Classical Liberals (Conservatives) and Liberals have the same ideology, it's just that one is a bit more "classical" and the other a bit more "liberal"
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A Classical liberal is basically a libertarian
Due to how the debate is titled, if there is merely one difference between classical liberals and liberals, then my side is the correct side.
Stance on Guns. Classical Liberals tend to want to legalize AK 47s. Liberals tend to want these banned
Stance on Economic freedom in general. Classical liberals tend to want the government out. Liberals want the government in to help poor people.
Stance on the Environment. Classical Liberals want less environment regulation. Liberals want more environment regulation.
-Stance on Affirmative Action. Classical Liberals want selectment on the basis of merit. Liberals want more racial diversity.
-Stance on Religious freedom. Classical Liberals support religious freedom for refusing to bake a cake for gay people. Liberals want to get the cake baker to bake the cake in the name of gay liberation.
Classical liberals and liberals have very different ideologies. One is more libertarian, the other has way more identity politics in it.
There are libertarian socialists buddy
Due to how the debate is titled, if there is merely one difference between classical liberals and liberals, then my side is the correct side.I am so fucking sick of the intellectual dishonesty and silly word games on this site. People who have the same ideology can disagree on things that aren't fundamental to that ideology.
All of the differences you pointed out do not change the simple fact that liberals and conservatives are both capitalists
So you're telling me the ones who want LESS liberal gun laws are more liberal?
Stance on Economic freedom in general. Classical liberals tend to want the government out. Liberals want the government in to help poor people.There is really an insignificant difference between libs and cons in this regard.
Stance on the Environment. Classical Liberals want less environment regulation. Liberals want more environment regulation.More environmental regulations means more economic freedom,
because it opens up the market to more clean and sustainable energy
-Stance on Affirmative Action. Classical Liberals want selectment on the basis of merit. Liberals want more racial diversity.Affirmative action is not universally agreed upon by liberals.
So one group of CLs cares more about religious liberty, the other cares more about gay liberty, what's the big whoop?
I was referring to the ideology between classical liberals and liberals. If there is as much as one non "classical" difference between them that I can point out, then I have won.
Most liberals and democrats favor socialism over capitalism
Yes. Liberal the way the left defines it in this context is, "freedom from mass shootings and from homicide". This means more restrictive gun laws.Democratic liberalism wants equality instead of freedom.
Pro immediately concedes that there is a non classical difference between classical liberals and liberals. Even if he negated it, it still exists.
The market has been open up for alternative energy for a long time. My house has solar panels on it. It's been a good investment, but it should not be forced upon anyone. Liberal politicians, like those in California, required every new house to have solar panels on it(4). The Classical liberal probably would have objected to this. The modern liberal would probably support the decision as what NBC did.
On the contrary, if there is one single thing that is "classical" about them then I have one.See how much of a dick you're being?
First of all a liberal/democrat is capitalist by definition
Second of all the source you provided claims that the majority of left leaning people view socialism as mostly positive, not that they prefer it to capitalism.
Right leaning CL's want the freedom to say (the hard n word) and posses murder weapons and left leaning CL's want the freedom to do drugs and murder their babies.
Democrats and Republicans are virtually the same thing, this is because they serve the same established order, the same ideology.
Social Democracy and hardcore right wing Libertarianism are considered fringe in America and do not count as classical liberalism.
they only care about profit, and thus their decisions are often worse for society and the environment than it is for them.
if there is so much as one similarity then I automatically win
it's about loosening the grip that wealthy investors have on the free market
The decision of whether or not we shit on the environment should not be made based on what is more profitable, because the rich will surely make the wrong decision for us and the right one for their purse.
For example, are shi'ite and sunni Muslims still both Muslims even though they have a few differences?
The reason I voted you down is clearly stated in my RfD.
You were claiming liberals and conservatives have basically the same ideology, with some differences attributed to being “a little more liberal or classical”. You made little attempt to illustrate that those differences are attributable to those reasons (and to be honest you didn’t even really provide any demonstration that the two “share ideology” either).
To win, you needed to do the following:
Define what a bit more “classical” was
Define what a bit more “liberal” was
Compare ideological similarities, preferably with specific examples (you sort of did this, but broadly and barely)
Show differences that are raised can be placed in the first two categories.
As you only did 0.5 of those 4 things, you lost this debate.
A lot of votes are because you have a history of forfeiting debates. The fact that you didn't forfeit is the reason why we tied that other debate and why your only behind by 4 points this time. Your getting better.
I don't publicly complain when there are votes against me. You shouldn't either.
You are clearly biased. Con literally thinks that any little difference whatsoever between two members of the same overall ideology makes them a different ideology. Making such a claim both constitutes poor conduct and an excessively shitty argument.
People like you shouldn't be allowed to vote because you are just an anti-intellectual douche and a troll. You are voting against me even though it is clear how intellectually dishonest my opponent was just because you are a partisan shill and nutsack gobbling dumpster goblin.
Not a great debate.
Con highlights a series of deviations between classical liberals (conservatives) and liberals: these include gun control, environment and religious freedom.
Pros response was to concede some of the differences exist, but they don’t matter: or to try and argue that the “liberals” are not acting liberal, or “classical liberals” are not acting classically liberal.
As con and pro both agreed on instances where there are deviations, it is incumbent on pro to show how those differences are merely one side being “a bit more liberal”, or “a bit more classical”. Pro doesn’t do this to any degree, and doesn’t appear to attempt to link his counter arguments to this rebuttal. He argues mostly that liberals are less liberal, classical liberals are the liberal side - and barely touches upon any of the contentions he needs to support.
As a result, while Alec did a poor job of dismantling this - he did enough to prove his burden, and pro was not able to match it.
Arguments to con.
“I am so fucking sick of the intellectual dishonesty and silly word games”
“your stupid assertion doesn't even make any sense from a purely grammatical standpoint.”
“See how much of a dick you're being?”
Pro was excessively rude and profane throughout, Con was not.
Conduct to con