with a beard, look how am I scared?

God's wrath is the only power man fear

Couple skengman, then showerman here

Shower man down in my shower man gear, yeah

Talk about me you better hashtag problem

Adidas creps, don't ask where I got them

Don't ask what they are, don't ask if I copped them

I go hard for my team, I go hard for my squadron

Where'd you get your Rollie from?

W-where'd you get your Rollie from?

I do not know this don

Where do you know me from?

Out here like the Roll Deep song

Ban I'm tryna put my Co-Ds on

I do not know this don

Where do you know me from?

W-where do you know me from?

Where do you know me from?

W-where do you know me from?

Where do you know me from?

W-where do you know me from?

Where do you know me from?

W-where do you know me from?

Got bit by a snake, but I'm over that

Can't chat about gyal, I get loadsa that

Man know I'm a beast onstage

Don't make man go back to Culture Clash

Man are over-gassed

Dark skin boy, man are over-black

Talk real greazy, I'm known for that

Talk about Ps when you owe me that?

Man are not real like that

Real talk, man'll get killed like that

Man'll talk wrecked or man'll get caught in the flesh

Look, man I don't bill like that

We all know you're a good child

So pull up your jeans

Get off the street and go do your mum proud

Go get a job and don't come out your house, mug

Look I don't rate them boys

Bare wasteman, bare pagan boys

I come to your team and I fuck shit up

I'm David Moyes

Look, I'm a lord of the mic

And I ain't been Lord of the Mics

Can't chat about bars, can't chat about flow

Cuh man've done all of that hype, what?

Where'd you get your Rollie from?

W-where'd you get your Rollie from?

I do not know this don

Where do you know me from?

Out here like the Roll Deep song

Ban I'm tryna put my Co-Ds on

I do not know this don

Where do you know me from?

W-where do you know me from?

Where do you know me from?

W-where do you know me from?

Where do you know me from?

W-where do you know me from?

Where do you know me from?

W-where do you know me from?

Oi, big up Wiley

Man haffi pay homage to the godfather, yeah?

My name is Stormzy

My name is the problem

My name is Big Mike

My name is Stiff Chocolate

My name is Wicked Skengman, live in the flesh

Boy

Know me from, where do you know me from?

Where do you know me from, where do you know me from?

Where do you know me from, where do y-

Oi, I'm gonna 'llow it, I'm gonna 'llow it

08.07.2022 08:00AM

Con

Forfeited

08.07.2022 05:44PM

#17

putting lyrics is inappropriate after the debate is over, ok. How exactly is that offensive to anybody?

08.05.2022 09:13AM

#16

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@Ehyeh

Actually, that would be the violation of the agreement.

08.02.2022 04:51PM

#15

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@Intelligence_06

"the drug addict agreed he would go to rehab, he violated this agreement. he didnt go so now we have to force him at gun point"

is a great analogy to what you're saying.

08.02.2022 04:32PM

#14

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@Ehyeh

Because the Taiwanese "appeared" to agree but actually plotted separatism. Back in like the 70s and 80s the relationships were much more lax. It is their fault. Let's move to the DMs for further discussion, ay?

08.02.2022 04:27PM

#13

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@Intelligence_06

I find it odd that we agree we shouldn't drug people to take them to rehab even to save their lives. Yet you believe Chinese military intervention is justified in Taiwan (killing millions) just because of a difference in economic policy, created of their own democratic will? why is it within china's authority to decide for them what they should be able to do, if it shouldn't in the case of the addicted and needy? even if we agreed Chinas economic policy is superior, how do you go from that to making a moral ought to force it on the Taiwanese who don't want it?

If china went did decide to invade Taiwan, it would lead to the fall of China as we know it, so thankfully it wont make that silly decision.

08.02.2022 04:23PM

#12

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@Ehyeh

The people there doesn't want to be because a lightly-regulated market for textbooks is selling separatist stuff propagandized by a group of selfish politicians who just likes capitalism...I guess, under the trope that they think "China has no rights" (They are true, China would not allow them to make unreasonable amounts of profit off of THIS) so they turn to the US. They twist historical facts and make so that they paint China as tyrannical (incorrectly).

And the textbook become bestsellers and the people are brainwashed despite them not supposed to.

08.02.2022 04:15PM

#11

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@Intelligence_06

May I ask why you think Taiwan belongs to China? Even assuming it is, the people there don't want to be. In the UK, for instance, the Scottish, Irish, and Welsh can cede and leave the United Kingdom whenever they want through a referendum. They have even had these referendums done in the past. Why is China so incessant in not giving these people what they want?

People in china strike a lot of westerners as very "hive - mind" like. Very susceptible to just doing what they're told and not thinking for themselves but only within the boundaries of their cultures.

08.02.2022 04:05PM

#10

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@Ehyeh

Yeah, I am with China here, like I always do.

08.02.2022 04:03PM

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@Ehyeh

I firmly stand that we should probably tell addicts why recovery programs are good for them and they should join, but drugging people is like pulling random men from streets and then tell them forcefully they are a part of the US navy.

Yeah, if we interpret the topic moderately --- not extremely semantically, like I do in many cases, I agree with you.

08.02.2022 04:01PM

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@Intelligence_06

Did you hear about china threatening military intervention just because Nancy Pelosi was flying to Taiwan? that stuffs wild, the Chinese people need to do something about their government before it gets everyone killed.

08.02.2022 03:58PM

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@Intelligence_06

Its a joke. In most places, the state can force people to go into rehab with a court order. It clearly isn't that radical, if you take away the drugging part. You have a moral obligation to stop someone from committing suicide (in normative ethical frameworks) if you believe its wrong to watch someone hang themselves, you also ought to believe it wrong to watch and not help a drug addict who will soon kill themselves from their addiction without medical and institutional intervention.

08.02.2022 03:54PM

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@Ehyeh

You are willing to drug addicts to get into rehab. Look, in China, being a drug dealer is punishable for death or imprisonment for life, but even then nobody says anything as radical as this unironically.

My point being: Your idea is rad. I haven't seen your proof of this but I am against tranquilizing addicts to put them under rehab, all day, everyday.

07.31.2022 06:33PM

-->

@Intelligence_06

What must be done must be done.

07.31.2022 01:57PM

-->

@Ehyeh

Eh, I doubt any drug rehab center would first drug a person to come.

07.31.2022 01:44PM

-->

@Intelligence_06

If i put you in a straitjacket against your will after sedating you with horse tranquilisers. Was that not against your will? but you're right.

Best.Korea

07.31.2022 12:52PM

I was forced into treatment. Fun days, really. Especially that urinary catheter experience.