Instigator / Con
9
1706
rating
562
debates
68.06%
won
Topic
#471

Islam is a religion of peace. (I am against)

Status
Finished

The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.

Winner & statistics
Better arguments
3
3
Better sources
4
4
Better legibility
2
2
Better conduct
0
2

After 2 votes and with 2 points ahead, the winner is...

Moeology
Parameters
Publication date
Last updated date
Type
Standard
Number of rounds
4
Time for argument
Three days
Max argument characters
30,000
Voting period
One month
Point system
Multiple criterions
Voting system
Open
Contender / Pro
11
1511
rating
3
debates
50.0%
won
Description

No information

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@Moeology

Thank you for your advice.

A good starting point would be to address the arguments I gave for the resolution in R1 because you do not seem to even know that they exist.

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@Moeology

You will fail. I will make sure of it.

No, It's not too late to point out a contradiction to the voters. The claim was false anyway, I clearly defined what Islam is in the second round.

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@Moeology

It's too late now.

RM from comment #27:

"And Islam isn't the people as Pro defined in R2."

Also RM from round 3:

“Islam has yet to be fully defined but at least now we see that Pro has stated that to him, personally, it's only the scriptures that matter.”

If I did not fully define Islam, how do you know what it does and does not include?

" Imagine if this were a physical competition, we do not credit the extra miles someone runs outside of a marathon." Good point.

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@Alec

Regarding if the comment section is the debate to be voted on... I don't want to simply call Someone Else an idiot, but I will say they are highly misinformed. I can say they are misinformed, because I am a valid authority on the subject (information in my profile)

Imagine if someone says nothing inside the debate, then spends weeks whining in the comment section begging people to vote for them (this has happened numerous times). When judging the debate, would you logically follow the debate setup rules (such as a character limit, timing of the rounds etcetera)? Or would you dismiss the debate structure to vote based on anything else? Imagine if this were a physical competition, we do not credit the extra miles someone runs outside of a marathon.

You could for example have first hand information that Muhammad preached against peace, yet would that be fair to bring up as justification for a vote on this debate? While you could mention it as a side note, the ballot is to reflect the competition between them inside the arena.

"including how you would vote against me for a comment." If your referring to now, the blocking happened before I made the comment. Besides I heard from someone else that what you say in the comment section counts.

@Ragnar
I don't want to commit revenge voting despite being ticked off by RM. If needed, I could simply not vote on this debate.

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@RationalMadman
@Alec

RM, of course none of those three were. Why it's a double edged sword is that your opponent could name three similar men who happened to be Muslim (I will not do his research for him by listing examples).

Alec, I have no clue how you could twist that so badly. Plus comments (while related) are not the debate. Some people try to prove themselves right after debates end, but it doesn't count. Nor would arguments from anyone other than the debaters... I will however say that you could cast non-scoring votes, so as to get practice. Your biggest problem right now is wanting to commit what looks like revenge voting.

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@Alec

If I say in a comments section that I actually believe the opposite and am playing devil's advocate that can't and will never be sufficient reason to vote against me.

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@Alec

I blocked you for several reasons, including how you would vote against me for a comment.

And Islam isn't the people as Pro defined in R2.

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@Alec

It is not a concession. The religion I am referring to isn't Islam.

"I also agree a religion can be peaceful." This is a concession. Stuff you say in the comments matters and I plan on voting primarily for Pro. Also, why dd you block me?

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@Barney

None of those 3 were Muslim. I am happy for you to vote but I have not addressed that point as I also agree a religion can be peaceful. Islam just happens to have a different end-goal to peace.

How do you each prefer to be referred? And do either of you object to a vote from me? If objections exist (be it due to my voting style, or more likely military service in Iraq), I will assign no points.

I have not read it all yet, but I am finding it engaging enough to continue (save for certain things which should have been handled prior to the start).

...

I will say right now I liked the reference to "Gandhi, Martin Luther King, and Nelson Mandela." As much as it is a rather obvious double edged sword. In any case, showing ways a religion can be considered "of peace," avoids attempted K's to the topic by saying 'religion cannot be of peace,' and gives a nice potential area for contrasting evidence.

168-174 not 172 sorry

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@Outplayz
@Swagnarok
@Analgesic.Spectre
@Barney
@Logical-Master

Please see below (my previous comment).

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@coal
@David
@blamonkey
@whiteflame
@Ramshutu

Hi guys, I believe my strategy here, of enabling Pro to dictate angles and even some definition stuff, but refusing to budge on BoP and then using my weaker start and Pro's rigid structure against him in R3 isn't bad conduct or fallacious tactics ad Pro still has R3 and R4 to reply toe, but is very good middle-ground baiting and checkmating. Take a read and perhaps vote as well. Thanks in advance, I was nervous of the way I went about this debate but I used the Four-Round amount and my opponents psychology and style to my advantage optimally, I believe.

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@Moeology

Good luck with your new angle. It will fail and I will disprove myself it need be while turning your case against you while supporting my fourth contention of Round 1 to finish it off.

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@RationalMadman

>Before you use that I said 'Islam is peace to achieve war'

Yeah, that's a concession.

>you said fighting to achieve peace is actually peace and not war.

No, I did not. I said that a war that attempts to achieve peace in the long-term is peaceful.

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@Moeology

Before you use that I said 'Islam is peace to achieve war' and that I conceded that it is peace. I will refer to your Nazi analogy and explain how if the aim and purpose of the submission and tranquility is to enable and encourage fierce powers that be, that this is the opposite of peace since you said fighting to achieve peace is actually peace and not war.

I'm playing Devils advocate when I say this. Can you add a source?

In the same ruling, al-Azhar found that the man's children, presumably raised Christian but considered Muslim because of their father, must be killed upon reaching puberty if they did not renounce Christianity and become Muslims.

RM, here's a tip:
Don't just look at the Qur'an. From what I've heard, the Qur'an is the relatively innocuous part that Muslim proselytizers want the outside world to see, kind of like what Mormons do with the Book of Mormon, though in the latter case it was probably more intentional.
Look at the Hadiths, and at the prevailing interpretations of Muslim holy texts. In 1978 al-Azhar University, the highest authority in Sunni Islam, issued a fatwa ruling that a Muslim man living in Germany who converted to Christianity must be put to death.

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@RationalMadman

BOP is shared, not solely on pro. If it is not shared and Con does not negate the resolution, then he has not made his case.

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@Moeology

Never mind

I think the BoP is shared.

An agreement about the BoP is something you need to nail down before you debate.

No, it is not. Burden of proof is shared equally. If you negate the proposition, then you have to provide evidence for that negation.

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@Alec

Pro but there's a fair share of antiproof that I need to produce.

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@RationalMadman
@Moeology

Who has the BoP?

Interesting debate. I plan on voting on it if I have the time for it when it is done.

It definitely makes the debate more controlled and provides organization to the debate. Rational, since you are negating the proposition, you have to provide evidence that Islam is not a religion of peace. While I have to provide evidence that Islam is a religion of peace since I am affirming the resolution.

There doesn't have to be.

There is no debate structure.

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@Alec

We also agree on a few other things, you just don't know my stances too well as they are very context-based/situational.

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@RationalMadman

Finally we agree on something.