Instigator / Pro
Eminem is the greatest rapper alive
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Contender / Con
Eminem is the best rapper alive, Eminem has his own movie about how hard it was to get into the rap industry and how he became who he was. Eminem has one 15 Grammys in his life and more to come this year. Someone try to change my mind
Eminem is the greatest rapper alive and will always will be, Eminem has his own movie about how he struggled through life just to get where he is, he has had to go through his wife cheating and failed year 9 three times, has overcome drugs and attempted suicide. Also Eminem has lots of lyrical talent compared to other rappers, and when it comes to actually rapping he actually raps, there is also the fact that eminem doesn’t use auto tune to make him sound better he doesn’t need it.
Every single thing you stated hasn't been proven except the grammy amount in the description.
I want you to go into depth on all the factors and explain why that one factor is the one to determine (or group of factors to determine) the best rapper ever.
Before you go into this thinking I'm a coward playing this safe, know that I am probably the biggest rap expert on Earth ever to have existed. I know about flow, rhyme scheme intricacy, delivery, rep-building and measurement and all factors that can and will go into determining the greatest rapper of all time. Eminem is in the top 10, surely, but you need to prove that he's #1 and this is where I will drag you through the mud if you aren't on my level of rap-comprehension.
Good luck, you will need it.
First of all yes they have been proven, Eminem dose have a movie called the 8 Mile, Eminem’s wife did cheat on him and I fact left him due to them cheating, Eminem did take drugs he in fact he lost 5 years due to drugs, Eminem "wiped out five years" of his life with prescription drugs.
The 'Love the Way You Lie' rapper fought a battle with drug addiction which came to a head after his 2004 album 'Encore' which resulted in him taking five years off before making a comeback. The pills had a lot to do with it. Just wiping out brain cells. I don't know if it sounds like I'm making excuses, but the absolute truth is a lot of my memory is gone. I don't know if you've ever taken Ambien, but it's kind of a memory-eraser. That s**t wiped out five years of my life. ( https://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/news/eminem-lost-five-years-to-drugs-2372270.html ). For one I don’t think your the greatest rap expert ever sorry.
This issue of Grammies being equal to 'greatest rapper' as well as making a movie needs to be debunked right away.
You see, there is absolutely no way that the version of hierarchy is:
a) Grammy awards are given to one rapper most times, relative to all others.
b) If our system of analysing, believing and preferring a rapper over all others disagrees with the one who currently has the most Grammy awards, then we are incorrect unless the rapper is the one in 'a'.
It LITERALLY cannot be that way around and here is why:
a) There is first a system which Grammy awards ignore parts of and add parts to (such as populism) that have nothing to do with rapping at all.
b) If our system of reaching the greatest rapper of all time disagrees with the rapper who currently has the most Grammy awards, it means the Grammy awards system is faulty, not our system of getting to the best rapper unless this can be proven to be the faulty one.
How can you possibly default to the first algorithm? DO NOT DARE TRY IT Pro, you will defeat ALL OTHER PARTS of your debate and then lose anyway as it's so blatantly wrong to do!
So, what is this thing about autotune? Do you not realise that Eminem uses it and on top of that he 'invented' multi-voice rap synthesising. He ALWAYS needs assistant performers because this 'multiple voices effect' he uses on all his raps is impossible to do solo, even if he had the fitness to breathe well and perform solo it can't work such as here:
As for 'not using autotune' what exactly are you talking about? Eminem was among the single first rappers of all time to embrace autotune, it's just he preferred other synthesising methods to the typical 'ladida' yet used the 'ladida' nonetheless.
Let's give you the 'ladida' autotune that I'm sure is the type you're saying he doesn't use:
1:05 and all choruses of this song use autotune:
Sure, it's not him here singing that chorus but it's his song (no one is said to feature in it) and thus is him using autotune. He does, of course, use it himself ontop of this 'multi voice effect' and other things that enable him to yell nonstop on tracks but never ever is able to do it live (no human should, you'll end up with heavy metal performer rasp...
as early as 20 seconds in here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AqnCSdkjQ0
Autotune AND multi-voice effect both at once. That's a 2014 song by him too, not some 'oh he doesn't do that anymore' thing.
In this song [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJOsjP33nF4], in his verse(s) he's using subtle autotune the entire time bu tit begins to become blatant special effects at 1:06 onwards and such. He is also using his 'two voices at once yelling' effect that he likes to use in like 1 in 2 songs he makes (actually over 50%).
When you say he went through drugs and came out of it straight edge, what does that have to do with being a rapper? Like, really, why can't a rapper who still drinks from time to time or smokes weed or, hell, even does cocaine, be a brilliant rapper? You can say it doesn't fit your ideal person but the greatest rapper being the greatest person out of those who happen to be rappers implies either strange luck or that your system of judging rappers is biased to those you like as people and not their capacity at the rap industry as a career-pursuer, song production quality as a music artist or flow/poetry/delivery as an MC.
When it comes to delivery, Eminem is actually one of the single worst OUT OF the 'greats of all time'. If you were to line up all the GOATs that people could pick in the rap game, you'd find that other than Lil Wayne's squeaky voice or some really raspy rapper like Snak The Ripper, Eminem's nonstop "RAAAAAAA I'm UPSET WAAAAA I AM SO ANGRY OR SAD IN EVERY RAP I MAKE AND YOU WILL ALL HEAR IT IN HOW I STRAIN MY VOCAL CORDS" is arguably the single worst delivery style of all rapper WHO ARE NOT THEMSELVES bad at rap at all. I am not here taking the stance that Eminem isn't 'up there' with the greats, I am taking the stance that he's blatantly not #1 from many angles of rap where he's just 'good' but in DELIVERY, he's actually TERRIBLE and IRRITATING to the eardrum. He's only good enough at delivery if you're angry and sad (at the same time as the other emotion) beforehand and are seeking a song to make you feel empathised with.
Let me give you some examples of god tier delivery and what it entails. It's not about having a soothing voice alone, you can be a vicious masculine-voiced guy and deliver well to the eardrum, Eminem just chooses to go RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR in every single song:
Some pieces of god tier delivery (listen on Spotify Premium or YouTube Music if you can to hear in HD and hear in more detail how good the voice is being delivered on the track and amazing an instrument the rapper made their voice become without singing in and of itself):
Merkules & Snak The Ripper - "Move In Silence" (Official Audio)
Dax - "I'm Not Joyner Or Don Q" (Tory Lanez Diss) [Official Video]
Vinnie Paz "Blood on My Hands" - Official Video
Dax - "I'm Not Joyner Or Don Q" (Tory Lanez Diss) [Official Video]
Vinnie Paz "Blood on My Hands" - Official Video
That is powerful, god-tier delivery. It is not about having a tiny, soothing whispery voice it's about making the voice you NATURALLY have feel so natural and authentic as if it were an actual instrument in and of itself but NOT NEED to hit notes because your rap-flow and such blend with the delivery style so well that it doesn't require singing to be 'good'.
Eminem's weakest category is surely delivery and the rest he's not terrible at but one I feel he's mediocre at is the actual song itself. Sure, this is not actually directly the rapper but to be the 'greatest' the effort and time you spend on your actual track quality and elements other than your voice should matter. That's why it's a profession, not a hobby, to those involved with the career.
Let's analyse the issue with Eminem's consistently mediocre melodies and backtracks. They EITHER are 'good' because they are aggressive yelling that matches his style (such as in Love the way you Lie where Rihanna matched his rage and agony) but even then that's unpleasant to the ear drum overall... OR they are just so mediocre you know? Stuff that you're like 'how is a guy this Pro in the rap game making something with this kind of melody and quality, audibly?'
It's true that all rappers start off weaker in the melody and song-quality department than they end up (especially rappers more than singers as most rappers weren't that great at music but loved it and that's why despite not hitting notes they still went into a genre that requires minimalistic tone-comprehension) but while this is always a snowball, Eminem's increase is very minimalistic in this department and it's actually sad that the best sounding raps are probably his lyrically weakest ones.
I won't give examples, I challenge my opponent to find three songs (not 1 or 2, maybe 2 are exceptions but 3) that break my rule of either the song suiting him and being very 'yelling and angry' in sound or the melody just doesn't suit him and is annoying and unpleasant to listen to for a person trying to relax to some music and/or enjoy it.
What I will do, is display to you that you don't need to be an autotuned mumble rapper or terrible rapper who only focuses on tune, in order to consistently sound fantastic in your actual song's melody, fusing with the voice and pleasure to the ear drum. Let's give you some god-tier raps in THIS department which ARE ALSO very good in other departments of rap.
AGAIN, listen in HQ via Premium Spotify/YouTube-Music membership if you can to truly appreciate it.
Merkules x Lil Windex x Caspian x Evil Ebenezer - SDK Cypher 2018 #CanadianTour2018
What exactly is Eminem good at? Well, rhyming. No, not flow. Rhyming. This is a key aspect of his specialty which is love-hate. Do you enjoy flow in a rap that penetrates the ear and makes you orgasm from how smooth it is and slick it's pulled off at the sake of rhyme consistency and intellect in that department or do you adore rhyme specialists who sacrifice smooth, liquid flow for the strength of having mind-boggling rhyme consistency and intricacy in the alteration OF the rhyme scheme.
To be clear, you need to be very good at rhyming, by default, to be a god tier flower in rap but the reverse is untrue. The reason you don't need to be good at flow to be a good rhymer is because instead of mastering the art of picking good words that don't rhyme but sound similar enough syllable-amount-and/or-delivery-pressure-wise to enable more interesting flows over a melody/beat what rhyme specialists can do (and they almost always do) is to go 'if I make a lot more PER RHYME lines, it will enable me to rap faster over the parts that don't flow well to make it sound like it flows well'.
If you can't tell, I am a flow-preferrer at the sake of being a rhyme-preferrer. Let me give you examples of where it becomes quite blatant how little genuine flow... Rap god... The WHOLE SONG abuses the ability to rhyme often enough to speedy tempo to path parts that flow terribly, in fact his juttery style is how Eminem can rhyme words that noone else cane (like oranges with syringes with inches as well as words split in half). He is a master of saying words weird and/or wrong to rhyme better but flow worse.
His flow is jittery and that is de facto faulty flow as the point of 'flow' is to FLOW.
Let me show you the difference between rhyme specialists and flow specialists and how much more pleasing to the ear drum and brain a flow specialist is...
Rhyme Specialists with jittery flow at the sake of the rhymes - Anilyst, Eminem, Rittz, R.A. the Rugged Man and A-F-R-O
They use high tempo and constant rhymes to make it so they needn't strategise the non-rhyming parts and keep the words meaning all that much except for the rhyming puns. This style is efficient and can make a great like Em be the great specialist that they are but it is NOT equal to flow. It is inferior. I will explain why. The flow specialists strategise everything to have meaning that doesn't necessarily rhyme and will sooner spit what slides better over the beat while still meaning something sufficient grammatically and/or sentimentally to make the lines truly leave you in awe, ear-bliss and brain-soothing MMMMM I wanna MELT INTO THIS TRACK BABY!
Flow Specialists who sacrifice rhyme-scheme efficiency at times to achieve the liquid flow - Vinnie Paz, Madchild, Chris Webby, Tech N9ne and Devlin.
Eminem fan returns to the site 19 hours ago and reads the truth in pure terror and runs. Maybe he/she can go make an angry song about it and whine about their mother and ex-wife throwing shade on them at every possible moment.
There were 2 links I did wrong in the R2 post.
Two links were wron gin my first 'batch':
I'll fix it in the next Round.
"when it comes to actually rapping he actually raps."
If this tautology doesn't compel you, what will?
Eminem's girlfriend had an abortion. He lost my respect after that and I don't listen to his music anymore because of it. I encourage all pro lifers to do the same. Boycott Eminem.