Instigator / Pro
4
1596
rating
42
debates
63.1%
won
Topic
#528

The Republican Party is better then the Democratic party.

Status
Finished

The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.

Winner & statistics
Better arguments
0
3
Better sources
2
2
Better legibility
1
1
Better conduct
1
1

After 1 vote and with 3 points ahead, the winner is...

RationalMadman
Parameters
Publication date
Last updated date
Type
Standard
Number of rounds
4
Time for argument
Three days
Max argument characters
7,000
Voting period
One week
Point system
Multiple criterions
Voting system
Open
Contender / Con
7
1697
rating
556
debates
68.17%
won
Description

Rules of the debate:
1: The BoP is shared
2: I waive the 1st round and my opponent waives the last round. Violation is a loss of conduct point.

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@RationalMadman

"I take it you are in middle-upper class and have been your whole life, yes?
Do you comprehend what taxes are good for?" - RM

I used to be middle class but I have retired and would not regard myself as such any longer. But what is your point?

Taxes are good up to a certain point. Free enterprise gives us jobs that make our countries wealth. Big government takes over private enterprise. It shuts it down as it gets involved in more and more endeavors. When the government starts charging its rich citizens a 70% tax rate it kills free enterprise and gives very little to reinvest into its economy. That is the insanity that is being pushed in your country - kill wealth and give more and more power to the big government so that they will dictate exactly how you live, what you will be able to do and what you will be banned from doing. If big government looks after all your needs what incentive is there to work and try to get ahead? Why should I seek an incentive to improve my life if everyone gets the same thing?

Anyone who votes Democrat, IMO, is an utter turkey. New Democrat's have no solutions, just a masquerade in how these liberal fools will solve all your problems with their supposed panacea. Meanwhile, what have they done that is constructive lately? Nothing.

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@PGA2.0

I take it you are in middle-upper class and have been your whole life, yes?

Do you comprehend what taxes are good for?

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@RationalMadman

Florida: $12,439.09 in Total Taxes Paid
Federal income taxes paid: $6,696.18
State income taxes paid: $0.00
Gas taxes paid: $392.03
Sales taxes paid: $2,705.38
Property taxes paid: $2,646.00

Florida is a state with no income tax, so that helps offset high gas taxes paid in the state. Property taxes and median home values are a bit above average, but in spite of this, many cities in Florida are ideal for buying investment property.

https://www.gobankingrates.com/taxes/filing/how-much-do-americans-pay-in-taxes-state/#11

California is rated the worst State for businesses in one survey:
https://www.ocregister.com/2016/05/19/survey-california-still-worst-state-for-business/
California has the highest State tax rate:
https://files.taxfoundation.org/legacy/docs/PIT-01.png
California's infrastructure is falling to pieces. Report card ratings give bridges a C- rating, transit a C- rating, and roads a D rating.
http://www.ktvu.com/news/california-infrastructure-repairs-to-cost-187-billion
https://www.infrastructurereportcard.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/ASCEBrochure-CA-Final.pdf
Californias single-payer health care system could cost the State 400 billion:
https://www.latimes.com/politics/essential/la-pol-ca-essential-politics-updates-first-fiscal-analysis-of-single-payer-1495475434-htmlstory.html
California quality of life ranks worst of the 50 states:
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/rankings

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@RationalMadman

Illinois: $19,965.03 in Total Taxes Paid
Federal income taxes paid: $8,983.74
State income taxes paid: $3,118.10
Gas taxes paid: $366.77
Sales taxes paid: $3,461.30
Property taxes paid: $4,035.00

High sales, property and state income taxes contribute to a large total tax bill in Illinois. Taken altogether, Illinois residents pay nearly 32 percent of their income, on average, toward taxes, the fourth-highest percentage of all states.

***

New York: $20,744.64 in Total Taxes Paid
Federal income taxes paid: $9,402.18
State income taxes paid: $3,326.75
Gas taxes paid: $419.97
Sales taxes paid: $3,377.75
Property taxes paid: $4,218.00

New York has the eighth-highest total taxes paid and — when taking all forms of taxes together — consume nearly 32 percent of income. A relatively high median household income of $64,894 plays a role in big federal and state income tax bills. And gas, sales and property taxes paid here are much higher than in most states.

***

Texas: $15,351.02 in Total Taxes Paid
Federal income taxes paid: $8,150.82
State income taxes paid: $0.00
Gas taxes paid: $251.90
Sales taxes paid: $3,250.43
Property taxes paid: $3,698.00

Even though there’s no state income tax, the total taxes paid in Texas are higher than nearly half the rest of the country. That’s because sales and property taxes paid here are higher than in a majority of states.

"Canada, Western Europe, Australia and New Zealand all directly disprove this notion.
Social Democracy can and does work. Socialism doesn't work.
Soc-dem =/= dem-soc" - RM

The kind of socialism Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (stupid, stupid person) or your Democrat Party is pushing (big government control) is a killer of growth and private enterprise. With a tax rate of 70% for those who fuel jobs and private industry what incentive do the rich have to stay invested? That is why so many are fleeing from States like California, NY, Illinois, and other Democrat controlled States. They don't work. They use up the resources fast with their socialist agendas.

Do you realize what percentage that Canadians pay for health care and big government?

https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/canadians-pay-42-of-income-in-tax-more-than-they-spend-on-food-shelter-clothing-combined

https://www.winnipegfreepress.com/opinion/analysis/average-canadian-to-pay-37700-in-taxes-this-year-47296992.html

Compare that to your country.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-04-10/how-much-americans-really-pay-in-taxes

So, you pay about 11%-20% whereas we pay about 42% in taxes every year. The upper middle class in Canada pays more for the tax rate goes up depending on how much you make.

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California: $23,316.16 in Total Taxes Paid
Federal income taxes paid: $10,922.60
State income taxes paid: $4,004.48
Gas taxes paid: $484.98
Sales taxes paid: $3,397.64
Property taxes paid: $4,506.00

California has the fourth-highest tax burden, on average, because of high tax rates across the board. It has the second-highest gas taxes paid. And property and income taxes paid are high because of the state’s high home values and high median household income.

***

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@PGA2.0

Canada, Western Europe, Australia and New Zealand all directly disprove this notion.

Social Democracy can and does work. Socialism doesn't work.

Soc-dem =/= dem-soc

"Why would you want freedom when you can have harmony instead?" RM

You don't get harmony from socialism nor liberalism. Look around the world and point to a socialist government that has harmony. What you eventually get is tyranny and despotism if driven to the natural outcome of those idealisms.

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@RationalMadman

Can somebody drop kick ramshutu?

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@PGA2.0

Why would you want freedom when you can have harmony instead?

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@RationalMadman
@Alec

Anyone who is dumb enough to think that the socialistic Democrats have your best interests in mind should listen to Mark Levin, February 23, 2019.

Try and understand what freedom really is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMP2EcZdMMg

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@whiteflame

The microbiologist, annihilated by the common cold.

Sorry, won’t get to this. Been flattened by a cold.

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@Ramshutu

Thanks for your vote. I conceded the freeing of slaves being Republicans, not the giving of voting rights being them. The voting right to blacks was Democrats.

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@RationalMadman

Your Republic has worked better than most democracies, yet is it being undermined by Democratic Party values (or lack of good values and lack of common sense). I don't see how you can think that the Democrats are more intelligent than the Republicans, they are just more shifty and cunning and know how to manipulate their Democrat base and many independents.

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@Alec

The issue isn’t the word count, it’s your utilization of word count that is the problem.

If you want to spend the majority of the debate in long rebuttals of tanegental points that neither support nor negate the resolution to the detriment of key points that do support or negate the resolution : then you are going to end up losing a lot of debates.

Not all points are relevant or warranted, and if you simply focus on addressing all points chronologically to the same extent regardless of how irrelevant or warranted, it’s going to suck up al your word count, and you’ll not be able address the important stuff.

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@Ramshutu

When arguing, I tend to be elaborative in my rebuttals. This means I can only address so many points per round.

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@Alec

If you’re opponent had the word count to raise a point, you had the word count to deal with it.

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@Ramshutu

I had to drop some points because I ran out of characters. This is not true for my opponent.

From my position that the speech by the KKK should be considered as horrifying by voters by default - I’m treating this as a major concession by pro.

Talk about who votes for who seems irrelevant to the resolution and I will ignore it.

Pro provides reasons he is for the second ammendment.

R3: con argues that the dems are better at forging alliances and maintaining peace - so don’t need a strong military.

Cons final round here seems more like a rant, but thankfully he points out this is dema vs reps and pro hasn’t said anything to raise republicans over democrats.

R4 pro :

This was purely formatted, and quite frankly was mostly off the topic of the resolution, or responding to cons rant from the previous round.

This entire round is so far off topic at this point, it’s not entirely what the rebuttals are even intending show at this point.

Con argues that a strong military isn’t needed when you make good alliances.

Con then argues that the republicans are racist, and we should look at the states in the past - then argues we should look at the state of things now not in the past - literally a paragraph later.

Con argues the second amendment makes no sense, and both sides support the first ammendment

R3: pro

Pro drops claims about republicans contradiction policy on immigration.

Pro argues that liberals want open borders by citing three examples- and does not bother to show that the Democratic Party supports this notion. I’m ignoring this point.

Pro rebuttal to cons argument on income inequality and inability to get ahead were pretty feeble here, arguing that people should just start a business, and that being injured could lead to extreme poverty should be solved by adoption was bordering on simply absurd.

Pros rebuttal to the “strong military” argument here is good. Con oddly does not argue that democrats are also for a strong military but instead that a strong military is not a great thing. So I have to give this point to pro - but weakly.

Pro points out affirmative action treats people differently - he doesn’t offer any actual arguments against the merits of affirmative action

Pro argues that the racist, KKK who have historically murdered black people, who are typically in support of the degradation and harm of black people are not treated as hate speech by republicans - whereas they are by the left.

Argument rounds.

R1 - con.

Con provides one speech from one president and uses this to assert Democrats are smarter. This is a completely unwarranted argument at this point.

Con then spends half the post confusing republic and democracy with Republicans and Democrats.

Con ten provides a list of positives from Democrats which are mostly a series of unsupported assertions that he doesn’t provide justification or sources for.

R2 pro negates cons assertions about bush - but then concedes liberals are smarter.

Pro then says it is safe to assume that republicans gave blacks the right to vote and liberated them from slavery, and ended segregation. Is that safe to assume? Where are your sources?

Pro finishes his opening with a list of unsubstantiated claims about both republicans and democrats - just as con did.

Pro conceded the main issue of intelligence, and didn’t offer any rebuttal of cons primary assertions about democrats

R2: con

Con - insanely - drops pros claims that republicans ended segregation and established voting rights .... uh wut.

Con argues that DP is open to sensible immigration policy - and sources this. He also points out that the RP actually has an incoherent policy as its propose to implement policies that form the basis of its opposition to illegal immigration. This argument has a lot of holes, but I will wait to see what pro says.

Con argues that nothing is changing on abortion. I don’t see how this is relevant ti the debate contention.

Con argues that progressive tax is an excellent idea, and comes up with a really good explanation of why relating to ability to succeed.

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@PGA2.0
@Mharman

Please vote if you have the time.

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@blamonkey
@whiteflame

Please vote if you have time/

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@Ramshutu

As you're dedicate to vote on EVERY SINGLE debate, this is only a one-week period and if you're gonna last minute vote against me I'm losing anyway so please put your vote in for or against.

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@PGA2.0
@Mharman

Please vote when you have the time.

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@Ramshutu
@Raltar

pls vote here when you have time, ty in advance.

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@Alec

"was struggling and said Osama was" not "was struggling and Osbama as"

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@Alec

I realise I didnt directly address the KKK issue. I'll prove that the states they operated in and entire way they think/thought and operated/operate is anti-democrat and other things too.

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@Alec

Full force smash to the intellectual-ribs is how I like to take on a Republican Party advocate.

I'm worried I'm going to lose.

As of the time of this comment, #2 vs #1. Bound to be interesting.