The user known as SupaDudz should ask out his crush as soon as reasonably possible!
The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.
After 1 vote and with 1 point ahead, the winner is...
- Publication date
- Last updated date
- Type
- Standard
- Number of rounds
- 3
- Time for argument
- Three days
- Max argument characters
- 4,000
- Voting period
- One month
- Point system
- Winner selection
- Voting system
- Open
-No semantics.
-Ask out can mean anything from asking her on a date, asking her to be your girlfriend.
-As soon as reasonably possible means the next time you have a reasonable opportunity to talk to her without any unrelated pressing concerns that would get in the way (i.e. you're going on vacation, she's in the hospital, etc)
-BOP is equal
That she might say no. This is an understandable fear, but it is a fear billions of people in his position have both tackled and overcome throughout human history. SupaDudz’s crush might say no and she might say yes.
SupaDudz won’t ever know until he asks her.
That alone could drop my reputation, what a lot of high schoolers care about nowadays. But with social media and how easy it is to access. Anybody could expose who I liked and make fun of me for it. Especially if that person is popular(which she is), they could tell their friends, which could embarrass me
CON’s first argument is that in light of the fact that he has only been talking to his crush for one month, his chances of getting her to say YES are very low. CON cites various factors such as popularity, past experience, etc. He further tells us that his crush has merely displayed a few signs that would suggest she is interested, as opposed to a number of non-verbal cues. CON ultimately concludes that asking his crush out now would be ‘jumping the gun.’
Quite the contrary. It is true that various factors can increase one’s chances of being successful in asking a woman out. It is also true that various non-verbal cues can be indicative of one’s chances. But we need merely refer back to my R1 source to see why this philosophy has no merit. CON’s argument is premised on chance so lets not forget the chance that there is something about CON that assures that this girl will NEVER say yes. Lets not forget the chance that someone else will ask this girl out while CON keeps waiting for the ‘right’ moment.
CON would have you believe that slowly and methodically relying on all these various factors is his key to success, but as my R1 source so eloquently pointed out, “[W]omen don't wait around forever. They've got options. Competition's fierce.” And as my R1 source additionally indicated, “because attraction has an expiration date, the longer you wait to make something happen with a woman, the lesser her attraction for you becomes -- and the more likely she is to be closed off to doing anything with you.”
What’s more, CON is not a mind reader so he has no idea what factor will truly increase this girl’s chance of saying yes and further has no idea when any particular signal referred to in his article is merely a gross misunderstanding.
[Re: [2] Timeframe]
CON tells us that not enough time has passed for him to determine whether his lovely crush is a good person or if they care to have a relationship, but this justification not only fails for the reasons cited in his chance-based justifications, but also due to the simple fact that his concerns is ultimately the purpose DATING serves to achieve. No one is asking CON to get married. He needs merely ask her out on a date. It is at that point (or throughout the dating process) that he can evaluate whether he wants to have a committed relationship with her.
CON says ‘jumping the gun’ would ruin his friendship with her, but there are scores of people who are still close friends despite having previously been a couple or one previously having asked the other out. As my R1 source makes clear, he should avoid making the ‘asking out a big deal’ and should only ask his crush out on a high note. That means NOT to perform some ridiculously over-the-top romantic gesture when asking her out (i.e. walking in front of the entire school at an assembly and formally declaring his feelings for her) and NOT while she’s talking to her friends or after a biology test (instead, do it while she’s having a good time talking to you).
[Re: [3] It's Not As Easy As It Seems Nowadays]
CON’s argument is that things have changed in the past 15+ years and that asking a girl out is not as easy as it once was due to social media and whatnot. He says one reaction someone might have to him asking out his crush is that he is a creep, thereby dropping his reputation. And with the advent of social media, scores of people could embarrass him.
But not only have things not changed to the extent CON is suggesting[1] , but the risk he is talking about will be a risk no matter how long he waits and is a risk he shouldn’t care about since social media is already populated with trolls/assholes. If anything, CON should savor this risk as it will not only prove that he has the courage to put himself on the line, but is the bold/courageous choice of action that may even be the factor that makes his crush say yes.
Sources:
CON’s excuse that his crush might come back onto the market is unpersuasive. Not only is there empirical evidence to indicate why waiting for a girl to “get on the rebound” is a poor strategy[1], but there’s also empirical evidence to suggest that women tend to make up their mind about someone in as little as three minutes and rarely deviate[2]. In CON’s case, his strategy is to take an unknown amount of time waiting for the right moment for this girl to get in and out of a relationship just so that he may ask her out when it’s possible that she might reject him anyway or the relationship might be terrible.
CON again says he doesn’t know this girl enough. Balderdash! By CON’s own admission, he has known this girl for a month. And based on the extent to which he talks about her in his poems, he has gotten ample time to know her.[3] When you can write poems about someone to the extent that you might get a book deal, you know them very well! In regards to impacting friendships, refer back to what I said about not making a big deal of things and asking her out and doing so on a high note.
[Re: [3] Not As Easy As It Seems Nowadays]
CON cites his fear of social media violence/suicide, but what he once again disregards is that meager possibility of someone being a jerk on social media is a possibility no matter when CON chooses to ask his crush out. If anything, CON has given justification to NEVER ask anybody out, which he clearly does not want to do (see poems).
[CONCLUSION:]
[1] https://tinyurl.com/ydxc5pvb
[2] https://tinyurl.com/ybp59ovo
[3] https://tinyurl.com/y7sn2x6v
[4] https://tinyurl.com/zz3skny
Arguments.
Pros argument is fairly straightforward - that fear of rejection is understandable, but it’s better to ask, and easy to ask and then see what happens.
Cons counter deals with a few basic issues:
1.) Rejection.
Con argues that he isn’t sure that the girl likes him, as she’s only given a few hints.
Pro points out that while it’s true that there is a chance this is true, if there is a chance now is the best time, as it’s likely going to be one less possible to ask her out as time goes on. He also points out to that pro may well have misread signs
Con points out that there may not be issues with waiting, as relationships rarely last. And con reiterates the signs are not there.
While I find pros points that con should not wait, and his summary that fear is always an issue particularly valid as a general point - however the main point con made was that there was not sufficient evidence to warrant belief of attraction as more compelling, making his fear more specifically justified than pros more general arguments imo.
1:0 Con
2.) Timeframe
Con argues there has not been enough time for him to feel comfortable about her and with her - arguing effectively that this is something he needs.
Pros main reply is that this is what dating is for, and argues that it may not ruin what appears to be a friendship. Con points out that pro didn’t address the main point - his feeling that he doesn’t know the girl too well.
In my view pro does not do nearly enough to show why con doesn’t know the person well enough. This is clearly a big problem for con, and in my view, not clearly refuted.
2:0 con
3.) it’s not as easy as it used to be. Con points out the issues with social media, and how it can mess up his life. Pro points out this will always be a risk no matter how long he waits.
While I think cons issue is valid, I believe con correctly argues on the basis of time here - that the risk doesn’t change with time.
2:1 Con.
On balance, I do have to say I must give this to con. His harms are fairly clear and in my view pro did not do quite enough to sell the chance of success, or to mitigate those harms.
I thought you'd like to know what happened since the time of this debate.
We ended breaking up after 2 months. It was healthy and it was a mutual agreement. We had to focus a lot more on school and our studies. But we currently are good friends and may get back together for the summer time
Even though the debate was lost by you, I got the balls to do it by you, so I thank you. It was a good 2 months, but things came to an end.
Vote reported: Alec
Mod decision: Removed
RFD: Pro said, "but the risk he is talking about will be a risk no matter how long he waits". These risks will only increase as social media power increases. I personally don't care if Con asks her out or not as long as he doesn't do certain things during the relationship or any other relationship. Me mentioning them is a tangent.
If he gets rejected, oh well. He'll get over it. But what if she says yes? Then you get a girl.
reason: Alec fails to highlight and analyze the main arguments throughout the debate.
You’re right, I made a bit of a hash of that. Let me clarify.
The point of this part was that a large aspect of the timeframe argument was that con felt he didn’t know the girl well enough, enough background, whether she’s a cheater, etc.
In my view, not being sure about the person, and whether they’re worthy is a valid concern: especially for him regarding the risks. While you did point out that he likes her, and this is what dating is for - and he knows her well enough to like her - in my view there wasn’t enough for me to be convinced that he shouldn’t take those specific concerns seriously. This kinda relates to my specific vs generic comment to the end.
I hope that helps clear things up a little.
"In my view pro does not do nearly enough to show why con doesn’t know the person well enough. This is clearly a big problem for con, and in my view, not clearly refuted."
There might be a typo here, but it was never my argument to show or explain why CON didn't know the girl well enough. In fact, I made the case he knew her very well based on his extensive poems about her. Thanks for reading nonetheless! =)
Thanks :) Lmao
Congratulations!
I am not into that but that is still cool.
I didn't get shutdown suprisingly
I built robots and watch Star Trek during high school - before all this geek cultural appropriation today - I got shot down a lot
As an addendum to my RFD:
If you really like her, ask her. Life’s really too short. You could be hit by a bus tomorrow and you’ll always regret the not knowing or not asking far more than being shot down.
:)
Meant to address this, but:
"PRO was in a situation where his crush liked him back. How could he have known this? He could have looked at the signs that she liked him. Dilated eye pupils, feet toward the POI(Person of Interest), etc. If he saw the things, then I would tell him to go for the girl and ask her out. That would've been the right moment if PRO noticed the signs that were present. But he didn't."
I could have observed numerous signs that she liked me, but it wasn't really a matter of my ability to look at the signs. The issue was that my fear of getting rejected overwhelmed my ability to think rationally. Or as Mr. Miyagi put it at the end of Karate Kid 3:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_S6GYF1B8Yk
"IT'S OKAY LOSE TO OPPONENT! MUST NOT LOSE TO FEAR!"
=)
I am pleased too! Thank you
Technically, you asked her out as soon as reasonably possible! ;-)
That notwithstanding, congrats man! Although I don't agree with your argument, I am pleased with the outcome nonetheless!
"I waited til the end of the debate to say this as well, just 2 days ago, I asked my crush in this debate out where she said yes. We went out Friday and we talked a lot. To prepare for this debate, I asked, "What was your first impression of me?" She said that she didn't really have an interest at all from our little chats and stuff. She then said that "even after the first time we hung, I was not sold on you. But then after the second time and the third time we hung. I started to see what type a person you were. A caring good person with a heavy heart and I started gaining interest." From there she said, it JUST TOOK TIME to get used to you and she who you were. She then said "I started to like you this week(before debate was finished) and now here we are."
Times have not changed that much since 2002. The same principles apply to getting your crush to wear a strap on and plow you.
Thanks for the debate! And regardless of what you say in R3, you seriously need to do this ASAP! =)
I plan on voting.
Awaiting response :)
I had some free time so I just finished up my arguments
Ik Hey Arnold plot. Will look into Frasier
If not for the fact that it's a 90s show full of 90s references, I would recommend to it. Frasier on the other hand, I highly recommend it! Niles and Daphne is all I have to say. =)
heard of hey arnold. not much of its plot
Noted! And here's to hoping I convince you to do the deed come January! =)
Posted
Never heard of many
That or Frasier. Good shows and perhaps some of the best ones I've seen in regards to this topic!
lol, in the distant past, I was in your shoes (minus the poems and talking about it on the internet). By the end of this debate, I'll let you know how it turned out!
Incidentally, have you ever seen the show Hey Arnold?
I liked the hook lol
I haven't read it, but im about too