Instigator
Block19 avatar
Points: 21

Captain America will beat Batman in a straight up fight

Finished

The voting period has ended

After 3 votes the winner is ...
Block19
Debate details
Publication date
Last update
Category
Miscellaneous
Time for argument
Two days
Voting system
Open voting
Voting period
One week
Point system
Four points
Characters per argument
30,000
Contender
Dan4Life avatar
Points: 12
Description
Given only their abilities as they are described on paper and not based on the feats we see on comic books or film as they have varied wildly throughout the years and different media. They will also only be allowed to use tools and weapons that they carry with them on a normal day, no outside help, no upfront knowledge about the other, no running away to fight another day. This is my first debate on debateart so i want to start with something simple.
Round 1
Published:
I think it is important for us to agree on a foundation for this debate. I believe that captain america would win the fight because while not having meta or super human abilities, all of his human abilities and senses have been pushed to the limit of human potential. He is one of the best hand to hand fighters in the marvel universe, an exceptional tactician, and could outmatch batman in a head to head fight.

I propose that batman knows more fighting styles than capt. and has more tools at his disposal, but it will not be enough to carry the fight.

I would ask that my opponent focus on what is known about the characters in their overall day to day crime fighting history and not use examples that were shown to have occurred in one specific issue of one comic or movie run.
Published:
I believe Batman will win a head to head fight. Batman was trained to know all martial arts and trains everyday on his combat, speed, strength and agility. Captain America only trained to improve his speed and strength. He also beat Superman and the Justice League. Beating Captain America in a head to head will just merely be a stepping stone for him.

I maybe would agree that Captain America would win if the match was a No Weapons/Gadgets Match but the fight has no limitations. Due to this fact, Batman clearly has a huge edge with all the gadget he has but Captain America has his mere shield.

Can you please explain to me how Cap would be able to dodge Batman's weapons or fights off all of them with his shield?

Keep in mind that Batman is also an exceptional tactician like Captain America.
Round 2
Published:
I do agree that batman has learned all the martial arts that exist in DCU's earth. However captain america uses a fighting style he himself created, he did so to capitalize on his incredible speed, strength, reflexes, hand eye coordination, and stamina which is superior to any other human.
While batman has beaten superman and other members of the JL, he has never done it without immense preparation, specially crafted armaments (which he does not normally carry on his person), or outside help. So those feats really do not mater.
The fight does have limitations, which i have listed. Batman is allotted any tools and armaments that he is known to carry on his person on a regular basis. I do not think any of which give batman a "significant" advantage over capt. who is quite adept at blocking, dodging, disarming, and disabling people and technology.
Captain america's incredible reflexes and senses give him the ability to dodge a vast array of projectiles, and his shields ability to stop any and all oncoming impact and other forces that batman could pull from his utility belt. Eventually batman will run out of option and have will have to undergo a purely physical/martial fight which will tire him out, this will give capt. the opening he needs to take batman out.

Forfeited
Round 3
Forfeited
Forfeited
Round 4
Forfeited
Forfeited
Round 5
Forfeited
Forfeited
Block19 avatar
Added:
I know this wasn't a serious debate, but i wanted to have more of a back and forth at the very least. Since my opponent did not respond much it left me with nothing to argue against. I understand that this could be partially due to the holiday season being a bit more hectic than we would like and therefore do not fault him.
Instigator
#16
Mharman avatar
Added:
I almost accepted the challenge.
#15
Block19 avatar
Added:
--> @Ramshutu
Thank you for voting. I would like to have argued this a bit more but i didn't really get points to argue against.
Instigator
#14
RationalMadman avatar
Added:
thanks to me pming him vvvvvvvvv
#13
Block19 avatar
Added:
sorry for the delay, it looks like the issue has been fixed
Instigator
#12
RationalMadman avatar
Added:
--> @Block19
What are the issue you are having?
#11
Block19 avatar
Added:
I am having some issues posting on this forum
Instigator
#10
Block19 avatar
Added:
That is more or less my stance. I believe that captain america is physically and tactically superior to batman, however batman does have the resource advantage. Yet i have had too many batman fanboys argue against me, which is why i made the post.
Instigator
#9
RationalMadman avatar
Added:
--> @Block19
Without Alfred and Lucius Fox's expertise to aid him and make custom anti-Captain-America suit and weapons etc, Batman is losing this fight.
If you allowed Intel and other things, Batman is absolutely winning this fight.
#8
Block19 avatar
Added:
sorry i was going to be taking captain Americas side, again this is my first time with this and i should have made my position clearer. Also the reason i didn't allow upfront knowledge is because it would cause too much trouble trying to figure out how much information one could pull up on the other. However Batman is no pushover, he is arguably the best hand to hand combatant in the DCU, he is a brilliant strategist able to come up with plans on the spot, his speed and strength are also incredible for someone who is supposed to be a human with no meta human abilities or artificial assistance, not to mention his vast array of tools built into his suit and in his utility belt.
Instigator
#7
Raltar avatar
Added:
--> @Block19
Oh, and the description also doesn't specify which side Pro and Con take on this debate. So the person accepting the debate has no way of knowing which hero they are advocating for.
#6
Raltar avatar
Added:
--> @Block19
He is saying your debate description ("no upfront knowledge about the other") is effectively preventing Batman from using one of his most powerful assets; His intellect, skills as a detective and knowledge base about his common foes.
Batman (depending on which version of him we are talking about) is still a competent fighter even without those assets, but he becomes a significantly less compelling character. You may as well be asking, "Can Captain America beat some random ninja in a bat costume?"
#5
RationalMadman avatar
Added:
--> @Block19
The debate description
#4
Block19 avatar
Added:
What do you mean outruling
Instigator
#3
RationalMadman avatar
Added:
All the ways Batman dominates (Intel, strategy beyond powers etc) you're outruling.
#2
Bifolkal avatar
#3
Criterion Pro Tie Con Points
Better arguments 3 points
Better sources 2 points
Better spelling and grammar 1 point
Better conduct 1 point
Reason:
These arguments are about who would win in a fight, and i thought it would be batman because he has so many fighting skills and cool gear. Most of the round were forfeited, but the ones that weren't forfeited, the instigator was able to defend his proposition without a response from challenger. Challenger said "Can you please explain to me how Cap would be able to dodge Batman's weapons or fights off all of them with his shield?" And the next round Pro responded "Captain america's incredible reflexes and senses give him the ability to dodge a vast array of projectiles, and his shields ability to stop any and all oncoming impact and other forces that batman could pull from his utility belt." This is a good response and it is not challenged by the challenger because they forfeit, so I now think captain America wins this fight and instigator (green) wins the convincing arguments point.
Raltar avatar
#2
Criterion Pro Tie Con Points
Better arguments 3 points
Better sources 2 points
Better spelling and grammar 1 point
Better conduct 1 point
Reason:
Most of the debate was forfeit by both sides, however, based on what little was offered I have to side with Pro. The setup of the debate makes the scenario wildly unfair to Batman as a ordinary mortal human whose ability comes mainly from his intellect, investigative ability and access to advanced technology through his alternate persona as Bruce Wayne. Pro sets up the debate and also makes arguments which greatly limit Batman's ability to access these abilities. Con's only counter argument is that Batman has trained his agility, while Captain America supposedly did not. Con also asked Pro to explain how Captain America would use his shield during the fight, which provoked Pro to describe how Captain America would not only use his shield, but his superior stamina would eventually prevail against Batman in an extended battle. As Con forfeit the remainder of the debate beyond that point and nothing else was offered, Pro wins by default.
Ramshutu avatar
#1
Criterion Pro Tie Con Points
Better arguments 3 points
Better sources 2 points
Better spelling and grammar 1 point
Better conduct 1 point
Reason:
Full forfeit - but this hinges on “a straight up fight”. While Batman beat other foes, I found the argument that Batman needed preparation - thus not a straight up fight completely valid for refuting cons position.
The argument concerning caps reflexes and sheild allowing defensive nullification of Batman’s tools - the remaining balance is down to stamina - with cap beating Batman by attrition.
I would have loved to see more of an argument, but I would hand this to pro as a result of the above.