Instigator / Pro
Points: 0

The user known as SupaDudz should ask out his crush as soon as reasonably possible!

Finished

The voting period has ended

After 1 vote the winner is ...
SupaDudz
Debate details
Publication date
Last update
Category
People
Time for argument
Three days
Voting system
Open voting
Voting period
One month
Point system
Winner selection
Rating mode
Rated
Characters per argument
4,000
Contender / Con
Points: 1
Description
-No semantics.
-Ask out can mean anything from asking her on a date, asking her to be your girlfriend.
-As soon as reasonably possible means the next time you have a reasonable opportunity to talk to her without any unrelated pressing concerns that would get in the way (i.e. you're going on vacation, she's in the hospital, etc)
-BOP is equal
Round 1
Published:
[Attention Getter]

Picture this: You’re an up and growing young man in high-school. You’re at that stage of being where your life is still a blank canvas, the future is uncertain and you’re only beginning to transcend into that winnowing thing called adulthood. A process that hasn’t been made any easier by the problems high school. Cliques, jerks, pointless classes and  in your case . . . love. Yes, four little words that appear that appear to plague and torture you day in and day out.  Four little worlds that keep you up night after night. And four little words that you always turn to when everything else appears dark.

There’s this girl you know. A girl you always find yourself watching from afar. A girl who is never far from your thoughts. And a girl you wonder and imagine each and every day about what it would be like to walk alongside her, her hand cupped in yours. It is THAT girl. THAT girl who you have written poem after poem about. THAT girl who you have gone to great efforts to try and spend time with. And THAT girl who is both a bane and a balm to your young existence. Are you crazy? After you obsessed? Are you pathetic? No. You are simply . . . in love.

And yet some small part of you knows that . . . life is short. High-school, as grand as it may seem right now, is even shorter. And that THIS girl you’ve spent so much time watching will eventually go to college find someone else or otherwise be beyond your reach. An ugly reality, but a reality it is. A reality you’re fully aware of, but a reality that brings you face to face with yet another four letter feeling: Fear.

What if she says no? What if she rejects you? You’ve spent so much time with nothing but love that if you were to lose love, you’d have nothing left. Is it not better to just let this feeling last? Or perhaps bide your time. Yes, bide your time. Spark up conversations with her, seize every opportunity to spend time with her, develop a budding relationship with her and then . . . THAT’s when you will tell her. Yes, that is what you should do . . . right? No!

[Introduction]

Good evening everyone! My name is Logical-Master and it is my pleasure to engage SupaDudz in today’s debate? Many of you might be of the impression that I was referring to him in my attention-getter just now, but wouldn’t be entirely accurate. Rather, the young man mentioned above is none other than myself (with some exceptions). Or rather, it was myself roughly 15-16 years ago when I too was in SupaDudz’s position. And my position is that SupaDudz’s need not repeat my mistakes. He needs to go ahead and ask this girl out as soon as possible for two simple reasons.
 
#1 [There’s only one good way to find out]

My friend SupaDudz’s dilemma ultimately boils down to his fear that this crush might reject him. That she might say no. This is an understandable fear, but it is a fear billions of people in his position have both tackled and overcome throughout human history. SupaDudz’s crush might say no and she might say yes. SupaDudz won’t ever know until he asks her. Simply biding his time is not productive as (1) there’s always the possibility that his crush isn’t interested in him regardless, (2) there’s always the possibility that his crush is interested in him and going to lose interest before SuperDudz stops biding his time, (3) there are so many other things SupaDudz could do with his time upon knowing for sure how his crush felt about him.  

#2 [It’s easy]

Asking a woman is not hard and anybody can do it. Attached is one of numerous sources that illustrate how simple a task it really is:[1]. The only conceivable “hard” part is coming to terms with the possibility rejection, but worrying about rejection is self-defeating as it’s always a possibility no matter who you ask out. If generation after generation of men can do it, I submit that SupaDudz is up to the task!

And that’ll do it for now!

Sources:

Published:
Introduction: My opponent put up a convincing argument about why I should ask my crush out. While my opponents points may have truth, they have major setbacks. Even if it's someone I love, I believe I should not ask someone ask I started talking to a month ago. For my contentions, I urge you to vote CON in this debate

(NOTE: Do not vote just because you wanna see me ask my crush out. Actually vote on who wins)

[1] Rejection

Opponents claims

That she might say no. This is an understandable fear, but it is a fear billions of people in his position have both tackled and overcome throughout human history. SupaDudz’s crush might say no and she might say yes.
However with other varying characteristics like looks, popularity, past experience, etc, these may affect the chances of me getting her. Right now the NO percentage is way higher than the YES percentage. It is clearly silly to define it by a YES OR NO

SupaDudz won’t ever know until he asks her.
While this may be true, there are certain characteristics to tell if someone is interested in dating you


There are many obvious ways these articles suggest about someone liking you or not. It isn't a 50/50. For the moment, my crush has only displaced few of these signs. The signs that are considered common courtesy! None of the ones like feet toward you, touching, etc, can be made true. This decreases the chance of my crush saying yes, and jumping the gun... which leads me to my second point

[2] Timeframe

The time that I have known this lovely lady is not enough to genuinely see if they are 

A) A Good Person
B) If they care to have a relationship

I have only met this girl for a month and half, and we have only hung out outside of school twice. As a cancer zodiac sign, it takes time to get people into my shell and include them in my life, so I must wait to see before making. Jumping the gun would ruin a friendship in total and potentially ruin my chances in the future. While yes, I am in love, it isn't a full love.

I write poetry for how I am feeling. When I see something good, I write about it or when I feel like garbage, I will write about it. So these poems are just a reference

Time is essential. While I may feel ready to start a relationship, she may not. In a relationship, it is all about balance in power. So for me to jump the gun would be pointless until there are obvious signs that she is intrigued. Right now it is too early and the signs are looking to friendship. That my change, but right away is too short

[3] It's Not As Easy As It Seems Nowadays

My opponent claims that it is very easy to ask them out. Rejection is a fear, but it also more than rejection. My opponent said he experienced the same thing in high school around 15-16 years ago. That was around 2002-2003. When I was born. Times have changed and social media has such an influence on our daily lives nowadays, things fly around fast. It is a different era we live in and this could spread negative attention. For example

"Oh my god, Supa asked her out! What a creep."

That alone could drop my reputation, what a lot of high schoolers care about nowadays. But with social media and how easy it is to access. Anybody could expose who I liked and make fun of me for it. Especially if that person is popular(which she is), they could tell their friends, which could embarrass me

Conclusion

While it is good to ask her out, as soon as possible is not the right strategy to go here. I barely known her and social media can fly around here. It isn't necessarily a 50/50 case like PRO says weighing in certain cirmustances
Round 2
Published:
[Re: [1] Rejection]
 
CON’s first argument is that in light of the fact that he has only been talking to his crush for one month, his chances of getting her to say YES are very low. CON cites various factors such as popularity, past experience, etc. He further tells us that his crush has merely displayed a few signs that would suggest she is interested, as opposed to a number of non-verbal cues. CON ultimately concludes that asking his crush out now would be ‘jumping the gun.’
 
Quite the contrary.  It is true that various factors can increase one’s chances of being successful in asking a woman out. It is also true that various non-verbal cues can be indicative of one’s chances. But we need merely refer back to my R1 source to see why this philosophy has no merit.  CON’s argument is premised on chance so lets not forget the chance that there is something about CON that assures that this girl will NEVER say yes. Lets not forget the chance that someone else will ask this girl out while CON keeps waiting for the ‘right’ moment.
 
CON would have you believe that slowly and methodically relying on all these various factors is his key to success, but as my R1 source so eloquently pointed out, “[W]omen don't wait around forever. They've got options. Competition's fierce.” And as my R1 source additionally indicated, “because attraction has an expiration date, the longer you wait to make something happen with a woman, the lesser her attraction for you becomes -- and the more likely she is to be closed off to doing anything with you.” 
 
What’s more, CON is not a mind reader so he has no idea what factor will truly increase this girl’s chance of saying yes and further has no idea when  any particular signal referred to in his article is merely a gross misunderstanding.
 
[Re: [2] Timeframe]
 
CON tells us that not enough time has passed for him to determine whether his lovely crush is a good person or if they care to have a relationship, but this justification not only fails for the reasons cited in his chance-based justifications, but also due to the simple fact that his concerns is ultimately the purpose DATING serves to achieve. No one is asking CON to get married. He needs merely ask her out on a date. It is at that point (or throughout the dating process) that he can evaluate whether he wants to have a committed relationship with her.
 
CON says ‘jumping the gun’ would ruin his friendship with her, but there are scores of people who are still close friends despite having previously been a couple or one previously having asked the other out. As my R1 source makes clear, he should avoid making the ‘asking out a big deal’ and should only ask his crush out on a high note. That means NOT to perform some ridiculously over-the-top romantic gesture when asking her out (i.e. walking in front of the entire school at an assembly and formally declaring his feelings for her) and NOT while she’s talking to her friends or after a biology test (instead, do it while she’s having a good time talking to you).
 
[Re: [3] It's Not As Easy As It Seems Nowadays]
 
CON’s argument is that things have changed in the past 15+ years and that asking a girl out is not as easy as it once was due to social media and whatnot. He says one reaction someone might have to him asking out his crush is that he is a creep, thereby dropping his reputation. And with the advent of social media, scores of people could embarrass him.
 
But not only have things not changed to the extent CON is suggesting[1] , but the risk he is talking about will be a risk no matter how long he waits and is a risk he shouldn’t care about since social media is already populated with trolls/assholes. If anything, CON should savor this risk as it will not only prove that he has the courage to put himself on the line, but is the bold/courageous choice of action that may even be the factor that makes his crush say yes.
 
Sources:

[1] https://tinyurl.com/yc4fhjl9(see date)
 

Published:
AT: [1] Rejection

Pro's rebuttal is saying that the factors may play in to the fact she may like you, however it is now or never as the competition may increase. However that is simply not the case in high school as those types of relationship that are never open and is a "love-forever" is very low(1). This stat and previous experience with this fine lady suggest that if she were to go off the market again, then it would be likely she can come back into the field of play. Doing it now when things are not at it's peak of learning are EXTREMELY low even in cases. It may take time for someone to know you well enough to ask you out. Increasing your percentage is key.

Ex: Logical has a pie. Someone takes the pie and proposes a deal. You can eat 20% of the pie right now and leave, or you can eat 78% of the pie and wait 4 hours to do so.(Gain no weight nor lose weight). The better deal is too wait. You get more by just waiting. Same scenario here with my crush. I get a higher probability to get myself closer to her and have a better chance here. Chancing it here isn't the money move when you can do better.

I may not be a mindreader, but the signs like I said are key to knowing if someone likes you. The signs do not show

AT [2] Timeframe

PRO seems to get the idea but not enough here. The point I make is that I need to learn this person too if I want to date her. For example, what if she gets exposed for cheating? Or what if she used her last BF for money? The timeframe and the amount we know each other don't add up. Take the time to feel each other out and see the situation. If someone you only met out of school 2x asks you on a date and you only known them for a month, it ruins the relationship and can cut ties as friends and give you 0% chance of getting her.

Asking her out in big fashion is not my groove either. I would do in private. My idea was NEVER to make it big, but it is still hard to do so even in such a secluded setting. Even if it is a NO from a private setting, it could impact friendships.

AT [3] It Is Not As Easy At It Seems Nowadays

PRO basically says that I need to embrace the risk of social media messing up my life and just say screw it and take a chance. Wrong! Wrong! Doing it right away and jumping the gun links to social media being more violent and harsh versus waiting it out, and asking when you are good friends. That will earn you more respect than doing that and reduce social media violence. The Impact of jumping the gun is this argument my #1 and #2 stop this impact. Kids are ruthless with it and CON ignores this fact and is oblivion to the fact kids have killed themselves over social media rumors and harsh remarks(2)

Stuff flies fast. This ruins my reputation and asking someone out that I like by jumping the gun asking her out is not a good way of trying to stay away from rumors and gossip and hate.

VOTE CON!

Round 3
Published:
Ladies and Gentleman: CON's whole case boils exactly down to what I said it did in R1: Fear. CON fears that if he doesn't wait for the “right” moment, he might get rejected. CON fears that if he doesn’t wait for the “right” moment, he could end up dating someone who is a bad person and doesn’t care to have a relationship. CON fears that if he doesn’t wait for the “right” moment, kids on social media might harass him. Fears, mind you, that are possible no matter when CON chooses to ask this lady out. Fears that men in CON’s position have been overcoming for generations as they reach adulthood. And fears that have no utterly no significance whatsoever in the grand scheme of things.

In R1, I mentioned that I too was once in CON’s position. We’ll call her B. I met B upon transferring to a new school. B was the only student to approach me and let me know that I was welcome there. I was infatuated with B throughout much of grade school. And like CON, I too came up with a bunch of excuses as to why I needed to "wait for the right moment." Needless to say, the right moment never came! We went to different colleges and that was the end of it. It wasn’t until college that I later found out a shocking discovery: B felt the EXACT SAME WAY about me the ENTIRE TIME! I couldn’t believe it, but by the time I found out, it was too late. And all the time I spent “waiting for the right moment” was for nothing.

And so when CON gives an example about waiting long enough to get 78% of a pie, what CON isn’t telling you is that you may very well end up wasting 4 hours of your time starving for a pie that someone else might walk up and take before you get a bite! Life is unfair like that! Sink your teeth into the 20% and if you don’t like it, go find something else! If you do like it, eat the remaining 80% and screw whatever deal was proposed!

[Re: [1] Rejection]
 
CON’s excuse that his crush might come back onto the market is unpersuasive. Not only is there empirical evidence to indicate why waiting for a girl to “get on the rebound” is a poor strategy[1], but there’s also empirical evidence to suggest that women tend to make up their mind about someone in as little as three minutes and rarely deviate[2]. In CON’s case, his strategy is to take an unknown amount of time waiting for the right moment for this girl to get in and out of a relationship just so that he may ask her out when it’s possible that she might reject him anyway or the relationship might be terrible.
 
[Re: [2] Timeframe]
 
CON again says he doesn’t know this girl enough. Balderdash! By CON’s own admission, he has known this girl for a month. And based on the extent to which he talks about her in his poems, he has gotten ample time to know her.[3] When you can write poems about someone to the extent that you might get a book deal, you know them very well!  In regards to impacting friendships, refer back to what I said about not making a big deal of things and asking her out and doing so on a high note.
 
[Re: [3] Not As Easy As It Seems Nowadays]
 
CON cites his fear of social media violence/suicide, but what he once again disregards is that meager possibility of someone being a jerk on social media is a possibility no matter when CON chooses to ask his crush out. If anything, CON has given justification to NEVER ask anybody out, which he clearly does not want to do (see poems).
 
[CONCLUSION:]
 
CON can cite all of the fears in the world, but nothing changes the fact that men of all ages face CON's fears on a daily basis and overcome it. And they don't do so by "waiting for the right moment." They do so by working up the courage to overcome their fears and ask women out.Sometimes they fail. Sometimes they succeed. His crush saying no is NOT the end of the world. If CON learns that lesson now as opposed to later, he will be a much happier man! 

Sources:
 
[1] https://tinyurl.com/ydxc5pvb
[2] https://tinyurl.com/ybp59ovo
[3] https://tinyurl.com/y7sn2x6v
[4] https://tinyurl.com/zz3skny


Published:
I thank my opponent for this debate and thank him for participating! Let's get down to my last arguments here. PRO was in a situation where his crush liked him back. How could he have known this? He could have looked at the signs that she liked him. Dilated eye pupils, feet toward the POI(Person of Interest), etc. If he saw the things, then I would tell him to go for the girl and ask her out. That would've been the right moment if PRO noticed the signs that were present. But he didn't. \

Using the pie analogy to a certain degree. Sometimes thing will happen with the POI, however that will only happen within an hour of that time you are waiting. And when they need your help or need to talk you, and your there, then they will see who you are and start to develop interest. Once you point out the signs, the move is now. But if no signs are visible, then do not rush it! 

AT: [1] Rejection

PRO says that they make up their mind about you within three minutes about someone. However, you don't know what they think unless you look at signs. These signs can tell if they are interested in you. And just like all things humans can change. The more you talk and get to know them, the more likely they show these positive signs to reduce your risk of rejection. And just like in the pie analogy, you get more pie by just waiting, and then when you wait, more positive can come out that lead to your ultimate goal

AT: [2] TimeFrame

PRO says that knowing someone for a month is enough to get to know them. However that is simply not the case. It has taken me 3 years to realize all the things about my friends that I did not know before. Of course I wouldn't wait three years to ask someone to go out, but only really knowing someone 1/36 of a percent is not a lot. Reduce that even more because of whether she has told me less personal things. The comfort-ability is not there just yet. Wait for a development and a progression where you know each other enough to the point where you can ask them out with confidence


AT: [3] Not As Easy As It Seems Nowadays

PRO says that it will happen no matter what. I agree with that statement, however, there is an increase chance it can happen with the rumors and stuff flying around not through just through verbal(back in 2002 where around PRO was and technology wasn't as huge along with social media), but now with social media and other anonymous accounts. It flies fast and can permanently damage my reputation.

My Story/Conclusion

I waited til the end of the debate to say this as well, just 2 days ago, I asked my crush in this debate out where she said yes. We went out Friday and we talked a lot. To prepare for this debate, I asked, "What was your first impression of me?" She said that she didn't really have an interest at all from our little chats and stuff. She then said that "even after the first time we hung, I was not sold on you. But then after the second time and the third time we hung. I started to see what type a person you were. A caring good person with a heavy heart and I started gaining interest." From there she said, it JUST TOOK TIME to get used to you and she who you were. She then said "I started to like you this week(before debate was finished) and now here we are."

So we can conclude here today, that patience is key. If I asked her out before, it would have been an instant no in the first place. I picked up on the signs she liked me and I made my move and look what happened. My point that time is key wins because time ended up getting me the girls

-Good Luck

Added:
--> @Logical-Master
I thought you'd like to know what happened since the time of this debate.
We ended breaking up after 2 months. It was healthy and it was a mutual agreement. We had to focus a lot more on school and our studies. But we currently are good friends and may get back together for the summer time
Even though the debate was lost by you, I got the balls to do it by you, so I thank you. It was a good 2 months, but things came to an end.
Contender
#28
Added:
--> @Alec
Vote reported: Alec
Mod decision: Removed
RFD: Pro said, "but the risk he is talking about will be a risk no matter how long he waits". These risks will only increase as social media power increases. I personally don't care if Con asks her out or not as long as he doesn't do certain things during the relationship or any other relationship. Me mentioning them is a tangent.
If he gets rejected, oh well. He'll get over it. But what if she says yes? Then you get a girl.
reason: Alec fails to highlight and analyze the main arguments throughout the debate.
#27
Added:
--> @Logical-Master
You’re right, I made a bit of a hash of that. Let me clarify.
The point of this part was that a large aspect of the timeframe argument was that con felt he didn’t know the girl well enough, enough background, whether she’s a cheater, etc.
In my view, not being sure about the person, and whether they’re worthy is a valid concern: especially for him regarding the risks. While you did point out that he likes her, and this is what dating is for - and he knows her well enough to like her - in my view there wasn’t enough for me to be convinced that he shouldn’t take those specific concerns seriously. This kinda relates to my specific vs generic comment to the end.
I hope that helps clear things up a little.
#26
Added:
--> @Ramshutu
"In my view pro does not do nearly enough to show why con doesn’t know the person well enough. This is clearly a big problem for con, and in my view, not clearly refuted."
There might be a typo here, but it was never my argument to show or explain why CON didn't know the girl well enough. In fact, I made the case he knew her very well based on his extensive poems about her. Thanks for reading nonetheless! =)
Instigator
#25
Added:
--> @Ramshutu
Thanks :) Lmao
Contender
#24
Added:
--> @SupaDudz
Congratulations!
#23
Added:
--> @Ramshutu
I am not into that but that is still cool.
I didn't get shutdown suprisingly
Contender
#22
Added:
--> @SupaDudz
I built robots and watch Star Trek during high school - before all this geek cultural appropriation today - I got shot down a lot
#21
Added:
--> @SupaDudz, @Logical-Master
As an addendum to my RFD:
If you really like her, ask her. Life’s really too short. You could be hit by a bus tomorrow and you’ll always regret the not knowing or not asking far more than being shot down.
#20
Added:
--> @Logical-Master
:)
Contender
#19
Added:
--> @SupaDudz
Meant to address this, but:
"PRO was in a situation where his crush liked him back. How could he have known this? He could have looked at the signs that she liked him. Dilated eye pupils, feet toward the POI(Person of Interest), etc. If he saw the things, then I would tell him to go for the girl and ask her out. That would've been the right moment if PRO noticed the signs that were present. But he didn't."
I could have observed numerous signs that she liked me, but it wasn't really a matter of my ability to look at the signs. The issue was that my fear of getting rejected overwhelmed my ability to think rationally. Or as Mr. Miyagi put it at the end of Karate Kid 3:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_S6GYF1B8Yk
"IT'S OKAY LOSE TO OPPONENT! MUST NOT LOSE TO FEAR!"
=)
Instigator
#18
Added:
--> @Logical-Master
I am pleased too! Thank you
Contender
#17
Added:
--> @SupaDudz
Technically, you asked her out as soon as reasonably possible! ;-)
That notwithstanding, congrats man! Although I don't agree with your argument, I am pleased with the outcome nonetheless!
Instigator
#16
Added:
--> @Logical-Master
"I waited til the end of the debate to say this as well, just 2 days ago, I asked my crush in this debate out where she said yes. We went out Friday and we talked a lot. To prepare for this debate, I asked, "What was your first impression of me?" She said that she didn't really have an interest at all from our little chats and stuff. She then said that "even after the first time we hung, I was not sold on you. But then after the second time and the third time we hung. I started to see what type a person you were. A caring good person with a heavy heart and I started gaining interest." From there she said, it JUST TOOK TIME to get used to you and she who you were. She then said "I started to like you this week(before debate was finished) and now here we are."
Contender
#15
Added:
Times have not changed that much since 2002. The same principles apply to getting your crush to wear a strap on and plow you.
#14
#1
Criterion Pro Tie Con Points
Winner 1 point
Reason:
Arguments.
Pros argument is fairly straightforward - that fear of rejection is understandable, but it’s better to ask, and easy to ask and then see what happens.
Cons counter deals with a few basic issues:
1.) Rejection.
Con argues that he isn’t sure that the girl likes him, as she’s only given a few hints.
Pro points out that while it’s true that there is a chance this is true, if there is a chance now is the best time, as it’s likely going to be one less possible to ask her out as time goes on. He also points out to that pro may well have misread signs
Con points out that there may not be issues with waiting, as relationships rarely last. And con reiterates the signs are not there.
While I find pros points that con should not wait, and his summary that fear is always an issue particularly valid as a general point - however the main point con made was that there was not sufficient evidence to warrant belief of attraction as more compelling, making his fear more specifically justified than pros more general arguments imo.
1:0 Con
2.) Timeframe
Con argues there has not been enough time for him to feel comfortable about her and with her - arguing effectively that this is something he needs.
Pros main reply is that this is what dating is for, and argues that it may not ruin what appears to be a friendship. Con points out that pro didn’t address the main point - his feeling that he doesn’t know the girl too well.
In my view pro does not do nearly enough to show why con doesn’t know the person well enough. This is clearly a big problem for con, and in my view, not clearly refuted.
2:0 con
3.) it’s not as easy as it used to be. Con points out the issues with social media, and how it can mess up his life. Pro points out this will always be a risk no matter how long he waits.
While I think cons issue is valid, I believe con correctly argues on the basis of time here - that the risk doesn’t change with time.
2:1 Con.
On balance, I do have to say I must give this to con. His harms are fairly clear and in my view pro did not do quite enough to sell the chance of success, or to mitigate those harms.